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Author Topic: After 5+ years why doesnt TRT feel androgenic for me anymore????  (Read 5560 times)

Oldbull

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When I started on the gels in 2012 I noticed I felt hungier, stronger, more energy, and more drive to accomplish my goals.
I went back to school completed an mba got a kickass job and I felt like I had life by the horns.

The gels stopped working for me around 2014, so I tried switching to injections, and same thing they worked for about a year after much tweaking then again same thing, i lost all benefits. Tried pellets. Tried Beta Hcg. Tried patches.

Well I am back on the gels only and it barely feels like anything.

NO hunger.
NO viality or energy.
NO muscle mass.
NO drive.
NO alpha feeling.

The only reason I take it is it is SLIGHTLY better than being off treatment. Not by a lot.

Is this androgen resistance after awhile on T?

What other causes could it be? My endocronoloigst has no idea. I have flown out to see Dr Mariano and he has no idea.

At this point its like well, i have no idea either.

I stopped trying to figure it out until recently and just kept slathering the gel on but its like there MUST be a reason for this.

Some other facts about myself:

My thyroid is fine
I have low SHBG
I am SLIGHTLY pre-diabetic (but still within range)
Gels worked really well for a few years
Injections make me moody
I started TRT at 30 with a total T of 270ng/dl
I tried to come off TRT earlier this year and my natty T was around 200ng/dl so i decided that wasnt liveable.


If anyone has any ideas i would appreciate it. It's driving me crazy that it used to work and now it doesnt. If it NEVER worked then it would be like ok it never worked but i KNOW what good feels like and now I cant seem to get back to that feeling.

HRT Guru

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Re: After 5+ years why doesnt TRT feel androgenic for me anymore????
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2018, 05:04:51 pm »
No labs? No divulging what doses you've been using...you said a lot here but then there's nothing to work with.

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Re: After 5+ years why doesnt TRT feel androgenic for me anymore????
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2018, 05:04:51 pm »


billsman

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Re: After 5+ years why doesnt TRT feel androgenic for me anymore????
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2018, 05:07:26 pm »
I've been on TRT for almost 20 years.   The tx doesn't feel as potent as it once did.  But, what is the normal drive for someone in his late 40s?   

What I'm saying is that TRT won't stop age. 

cujet

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Re: After 5+ years why doesnt TRT feel androgenic for me anymore????
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2018, 05:44:31 pm »
I'm 54 and have been on TRT, on and off for 2 decades. I prefer the compounded cream applied as noted in my signature. I've gotten older and I absolutely do not feel like the robust high energy man I was at 30 when this shit started. However, I work out regularly, I've put a lot of effort into maintaining my strength as I have an autoimmune disease that absolutely saps energy and strength. At my age, I don't feel like taking life by the horns. I feel like going to work, doing my job, and trying to take some time off to do the projects I've put off for the last 20 years. Heck even fixing the water softener taxes my strength and endurance now.

HOWEVER, the topical testosterone compounded cream drives my libido into orbit. I think about sex all day long, talk to the women when ever possible and greatly annoy my wife with my "requests". I've learned to live with it and remain faithfully married. While my capability may not be what it was when I was young, I remain every bit as interested as ever. And yes, I feel like, and am glad to be, a man.

Getting older is part of life and I'm not sure how much of my decline is age, how much is autoimmune and how much is somehow related to other issues I have (there are many) .
55 years old
Autoimmune Hashimoto's, near zero natural T production
Cause: severe mononucleosis in my early 30's
Weight 200
Height 5' 10"
190mg NPthyroid (natural dessicated pigs thyroid)
Labs (Oct 2017) , my T=730, TSH 0.03, T3+T4 mid-range normal.
 
Currently not using T of any sort due to low cortisol

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Re: After 5+ years why doesnt TRT feel androgenic for me anymore????
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2018, 05:44:31 pm »


Oldbull

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Re: After 5+ years why doesnt TRT feel androgenic for me anymore????
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2018, 06:35:50 pm »
I've been on TRT for almost 20 years.   The tx doesn't feel as potent as it once did.  But, what is the normal drive for someone in his late 40s?   

What I'm saying is that TRT won't stop age.

Its not just ageing though. It stopped providing all the benefits it used to.

Oldbull

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Re: After 5+ years why doesnt TRT feel androgenic for me anymore????
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2018, 06:40:02 pm »
I'm 54 and have been on TRT, on and off for 2 decades. I prefer the compounded cream applied as noted in my signature. I've gotten older and I absolutely do not feel like the robust high energy man I was at 30 when this shit started. However, I work out regularly, I've put a lot of effort into maintaining my strength as I have an autoimmune disease that absolutely saps energy and strength. At my age, I don't feel like taking life by the horns. I feel like going to work, doing my job, and trying to take some time off to do the projects I've put off for the last 20 years. Heck even fixing the water softener taxes my strength and endurance now.

