Why is the Endocrine Society So Extreme?

[Sam]

The thing is these main stream western docs (endos). Keep pointing to points of view held by the Endocrinology Society etc.   they really seem to be brain washed and I wonder what it will take for them to even consider an alternative treatment protocol for their patients in the future.

[PeakT]

The thing is these main stream western docs (endos). Keep pointing to points of view held by the Endocrinology Society etc.   they really seem to be brain washed and I wonder what it will take for them to even consider an alternative treatment protocol for their patients in the future.

I cannot imagine them ever changing because their position is so extreme.  Basically, people will have to go to PCP's, urologists or pay out of pocket at HRT and anti-aging clinics.

Eventually, the results will be so startling from men on HRT that I think they'll have to change their position, but that's not going to happen anytime soon.

Plus, we may have some bumps along the road.  For example, there may be scarring issue with pellets and cardiovascular issues with topicals, etc.  But, personally, I have no doubt that they are going to find protocols that significantly improve men's health.

Here is what will have to happen:

1.  They need to find a protocol that works.  My guess is that the best is weekly injections with Arimidex if necessary to keep a man in the 20-30 range.
2.  They need to follow these men for years.
3.  They need to evaluate mortality.

If they can do this and show greatly improved cardiovascular profiles and no worsening of prostate cancer (which has already been done actually), then I think they'll have to give in. 

But who is going to do the above?  No one has a vested interest in creating an expensive protocol like the above.

Basically, what is going on is that men, when their testosterone goes up significantly, just FEEL better.  On average it is dramatic.  HRT is not a miracle cure as I always say, but it does greatly help.  Testosterone's insulin-lowering effect and brain-stimulating effects are worth it alone w/o even going into the improved sexual function.

I know one HRT clinic who follows a protocol similar to the above and they do not have to advertise.  They get clients just by word of mouth and, from what I have heard, the guys love it. 

There's nothing more miserable than low T and I will bet you that any endo with testosterone < 350 will be self-injecting cypionate by morning...

[Ken]

Peak,

Great Post!

Sign me up as a test subject for your study.  On weekly (150mg) injections and Arimidex.  Since I've only been on it for a couple of months now we can get some benchmarks and see how things look in a few years.  I imagine there are a number of guys on your forum here doing the same or very similar.

Love the line about Endo's under 350.  I've actually been telling this same assertion to buddies.  Both Endo's I saw were hardliners just as Samson points out.  Ultimately it took a PCP to get here and it is a GREAT place so far!

[PeakT]

Well, none of us has a crystal ball and they could find issue with HRT for certain subpopulations, so any guy int'd in HRT has to realize there are no guarantees and that he needs to work with a smart doc that is on top of the latest research and has some experience.

But there is no question in my mind that well done HRT helps a big percentage of low and lowish testosterone men.  The industry is just explosing right now and the reason is that it just works, at least in the short term.  Check out this link on how many executives are going for HRT just for the brain and career-enhancing properties it provides:

https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=780.msg6941#msg6941

[fixme]

Well, none of us has a crystal ball and they could find issue with HRT for certain subpopulations, so any guy int'd in HRT has to realize there are no guarantees and that he needs to work with a smart doc that is on top of the latest research and has some experience.

But there is no question in my mind that well done HRT helps a big percentage of low and lowish testosterone men.  The industry is just explosing right now and the reason is that it just works, at least in the short term.  Check out this link on how many executives are going for HRT just for the brain and career-enhancing properties it provides:

https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=780.msg6941#msg6941

It's amazing to me that a longitudinal medical study on this has not been undertaken.  There are plenty of medical research institutions (ie: stanford, harvard, ucsf) that, I assume, would be interested in this.  There are also probably millions of young men around the world interested in this. Peak, have you seen any studies about it? Seems to me that the funding for this kind of thing would be there.

[PeakT]

It's amazing to me that a longitudinal medical study on this has not been undertaken.  There are plenty of medical research institutions (ie: stanford, harvard, ucsf) that, I assume, would be interested in this.  There are also probably millions of young men around the world interested in this. Peak, have you seen any studies about it? Seems to me that the funding for this kind of thing would be there.

I don't think so and, to be honest, I'm glad.  The reasons are the fact that 1) usually estradiol is unmonitored and unmanaged and 2) there may be issues with the topicals per Samson't thread.  So I'm not sure HRT would be given a fair shake if done with a bad protocol.

But I find it very hard to believe the the results would be bad if you have any kind of decent HRT done.  HRT definitely helps with weight management, lowers insulin, lowers inflammation, unhardens arteries and improves mood.  All of these are going to be fantastic for heart disease assuming there's no other weird negativing factor such as high estradiol, etc. as I see it.  (And heart disease is the #1 killer in middle and senior age groups.)