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Author Topic: High cholesterol is good for you?  (Read 6208 times)

Sam

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High cholesterol is good for you?
« on: April 18, 2013, 04:13:33 am »
Anyone see these guys on Dr Oz.

http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/cholesterol-facts-vs-myths

Pretty controversial apparently but they say the main issue is inflammation and sugar not cholesterol by itself.   I think this is relevant to some of what we discuss relative to how healthy t levels can benefit cardiovascular risk

Sam

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Re: High cholesterol is good for you?
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2013, 04:16:48 am »
My wife and I DVR Dr. Oz, if anyone else does this is good one to watch I think.

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Re: High cholesterol is good for you?
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2013, 04:16:48 am »


PeakT

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Re: High cholesterol is good for you?
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2013, 04:26:32 am »
Anyone see these guys on Dr Oz.

http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/cholesterol-facts-vs-myths

Pretty controversial apparently but they say the main issue is inflammation and sugar not cholesterol by itself.   I think this is relevant to some of what we discuss relative to how healthy t levels can benefit cardiovascular risk

This is a monstrous subject that has been talked (and argued about) quite a bit on the forum.  I agree that cholesterol in and of itself it not the prime mover of heart disease.  However, here are a few things that that ignores:

--Most men with E.D. have significant endothelial dysfunction.  Yes, there are a few young guys with low T and little endothelial dysfunction and a few with pudendal nerver injuries, etc.  But, generally speaking, if you've lived in the West for long, you've hammered your arteries for years and years and are now paying the price.

--Given that that is true, the real goal is not just to survive.  The goal is to heal your arteries.  Some studies indicate that you're not going to clear out that plaque and heal without getting that LDL down nice and low.  Well, guess what?  LDL is related to cholesterol.  You can't have high cholesterol and low LDL.

--So, practically speaking, if you want to keep those arteries nice and clean and/or clear them out, you need low cholesterol.

You're pretty young Samson and so a Mediterranean Diet will work great for you.  Many middle-aged and senior men will not be so lucky.  They need to actually heal their arteries and reverse the damage.

There is also another very important reason that you don't want even medium cholesterol if you have endothelial dysfunction:  saturated fat slows down blood flow.  You give a middle aged guy with a lot of arteriosclerosis a bunch of saturated fat and he is going to be hurtin' that night.

Now what does saturated fat have to do with cholesterol?  Everything (in almost all men).  Saturated fat consumption is the #1 determiner of your cholesterol levels (and extra body fat).  So if you have medium or high cholesterol, I can pretty well know that you're consuming significant saturated fat.

And this goes back to something I point out:  it's always the young guys that like the idea of eating a lot of saturated fat.  They've got enough buffer built into their systems usually to handle it.

Young guys can drink heavily and still get an erection.  Young guys can eat a steak and still get an erection.  Aahh, those were the days...

But, if you've been low testosterone for a long time (and thus have significant arteriosclerosis) or have lived the typical Western lifestyle for decades, it's just not gonna be that easy.  You need to heal:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Clear_Your_Arteries
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 04:29:51 am by PeakT »
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
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And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

JackAndy

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Re: High cholesterol is good for you?
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2013, 05:52:24 am »
And this goes back to something I point out:  it's always the young guys that like the idea of eating a lot of saturated fat.  They've got enough buffer built into their systems usually to handle it.

Young guys can drink heavily and still get an erection.  Young guys can eat a steak and still get an erection.  Aahh, those were the days...

But, if you've been low testosterone for a long time (and thus have significant arteriosclerosis) or have lived the typical Western lifestyle for decades, it's just not gonna be that easy.  You need to heal:

If you eat a steak, you can't achieve an erection?
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Re: High cholesterol is good for you?
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2013, 05:52:24 am »


PeakT

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Re: High cholesterol is good for you?
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2013, 06:48:03 am »


If you eat a steak, you can't achieve an erection?