HOWEVER, the topical testosterone compounded cream drives my libido into orbit. I think about sex all day long, talk to the women when ever possible and greatly annoy my wife with my "requests". I've learned to live with it and remain faithfully married. While my capability may not be what it was when I was young, I remain every bit as interested as ever. And yes, I feel like, and am glad to be, a man.

Getting older is part of life and I'm not sure how much of my decline is age, how much is autoimmune and how much is somehow related to other issues I have (there are many) .


Thats the thing using the gels the first few years my libido was INSANE.

That is totally gone.
But also the energy and vitality and the hunger (appetite) and strength in gym etc ettc

I've done tons of labs and everything except slightly high blood sugar comes up normal.

Here are my labs:

Pituitary Function
Follicle Stimulating Hormone [FSH]
2.0
1.0-8.0
IU/L
Luteinizing Hormone [LH]
2.6
1.0-7.0
IU/L
Reproductive and Gonadal
Estradiol
52
<162
pmol/L
    
NOTE: Fulvestrant has been shown to interfere
with estradiol testing by this direct
immunoassay. Results for patients taking
this medication may be falsely elevated to
a clinically-significant degree.

Some steroidal aromatase inhibitors are
structurally related to estradiol and may
interfere with some direct immunoassays.
Testosterone
15.3
8.4 - 28.8
nmol/L
    Total Testosterone levels may not reflect the
biologically-active testosterone when SHBG levels
are abnormal.
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin
15.6
10.0 - 70.0
nmol/L
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 06:42:52 pm by Oldbull »

Oldbull

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Re: After 5+ years why doesnt TRT feel androgenic for me anymore????
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2018, 06:43:14 pm »
My current protocol is Testim gel 2X per day with occasional serm use.

Cataceous

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Re: After 5+ years why doesnt TRT feel androgenic for me anymore????
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2018, 07:07:14 pm »
Throwing out some thoughts: I forget if we mentioned this before, but that estradiol is low (~14 pg/mL), maybe even more so because the test is immunoassay-based. Have you monitored DHT at all? Have you measured DHEA-S and/or tried supplementing with DHEA? Pregenolone? Experimented with any of the neurotransmitter boosters, such as those mentioned by JustAskin?
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG ~30 nmol/L

Oldbull

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Re: After 5+ years why doesnt TRT feel androgenic for me anymore????
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2018, 07:16:19 pm »
Throwing out some thoughts: I forget if we mentioned this before, but that estradiol is low (~14 pg/mL), maybe even more so because the test is immunoassay-based. Have you monitored DHT at all? Have you measured DHEA-S and/or tried supplementing with DHEA? Pregenolone? Experimented with any of the neurotransmitter boosters, such as those mentioned by JustAskin?

DHEA does seem to be low but when ive tried oral DHEA it makes me feel worse.

Dehydroepiandrosterone [DHEA-S] 5.7
< 15.0 umol/L


Oldbull

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Re: After 5+ years why doesnt TRT feel androgenic for me anymore????
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2018, 07:17:50 pm »
Throwing out some thoughts: I forget if we mentioned this before, but that estradiol is low (~14 pg/mL), maybe even more so because the test is immunoassay-based. Have you monitored DHT at all? Have you measured DHEA-S and/or tried supplementing with DHEA? Pregenolone? Experimented with any of the neurotransmitter boosters, such as those mentioned by JustAskin?

I have tried supplementing with both DHEA and Preg (oral for both) and they make me feel estrogenic and anxiety.

However, my DHEA-s does seem to be low. Could that cause symptoms? Or is that symptomatic of another issue?

Cataceous

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Re: After 5+ years why doesnt TRT feel androgenic for me anymore????
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2018, 07:43:04 pm »
I have tried supplementing with both DHEA and Preg (oral for both) and they make me feel estrogenic and anxiety.

However, my DHEA-s does seem to be low. Could that cause symptoms? Or is that symptomatic of another issue?

Let me relate my experience with pregnenolone: I tried supplementing with 15 mg in the evenings on two separate occasions. Each time I experienced uncomfortable anxiety. Recently I started taking 7.5 mg each morning, this time with good results. Nothing related to sexual function, but markedly better motivation.

Around when I started TRT I also began supplementing DHEA. If I've converted the units right, my DHEA-S had also been lowish, around where yours is now. I can't say for sure which improvements came from DHEA, but I do think it helped reduce anxiety and raise libido. As with pregnenolone, this was not with a large dose. Taking 6.25 mg twice a day boosts my levels to midrange.

