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Author Topic: Why not just a multivitamin and a good diet?  (Read 4053 times)

kcrunner

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Why not just a multivitamin and a good diet?
« on: January 14, 2018, 03:34:02 pm »
Its very common on here (and all over the internet for that matter) for members to post about different vitamin and mineral supplements.  Why not just take a good multivitamin, couple that will a quality whole foods diet, and call it good?   

For example, I take a multi every morning.   Just a plain old Men's One A Day.   I also track everything I eat in myfitnesspal and eat a strict whole foods diet.   

Nutrients for yesterday:

Protein:  193 grams
Carbohydrates:  285 grams.
Fat:  98 grams
Fiber:  58 grams

Vitamin A:  361 grams
Vitamin C:  795 grams
Calcium: 145 grams
Iron:  93 grams

Also, tons of Vitamin K from spinach.

Most of that all coming from my diet.   You can easily get in excess of 500 grams of Vitamin C a day just from a good diet.  It seems to me that if a person needs to supplement vitamin C, their diet is lacking.   The same is true with fiber, calcium, vitamin A, vitamin K, and the B vitamins (unless you are vegan). 

So anyway, someone help me out here, because maybe I am missing something.   What is the point of vitamin and mineral supplementation beyond just a good diet and maybe a multi?
Age: 43
Height: 6,1
Weight: 180
Total Testosterone: 829 ng/dl
Free Testosterone: 22 ng/dl
Current Meds:  Levothyroxine 175mcg, Testosterone Cyp Intra-Muscular 100 mg every 5 days.
Supplements-
Multivitamin
Magnesium
Vitamin D
B Complex
Fish Oil

Pennywise09

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Re: Why not just a multivitamin and a good diet?
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2018, 03:53:47 pm »
Its very common on here (and all over the internet for that matter) for members to post about different vitamin and mineral supplements.  Why not just take a good multivitamin, couple that will a quality whole foods diet, and call it good?   

For example, I take a multi every morning.   Just a plain old Men's One A Day.   I also track everything I eat in myfitnesspal and eat a strict whole foods diet.   

Nutrients for yesterday:

Protein:  193 grams
Carbohydrates:  285 grams.
Fat:  98 grams
Fiber:  58 grams

Vitamin A:  361 grams
Vitamin C:  795 grams
Calcium: 145 grams
Iron:  93 grams

Also, tons of Vitamin K from spinach.

Most of that all coming from my diet.   You can easily get in excess of 500 grams of Vitamin C a day just from a good diet.  It seems to me that if a person needs to supplement vitamin C, their diet is lacking.   The same is true with fiber, calcium, vitamin A, vitamin K, and the B vitamins (unless you are vegan). 

So anyway, someone help me out here, because maybe I am missing something.   What is the point of vitamin and mineral supplementation beyond just a good diet and maybe a multi?
I take a one a day multi and fish oil (with omega 3s). The fish oil only because I donít eat fish everyday, donít care for walnuts or soybeans. I agree, a good healthy diet with foods enriched with all your nutrients and there is no need to take other supplements. Only if you have a deficiency in a vitamin and itís recommended by a doctor.
Age: 34 Height: 6í Weight :195
Protocol: Test Cyp 50mg every 3.5 days
Weight lift 5 days a week

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Re: Why not just a multivitamin and a good diet?
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2018, 03:53:47 pm »


Cataceous

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Re: Why not just a multivitamin and a good diet?
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2018, 04:05:08 pm »
Should edit that post so vitamins are in milligrams and not grams.

I agree about having a good diet, but I'd argue more the opposite on supplementation. Avoid the multivitamins, which are pretty useless, and concentrate on items you're likely to be deficient in, if any.

Quote
With three new studies finding that a daily multivitamin won't help boost the average American's health, the experts behind the research are urging people to abandon use of the supplements.

The studies found that popping a daily multivitamin didn't ward off heart problems or memory loss, and wasn't tied to a longer life span.
https://www.webmd.com/vitamins-and-supplements/news/20131216/experts-dont-waste-your-money-on-multivitamins
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 60, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 154 lbs
Protocol: 3.2 mg TE subQ qd, 2.4 mg TP subQ qd, 20 mcg GnRH subQ 5.25x/d, 6.25 mg DHEA bid, 12.5 mg enclomiphene qod
Approximate levels (peak): TT: 700 ng/dL, E2: 30 pg/mL, DHEA-S: 300 ug/dL, SHBG: 30 nMol/L

Mr.L

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Re: Why not just a multivitamin and a good diet?
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2018, 04:29:52 pm »
Should edit that post so vitamins are in milligrams and not grams.

I agree about having a good diet, but I'd argue more the opposite on supplementation. Avoid the multivitamins, which are pretty useless, and concentrate on items you're likely to be deficient in, if any.