Look at this thread:

http://randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1575-the-ornish-myth.html

This guy, who is selling fat procedures I believe, tries to slam Ornish.  Now look below at what one of the readers wrote in response:

"I'm sad to see Randi effectively lumping Ornish (who, incidentally, Clinton credits with him still being alive) and presumably McDougall, Esselstyn, Barnard and Campbell in with his usual targets - frauds and fakers. These doctors (Cambpell is not a clinician) recommend a low-fat 'vegan' diet as best response to a host of diseases prevalent wherever a 'western diet' is the norm. They take the view that the body's own immune system is often able, if nourished effectively, to halt the progression of and even reverse conditions that conventional medicine regard as chronic and incurable - for example, diabetes (type 2), atherosclerosis. Instead of treatments (drugs - for life, with sometimes debilitating side-effects) or major surgery (usually with no survival benefit) these guys offer 'cures'. Guess what? This advice is all free - available from their websites. The success stories are rock-sold. Esselstyn's in particular are sensational! I owe my own life to the work of these pioneers. Two and a half years ago (at 5 I was crippled with angina and could not walk 20 feet without resting. Now I am virtually symptom free (if I eat bad I feel bad!) and work out enthusiastically at my local gym. My change of diet HAS saved my life and I feel better than I have in years. My BP is now normal - after years of being high, my bowel movements (sorry!) are better than ever and none of this advice has cost me a penny! (I must admit hat out of gratitude I have bought a few of their books!) i would have expected Randi to go after the guys who offer hope to desperate, vulnerable people and then end up doing them great harm - yes, I'm taking big pharma and the medical business. I know that Randi has had atherosclerosis-related surgical intervention and that he has great faith in 'conventional' medical approaches. He's a great guy and nobody can debunk a psychic fraud like he can but in this instance he's way off beam!"

I'm like the guy in this thread.  I feel that I owe my life to guys like Esselstyn, Ornish, Pritikin.  And, yes, I know that I owe my sex life to them as well.  Maybe I should send them flowers?
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 06:53:38 am by PeakT »
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Sam

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Re: High cholesterol is good for you?
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2013, 12:21:25 pm »
I think one of the take home messages of the episode was that LDL is bad, but what is really bad in terms of plaque forming is the small particle size.   Therefore rather than measuring cholesterol and using it as a predictor of heart disease doctors should really be using the APO a/b ratio test.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/541799

As a point of interest, I asked Kaiser to run this test on me and they said they didn't offer it. 

The Drs on the episode did focus on Trans-fats as bad and a diet in saturated fats is not necessarily bad.  They emphasized foods like Sardines, Wild Salmon and Grass Fed beef.   The real point however was controlling sugar and inflammation with things like pomegranate juice and turmeric.

They were also very much against Statins.

JackAndy

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Re: High cholesterol is good for you?
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2013, 03:22:36 pm »
I feel that I owe my life to guys like Esselstyn, Ornish, Pritikin.  And, yes, I know that I owe my sex life to them as well.  Maybe I should send them flowers?

You probably should do at least that.
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PeakT

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Re: High cholesterol is good for you?
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2013, 05:11:36 pm »
I think one of the take home messages of the episode was that LDL is bad, but what is really bad in terms of plaque forming is the small particle size.   Therefore rather than measuring cholesterol and using it as a predictor of heart disease doctors should really be using the APO a/b ratio test.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/541799

As a point of interest, I asked Kaiser to run this test on me and they said they didn't offer it. 

The Drs on the episode did focus on Trans-fats as bad and a diet in saturated fats is not necessarily bad.  They emphasized foods like Sardines, Wild Salmon and Grass Fed beef.   The real point however was controlling sugar and inflammation with things like pomegranate juice and turmeric.

They were also very much against Statins.

Small particle size is bad but there is evidence that larger particle sizes cause problems as well, although perhaps at a slower rate.

