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Author Topic: Testosterone cream produced good T levels but low estradiol & anxiety  (Read 1637 times)

Forty2

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I've been using a 10% compounded testosterone cream at a dose of just 0.5g applied every morning to the inside of my forearms.
After I was on the cream for 5 weeks, I had a blood test done 24 hours after application. Just this very small amount of cream got me to 700 ng/dl, but my estradiol was only 11 pg/ml. This is exactly the same estradiol level that I had when my TT was less than 300 ng/dl.
Why do you think my estradiol has not increased at all? How do I increase my estradiol?
I've also been having a lot of anxiety. Any idea why?
Thanks.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 09:22:45 pm by PeakT »

Cataceous

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Re: Testosterone cream produced good T levels but low estradiol & anxiety
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2017, 06:27:54 pm »
Perhaps you have naturally low levels of aromatase. I'd definitely be concerned about bone health at that low level of estradiol. The surest way to increase it is directly with estradiol cream. But that may not be so easy to come by. Next best method is by using hCG, which directly stimulates aromatization in Leydig cells. There's a persistent Internet rumor that high doses of DHEA raise estradiol, but there are studies showing this certainly isn't the case in men with normal HPTAs, and I'm not aware of concrete evidence of such an effect in men on TRT.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 09:22:55 pm by PeakT »
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG ~30 nmol/L

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: Testosterone cream produced good T levels but low estradiol & anxiety
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2017, 06:27:54 pm »


Forty2

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Re: Testosterone cream produced good T levels but low estradiol & anxiety
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2017, 09:51:15 pm »
Perhaps you have naturally low levels of aromatase. I'd definitely be concerned about bone health at that low level of estradiol. The surest way to increase it is directly with estradiol cream. But that may not be so easy to come by. Next best method is by using hCG, which directly stimulates aromatization in Leydig cells. There's a persistent Internet rumor that high doses of DHEA raise estradiol, but there are studies showing this certainly isn't the case in men with normal HPTAs, and I'm not aware of concrete evidence of such an effect in men on TRT.

Thanks. Will hCG increase serum estradiol levels or just intratesticular aromatization? What do you think would be the best dose of hCG to start with? 100iu ED? Is it best to take hCG in the morning at the same time as I apply the cream, or at night before bed?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 09:23:12 pm by PeakT »

Cataceous

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Re: Testosterone cream produced good T levels but low estradiol & anxiety
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2017, 06:57:31 am »
... Will hCG increase serum estradiol levels or just intratesticular aromatization? What do you think would be the best dose of hCG to start with? 100iu ED? Is it best to take hCG in the morning at the same time as I apply the cream, or at night before bed?

hCG will increase serum estradiol, but I'm not sure what the dose-response curve looks like. If you don't mind frequent injections then 100 IU ED is a reasonable starting protocol. Personally I didn't find any differences between ED and EOD injections, and plenty guys do fine with twice-weekly dosing. Morning administration seems to be preferred, but I'm not aware of any rigorous attempts to prove this is objectively better than other times. In short, take it when it's convenient, but if you perceive it to be stimulating then opt for mornings. As an aside, the half life is about a day and a half, and the boost in testosterone occurs in that time frame also.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 09:23:24 pm by PeakT »
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG ~30 nmol/L

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: Testosterone cream produced good T levels but low estradiol & anxiety
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2017, 06:57:31 am »


Forty2

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Re: Testosterone cream produced good T levels but low estradiol & anxiety
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2017, 06:26:57 pm »
... Will hCG increase serum estradiol levels or just intratesticular aromatization? What do you think would be the best dose of hCG to start with? 100iu ED? Is it best to take hCG in the morning at the same time as I apply the cream, or at night before bed?

hCG will increase serum estradiol, but I'm not sure what the dose-response curve looks like. If you don't mind frequent injections then 100 IU ED is a reasonable starting protocol. Personally I didn't find any differences between ED and EOD injections, and plenty guys do fine with twice-weekly dosing. Morning administration seems to be preferred, but I'm not aware of any rigorous attempts to prove this is objectively better than other times. In short, take it when it's convenient, but if you perceive it to be stimulating then opt for mornings. As an aside, the half life is about a day and a half, and the boost in testosterone occurs in that time frame also.

Thanks. Just a couple more questions, if you don't mind. When I had my blood test taken exactly 24 hours after my test cream application, TT came back at 700 ng/dl. What would you guess my peak testosterone level would be and how long after application would I hit my peak level?
Also approximately how much do you think 100iu hCG ED will increase my TT by (if at all)?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 09:23:34 pm by PeakT »

Cataceous

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Re: Testosterone cream produced good T levels but low estradiol & anxiety
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2017, 07:21:21 pm »
... When I had my blood test taken exactly 24 hours after my test cream application, TT came back at 700 ng/dl. What would you guess my peak testosterone level would be and how long after application would I hit my peak level?
Also approximately how much do you think 100iu hCG ED will increase my TT by (if at all)?

This is just guesswork, of course. If we assume your cream application is comparable to 5g Androgel @ 1% then we'd look at the serum concentrations in this document, and look at the "Day 30" curve because it's closest to your five weeks, then we see a peak of ~700 ng/dL at two hours post-application, followed by a trough at four hours, and then a gradual rise to ~600 ng/dL at 24 hours. If the many assumptions hold then your peak is 7/6 * 700 ng/dL = ~820 ng/dL and is two hours post-application.