Quote
With three new studies finding that a daily multivitamin won't help boost the average American's health, the experts behind the research are urging people to abandon use of the supplements.

The studies found that popping a daily multivitamin didn't ward off heart problems or memory loss, and wasn't tied to a longer life span.
https://www.webmd.com/vitamins-and-supplements/news/20131216/experts-dont-waste-your-money-on-multivitamins

so in your opinion you shouldn't give your kids a multi?

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Re: Why not just a multivitamin and a good diet?
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2018, 04:29:52 pm »


PeakT

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Re: Why not just a multivitamin and a good diet?
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2018, 04:43:52 pm »
Its very common on here (and all over the internet for that matter) for members to post about different vitamin and mineral supplements.  Why not just take a good multivitamin, couple that will a quality whole foods diet, and call it good?   

For example, I take a multi every morning.   Just a plain old Men's One A Day.   I also track everything I eat in myfitnesspal and eat a strict whole foods diet.   

Nutrients for yesterday:

Protein:  193 grams
Carbohydrates:  285 grams.
Fat:  98 grams
Fiber:  58 grams

Vitamin A:  361 grams
Vitamin C:  795 grams
Calcium: 145 grams
Iron:  93 grams

Also, tons of Vitamin K from spinach.

Most of that all coming from my diet.   You can easily get in excess of 500 grams of Vitamin C a day just from a good diet.  It seems to me that if a person needs to supplement vitamin C, their diet is lacking.   The same is true with fiber, calcium, vitamin A, vitamin K, and the B vitamins (unless you are vegan). 

So anyway, someone help me out here, because maybe I am missing something.   What is the point of vitamin and mineral supplementation beyond just a good diet and maybe a multi?

This definitely CAN work with the exception of Vitamin D for most of us.  However, my comment is this:  don't ASSUME it will work.  If you feel good, it probably is working of course.  But you can't assume that a even a well done whole foods diet will put you in good territory for a number of reasons.  This is why I always say, if you have the money, PROVE it is working.  Go to a good dietician and get proper testing.  Or get Spectracell and possibly hair testing and make sure your nutrient levels are what they think they are.  (Pulling ferritin and homocysteine can also give clues.)

So why do I say you can assume that a good diet and a multi?

Here are just a few reasons:

a) An epidemic of undiagnosed stomach and gut issues.   Here is just a partial list:  low stomach acid, H Pylori, Crohn's, diverticulitis, celiac, IBS, leaky gut, SIBO. 

b) Soil depletion.  Modern soils often are low in magnesium and other nutrient levels, i.e. they aren't going to match what is your app's database.

c) Very few men have your level of discipline.  Very few guys are going to enter everything into MY Fitness Pal and check to see if they are doing well.

d) Multivitamins do not deliver as many vitamins as you might think.  Most of them are highly compressed and it is difficult for the body to break them fully apart.  They have competing minerals (copper/zinc, calcium/magnesium). 

So I agree with your strategy (except for Vitamin D).  However, I think you should test if you can afford it and make sure that it is performing as you think it is and that your gut is as healthy as you think it is. 
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Cataceous

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Re: Why not just a multivitamin and a good diet?
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2018, 05:24:07 pm »
so in your opinion you shouldn't give your kids a multi?

I don't think I would unless their diets were pretty bad.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 60, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 154 lbs
Protocol: 3.2 mg TE subQ qd, 2.4 mg TP subQ qd, 20 mcg GnRH subQ 5.25x/d, 6.25 mg DHEA bid, 12.5 mg enclomiphene qod
Approximate levels (peak): TT: 700 ng/dL, E2: 30 pg/mL, DHEA-S: 300 ug/dL, SHBG: 30 nMol/L

sh1209

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Re: Why not just a multivitamin and a good diet?
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2018, 01:25:20 am »
There are several studies out there stating that not only do multivitamins provide no real benefit, but in fact cause harm in some cases. Vitamins such as A and E can definitely cause harm and selenium is tied to risk of prostate cancer. I firmly believe thereís  no substitution for a well rounded diet.

PeakT

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Re: Why not just a multivitamin and a good diet?
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2018, 01:34:31 am »
There are several studies out there stating that not only do multivitamins provide no real benefit, but in fact cause harm in some cases. Vitamins such as A and E can definitely cause harm and selenium is tied to risk of prostate cancer. I firmly believe thereís  no substitution for a well rounded diet.

This is another great point:

a) Alphatocopherol will lower gamma - bad idea.

b) Folic acid is not natural and some research shows it may increase the risk of cancer, because it is not broken down well in the liver. 

The devil is always in the details.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: Why not just a multivitamin and a good diet?
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2018, 01:34:31 am »