The main takeaway here is that sometimes the standard doses of supplements are much higher than necessary, and can even cause problems rather than solve them.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG ~30 nmol/L

Dr. John Crisler

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Re: After 5+ years why doesnt TRT feel androgenic for me anymore????
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2018, 08:17:05 pm »
You just need the 50,000 mile tune up.

Time to kick the tires!
Physician in Age Management Medicine private practice. www.DrJohnCrisler.com

NOTE: Comments on this forum are NOT medical advice and are no substitute for individualized patient care. Please consult your personal physician prior to initiating or changing ANY treatment regimen.

Boxcar

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Re: After 5+ years why doesnt TRT feel androgenic for me anymore????
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2018, 10:49:17 pm »
I have had a similar experience, except that I am not worsening over time.  I just have good days and bad days.  The good days are really obvious -- deeper voice, better confidence, socializing and even public speaking are effortless.

I tried topical DHT, to no effect.  Diet seems to have some impact, although it is inconsistent.  There is some research indicating that IGF-1 and insulin activate androgen receptors.  This is from cancer research, so I don't know if it is applicable here.  But there is some suggestion that growth hormone and IGF-1 are associated with a greater sense of well-being. 

Has your muscle mass changed over time?  You mention being slightly pre-diabetic, so I wonder if there is something metabolic going on.

I am also low in DHEA, but anything over 5 mg starts to give me sleep issues.  So I plan to give topical DHEA a shot.  In addition to helping with mood, DHEA is also supposed to have metabolic benefits.  I am also getting cortisol checked out.

Age: 36
178 lbs 5'8''

Current Treatment: 50 mg testosterone cypionate IM, twice a week
Low T Symptoms: Chronic pelvic pain, and other neuropathic pain.  Mild anxiety, low energy and low motivation
Meds: Amitriptyline (for pain, not depression), Clonidine (for sleep, not blood pressure)

Forty2

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Re: After 5+ years why doesnt TRT feel androgenic for me anymore????
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2018, 11:14:09 pm »
When I started on the gels in 2012 I noticed I felt hungier, stronger, more energy, and more drive to accomplish my goals.
I went back to school completed an mba got a kickass job and I felt like I had life by the horns.

The gels stopped working for me around 2014, so I tried switching to injections, and same thing they worked for about a year after much tweaking then again same thing, i lost all benefits. Tried pellets. Tried Beta Hcg. Tried patches.

Well I am back on the gels only and it barely feels like anything.

NO hunger.
NO viality or energy.
NO muscle mass.
NO drive.
NO alpha feeling.

The only reason I take it is it is SLIGHTLY better than being off treatment. Not by a lot.

Is this androgen resistance after awhile on T?

What other causes could it be? My endocronoloigst has no idea. I have flown out to see Dr Mariano and he has no idea.

At this point its like well, i have no idea either.

I stopped trying to figure it out until recently and just kept slathering the gel on but its like there MUST be a reason for this.

Some other facts about myself:

My thyroid is fine
I have low SHBG
I am SLIGHTLY pre-diabetic (but still within range)
Gels worked really well for a few years
Injections make me moody
I started TRT at 30 with a total T of 270ng/dl
I tried to come off TRT earlier this year and my natty T was around 200ng/dl so i decided that wasnt liveable.


If anyone has any ideas i would appreciate it. It's driving me crazy that it used to work and now it doesnt. If it NEVER worked then it would be like ok it never worked but i KNOW what good feels like and now I cant seem to get back to that feeling.

Oldbull aka Tyler81? :)

Oldbull

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Re: After 5+ years why doesnt TRT feel androgenic for me anymore????
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2018, 07:51:21 am »
Let me relate my experience with pregnenolone: I tried supplementing with 15 mg in the evenings on two separate occasions. Each time I experienced uncomfortable anxiety. Recently I started taking 7.5 mg each morning, this time with good results. Nothing related to sexual function, but markedly better motivation.

Around when I started TRT I also began supplementing DHEA. If I've converted the units right, my DHEA-S had also been lowish, around where yours is now. I can't say for sure which improvements came from DHEA, but I do think it helped reduce anxiety and raise libido. As with pregnenolone, this was not with a large dose. Taking 6.25 mg twice a day boosts my levels to midrange.

The main takeaway here is that sometimes the standard doses of supplements are much higher than necessary, and can even cause problems rather than solve them.

Thanks. It's worth a shot.

Are you taking oral preg and dhea or topical?

Which supplement do you personally find gave you the most noticeable benefit? I will start with that one. Thanks!

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Re: After 5+ years why doesnt TRT feel androgenic for me anymore????
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2018, 07:51:21 am »