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Author Topic: Are my doctors morons?  (Read 2558 times)

Forty2

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Are my doctors morons?
« on: November 06, 2017, 02:39:15 pm »
I've consulted with 2 doctors, who supposedly have many years experience in the field of andrology. One of the them was an endo and the other a GP who specializes in male hormones.
When the GP tested my E2, it was well below the bottom of the normal reference range for an adult male. When I asked him if this is a concern, he said "we only worry about estradiol that is too high".
The endo did not test estradiol at all. When I asked him why, he said he only tests for it if he suspects it is too high. He also did not think having estradiol that is too low to be a matter of concern.
When I asked the "male hormone specialist" GP why he does not test for DHT, he said "that's a pro hormone. It's a hormone that eventually gets converted to testosterone. I can test for it if you like, but normally I only test for testosterone". I even said "dihydrotestosterone", just so he didn't confuse it with DHEA, which he obviously did lol.
Finally, when I suggested adding hCG as a way of increasing my estradiol level, he said "no that won't work. Generally hCG doesn't increase estradiol".
Are both doctors wrong about everything?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 03:28:03 pm by Forty2 »

Cataceous

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Re: Are my doctors morons?
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2017, 06:01:06 pm »
Unfortunately, this kind of experience is not unusual. And yes, they are wrong about these things.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG ~30 nmol/L

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Re: Are my doctors morons?
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2017, 06:01:06 pm »


Joe Sixpack

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Re: Are my doctors morons?
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2017, 06:38:24 pm »
Yep.  This is typical.  Spend a few months reading the posts here at this site and you will end up knowing more than most doctors who prescribe TRT. 
Age: 55, Ht: 5'08", Wt: 155 lbs
Protocol: 25 mg T Cyp + 25 IU HCG M,W,F + 2 clicks T Cream + 15mg DHEA + 15mg Pregnenalone daily.
12/2018 test results: TT: 1054 ng/dL (264-916), FT: 17.2 pg/mL (7.2-24), E2: 21.6 pg/mL sensitive (8.0-35.0)

PeakT

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Re: Are my doctors morons?
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2017, 08:08:02 pm »
However, moron is definitely not the right word:  they are best and brightest academically.  I think this is a sober reminder for all of us how Groupthink, biases and lack of Fact Checking can lead us down the wrong path.  It can happen to any of us.  I don't really get angry at ignorance - even from very smart people.  What makes me angry is at what I consider to be cruelty by some doctors towards their patients. 

Anyway, the real lesson to be learned in all of this is that, while you don't need to go to med school, you do need to know enough to not get ripped off or, worse, actually hurt by someone in the medical profession.  Learn as much as you reasonably can - it's well worth the time.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 09:35:09 am by PeakT »
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program.aspx
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

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Re: Are my doctors morons?
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2017, 08:08:02 pm »


Sean Mosher

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Re: Are my doctors morons?
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2017, 01:01:03 pm »
That's what makes forums like these so essential, critical and beneficial.
Going in armed with information, ready to work hand in hand with your doctor and not solely relying on their "expertise."
Like PeakT said, it's the ignorance in this area that's the tragedy.
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beetz

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Re: Are my doctors morons?
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2017, 01:42:49 pm »
I went to a hormone clinic with a 70+yr old urologist who decided to take on TRT in retirement. 

He prescribed me 50mg ed of clomid, and when asked about a sensitive e2 test he said no dr. would ever run that on anyone but a teenage girl.

That was my 2nd and last visit with him.

Dr Justin Saya, MD

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Re: Are my doctors morons?
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2017, 02:00:02 pm »
I went to a hormone clinic with a 70+yr old urologist who decided to take on TRT in retirement. 

He prescribed me 50mg ed of clomid, and when asked about a sensitive e2 test he said no dr. would ever run that on anyone but a teenage girl.

That was my 2nd and last visit with him.

Sigh...
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Dr Justin Saya, MD

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Re: Are my doctors morons?
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2017, 02:01:02 pm »
That's what makes forums like these so essential, critical and beneficial.
Going in armed with information, ready to work hand in hand with your doctor and not solely relying on their "expertise."
Like PeakT said, it's the ignorance in this area that's the tragedy.