And a guess for the increase in TT by 100 IU hCG ED is 50-150 ng/dL,
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 09:23:44 pm by PeakT »
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG ~30 nmol/L

PeakT

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Re: Testosterone cream produced good T levels but low estradiol & anxiety
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2017, 09:24:38 pm »
I've been using a 10% compounded testosterone cream at a dose of just 0.5g applied every morning to the inside of my forearms.
After I was on the cream for 5 weeks, I had a blood test done 24 hours after application. Just this very small amount of cream got me to 700 ng/dl, but my estradiol was only 11 pg/ml. This is exactly the same estradiol level that I had when my TT was less than 300 ng/dl.
Why do you think my estradiol has not increased at all? How do I increase my estradiol?
I've also been having a lot of anxiety. Any idea why?
Thanks.

I would pull the number again to double check.  The test isn't that expensive even if you pull it  yourself:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/testosterone_labs.aspx
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program.aspx
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

HRD LVN

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Re: Testosterone cream produced good T levels but low estradiol & anxiety
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2017, 09:59:05 pm »
I've been using a 10% compounded testosterone cream at a dose of just 0.5g applied every morning to the inside of my forearms.
After I was on the cream for 5 weeks, I had a blood test done 24 hours after application. Just this very small amount of cream got me to 700 ng/dl, but my estradiol was only 11 pg/ml. This is exactly the same estradiol level that I had when my TT was less than 300 ng/dl.
Why do you think my estradiol has not increased at all? How do I increase my estradiol?
I've also been having a lot of anxiety. Any idea why?
Thanks.
Did you check your prolactin when you checked your E2?
Are you using the E2 sensitive test? If not that maybe why it's measuring the same there is just that much error in the old test.

On your question about how much T would HCG give you. If you can get your balls working with HCG why would they not produce at least as much as you measured when the doc said you are hypogonadal? What was your pre TRT  Total T ?

Forty2

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Re: Testosterone cream produced good T levels but low estradiol & anxiety
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2017, 03:10:35 am »
I've been using a 10% compounded testosterone cream at a dose of just 0.5g applied every morning to the inside of my forearms.
After I was on the cream for 5 weeks, I had a blood test done 24 hours after application. Just this very small amount of cream got me to 700 ng/dl, but my estradiol was only 11 pg/ml. This is exactly the same estradiol level that I had when my TT was less than 300 ng/dl.
Why do you think my estradiol has not increased at all? How do I increase my estradiol?
I've also been having a lot of anxiety. Any idea why?
Thanks.
Did you check your prolactin when you checked your E2?
Are you using the E2 sensitive test? If not that maybe why it's measuring the same there is just that much error in the old test.

On your question about how much T would HCG give you. If you can get your balls working with HCG why would they not produce at least as much as you measured when the doc said you are hypogonadal? What was your pre TRT  Total T ?

Yes it was the sensitive estradiol test, but it was done in Australia, which obviously has different labs than the US.
My prolactin was in the low normal range when I had it tested before going on TRT.
I tried hCG about a decade ago just for 3 weeks because my doc at the time refused to leave me on it longer than that. It worked very well at a dose of 500iu eod. It got me to near the top of the normal reference range.
My TT before TRT was around 300. Clomid more than doubled it at 12.5mg eod, but the side effects were horrible, so I quit it and started the cream.
I now have enclomiphene citrate in my possession, so plan to give that a try and if it fails, I will go back to test cream with hCG added.
I'm unsure why I'm getting so much anxiety on the test cream. Could it be that my DHT is too high?

Forty2

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Re: Testosterone cream produced good T levels but low estradiol & anxiety
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2017, 03:13:35 am »
I've been using a 10% compounded testosterone cream at a dose of just 0.5g applied every morning to the inside of my forearms.
After I was on the cream for 5 weeks, I had a blood test done 24 hours after application. Just this very small amount of cream got me to 700 ng/dl, but my estradiol was only 11 pg/ml. This is exactly the same estradiol level that I had when my TT was less than 300 ng/dl.
Why do you think my estradiol has not increased at all? How do I increase my estradiol?
I've also been having a lot of anxiety. Any idea why?
Thanks.

I would pull the number again to double check.  The test isn't that expensive even if you pull it  yourself:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/testosterone_labs.aspx

Thanks, Peak. Unfortunately I'm in Australia and there are no private labs here to my knowledge. I have to justify to a doctor why I want any tests done, which can be difficult.

Forty2

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Re: Testosterone cream produced good T levels but low estradiol & anxiety
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2017, 03:14:23 am »
... When I had my blood test taken exactly 24 hours after my test cream application, TT came back at 700 ng/dl. What would you guess my peak testosterone level would be and how long after application would I hit my peak level?
Also approximately how much do you think 100iu hCG ED will increase my TT by (if at all)?

This is just guesswork, of course. If we assume your cream application is comparable to 5g Androgel @ 1% then we'd look at the serum concentrations in this document, and look at the "Day 30" curve because it's closest to your five weeks, then we see a peak of ~700 ng/dL at two hours post-application, followed by a trough at four hours, and then a gradual rise to ~600 ng/dL at 24 hours. If the many assumptions hold then your peak is 7/6 * 700 ng/dL = ~820 ng/dL and is two hours post-application.

And a guess for the increase in TT by 100 IU hCG ED is 50-150 ng/dL,

Ok thanks, Cataceous.

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: Testosterone cream produced good T levels but low estradiol & anxiety
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2017, 03:14:23 am »