And, yes, I do agree by the way with the fact that if someone switches to pattern B as it is called, this is the really horrible state and it comes from refined carbs, etc. in the diet.

However, you can eat a Low Fat Diet - I don't know if anyone is interested - and still reverse diabetes as I talk about here:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Low_Fat_Diabetes

This allows you to clear your arteries and reverse diabetes (or prediabetes) which is incredible of course.

Furthermore, Bernard, in another study, showed that particle size was actually decrease on a low fat low glycemic diet.  The key is the low glycemic.

So imo there's a lot of misinformation out there.  Many health gurus promote the idea that Low Fat is bad because it will shift someone to pattern B.  However, that is clearly not the case as long as you are not eating a bunch of refined carbs and/or fructose.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

haole

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Re: High cholesterol is good for you?
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2013, 05:37:14 pm »
That's sort of been my approach for the past few months.  My carbs aren't necessarily super low, but I can remember the last time I exceeded 25 grams of carbs at one meal.  All of my carbs come from either fruit, barley, or sweet potatoes.  The wife and I will have an occasional bowl of ice-cream (once every 2 weeks or so), but even with that we pick one of the brands that uses simple ingredients.

PeakT

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Re: High cholesterol is good for you?
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2013, 06:08:29 pm »
That's sort of been my approach for the past few months.  My carbs aren't necessarily super low, but I can remember the last time I exceeded 25 grams of carbs at one meal.  All of my carbs come from either fruit, barley, or sweet potatoes.  The wife and I will have an occasional bowl of ice-cream (once every 2 weeks or so), but even with that we pick one of the brands that uses simple ingredients.

Gotcha.  So are you trying to go quasi-Mediterranean?  What's your strategy?  And are you guys concerned about your lipid profiles?  What's your take on all of this?
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

PeakT

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Re: High cholesterol is good for you?
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2013, 10:22:22 pm »
Just want to add yet another story for those who might be interested in the power of lowering their LDL from this link:

http://www.pritikin.com/home-the-basics/about-pritikin/38-nathan-pritikin.html

"In 1975, Nathan Pritikin opened the Pritikin Longevity Center® in California, a health resort and residential program of nutrition, exercise, and lifestyle-change education. In 1977, the television news program 60 Minutes followed three men, all with severe heart disease, as they attended the one-month program at the Center. 60 Minutes also conducted extensive interviews with Nathan Pritikin and Dr. David Lehr, a cardiologist from the Miami Heart Institute, who monitored the three men. All three patients improved dramatically. Their angina (chest pain) disappeared. They eliminated virtually all their medications. Their cholesterol, triglycerides, and blood pressures fell into normal, risk-free ranges. And, much to their joy, they regained the energy, the vitality, that allowed them to resume the lives and occupations they loved.

One year later, in 1978, 60 Minutes revisited the three men and found that all three had continued to enjoy active, vigorous lives free of the symptoms of heart disease."

Pritikin, Esselstyn, etc. stumbled onto gold and these kind of stories are widely enjoyed by Low Fat men who suffer from cardiovascular disease and endothelial dysfunction.

Also, I may be about the only interested in this, but Pritikin actually found the exact amount of animal protein that he could put in his diet without raising his cholesterol per this link:

http://hpjmh.com/2013/01/30/pritikin-college-dropout-who-couldve-won-the-nobel-prize/

"Pritikin talks casually about how he was diagnosed with heart disease at age 40 with a total cholesterol reading of nearly 300. He talks about how he used his own body as somewhat of a lab and, using a low-fat vegetarian diet, was able to reduce his cholesterol down to about 100.

When he re-introduced animal protein into his diet, the cholesterol went back up, so he eliminated it again—bringing his cholesterol back down to 100. Then he experimented by adding small amounts of protein for a period of time and measuring exactly what happened.""
« Last Edit: April 20, 2013, 10:29:44 pm by PeakT »
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

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Re: High cholesterol is good for you?
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2013, 10:22:22 pm »