Indeed. Becoming your own (educated) health advocate is a very worthwhile endeavor.
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NOTE: Comments on this forum are NOT medical advice and are no substitute for individualized patient care. Comments on this forum do not constitute or establish a physician-patient relationship. Please consult your personal physician prior to initiating or changing ANY treatment regimen.

PeakT

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Re: Are my doctors morons?
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2017, 07:01:53 pm »
I went to a hormone clinic with a 70+yr old urologist who decided to take on TRT in retirement. 

He prescribed me 50mg ed of clomid, and when asked about a sensitive e2 test he said no dr. would ever run that on anyone but a teenage girl.

That was my 2nd and last visit with him.

The PCP I was going to - it was his PA - had no clue about the post-injection curve for cypionate - I was on weekly injections at the time.  And I asked the nurse about possibly getting some HCG, and she thought it was a steroid.  Right after - thank God and Mother Nature! - I found Dr. Saya!
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program.aspx
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Dr Justin Saya, MD

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Re: Are my doctors morons?
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2017, 09:22:17 pm »
I went to a hormone clinic with a 70+yr old urologist who decided to take on TRT in retirement. 

He prescribed me 50mg ed of clomid, and when asked about a sensitive e2 test he said no dr. would ever run that on anyone but a teenage girl.

That was my 2nd and last visit with him.

The PCP I was going to - it was his PA - had no clue about the post-injection curve for cypionate - I was on weekly injections at the time.  And I asked the nurse about possibly getting some HCG, and she thought it was a steroid.  Right after - thank God and Mother Nature! - I found Dr. Saya!

I like that one - thank God AND Mother Nature...she often doesn't get proper credit lol  :)
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NOTE: Comments on this forum are NOT medical advice and are no substitute for individualized patient care. Comments on this forum do not constitute or establish a physician-patient relationship. Please consult your personal physician prior to initiating or changing ANY treatment regimen.

PeakT

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Re: Are my doctors morons?
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2017, 09:37:15 pm »


I like that one - thank God AND Mother Nature...she often doesn't get proper credit lol  :)

You may not remember this - don't know how you could - but I would not have tried DHEA again if it wasn't for you.  And what a difference that has made.  That was actually personality altering - been a huge help.  I don't know whether I told you at work, but my boss actually noticed at work and commented.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program.aspx
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

beetz

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Re: Are my doctors morons?
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2017, 08:22:10 am »


I like that one - thank God AND Mother Nature...she often doesn't get proper credit lol  :)

You may not remember this - don't know how you could - but I would not have tried DHEA again if it wasn't for you.  And what a difference that has made.  That was actually personality altering - been a huge help.  I don't know whether I told you at work, but my boss actually noticed at work and commented.

I've not studied much on DHEA, is this one of those supplements we should all be taking or is there a blood test to determine if levels are inadequate?  I'll start reading up on it but just curious as to your thoughts.

Cataceous

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Re: Are my doctors morons?
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2017, 08:43:26 am »
I've not studied much on DHEA, is this one of those supplements we should all be taking or is there a blood test to determine if levels are inadequate?  I'll start reading up on it but just curious as to your thoughts.

Yes, there's an inexpensive blood test for DHEA-S, which acts as the reservoir for DHEA. You can go by this number in deciding whether to supplement.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG ~30 nmol/L

beetz

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Re: Are my doctors morons?
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2017, 01:14:21 pm »
I've not studied much on DHEA, is this one of those supplements we should all be taking or is there a blood test to determine if levels are inadequate?  I'll start reading up on it but just curious as to your thoughts.

Yes, there's an inexpensive blood test for DHEA-S, which acts as the reservoir for DHEA. You can go by this number in deciding whether to supplement.

I actually just went and looked at bloodwork drawn in May of this year and my Dr pull my DHEA level which was 268ug/dl and ranges were 89-427ug/dl.

Cataceous

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Re: Are my doctors morons?
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2017, 01:22:08 pm »
I actually just went and looked at bloodwork drawn in May of this year and my Dr pull my DHEA level which was 268ug/dl and ranges were 89-427ug/dl.

Your number is close to mine with supplementation. I wouldn't consider it a high priority, though you will find some advocating for numbers closer to the top of the range.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG ~30 nmol/L

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Re: Are my doctors morons?
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2017, 01:22:08 pm »