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Author Topic: DHEA + arimidex. Vs testosterone injections + arimidex  (Read 10818 times)

Sam

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DHEA + arimidex. Vs testosterone injections + arimidex
« on: May 06, 2013, 11:45:09 am »
If one is looking to boost t levels and limit estrogen conversion,  would option 1 be as effective and less costly and more convenient?

PeakT

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Re: DHEA + arimidex. Vs testosterone injections + arimidex
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2013, 01:44:30 pm »
If one is looking to boost t levels and limit estrogen conversion,  would option 1 be as effective and less costly and more convenient?

I don't think DHEA gives you a big boost in testosterone.  It can, in some men, give a nice boost to libido though.  But I've never seen anything to indicate that DHEA could solve a hypogonadal problems.

And, if it did, it would be hot topic in the fertility/bodybuilding forums.

This could fit in with your "tweaking and tuning" philosophy though.  Perhaps if you make 10 small improvements, you'll be in good territory?

Let me know if you find out anything different...
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

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Re: DHEA + arimidex. Vs testosterone injections + arimidex
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2013, 01:44:30 pm »


Sam

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Re: DHEA + arimidex. Vs testosterone injections + arimidex
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2013, 05:54:13 pm »
This could fit in with your "tweaking and tuning" philosophy though.  Perhaps if you make 10 small improvements, you'll be in good territory?

I feel like I've been put in a box :-)

It was kind of a question that came froma suggestion in Dr. Shames book and the discussion on HCG only therapy.   The biggest argument against DHEA seems to be the possibility that the preferred pathway is towards cortisol although I dont have any evidence to prove this.

What if,  the argument against DHEA is just a big conspriacy on the part of the T clinics since they cannot make tons of money off of a non-controlled substance and there was a way to use it more effectively.  What about Pregnenolone + DHEA combined with natural estrogen blockers like Chrysin.

Maybe just Pregenolone since DHEA seems to have more negative side effects from long term use associated with it?

Just crossing my t's and dotting i's.

399

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Re: DHEA + arimidex. Vs testosterone injections + arimidex
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2013, 06:17:23 pm »
you can get your dhea levels tested in a home test.  why not find out if it is low first before deciding whether to take it?  my guess is in people with low dhea supplementing it would help, but if its not low you probably risk side effects and perhaps extra cortisol and estradiol with no real benefits

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Re: DHEA + arimidex. Vs testosterone injections + arimidex
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2013, 06:17:23 pm »


PeakT

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Re: DHEA + arimidex. Vs testosterone injections + arimidex
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2013, 06:46:56 pm »
This could fit in with your "tweaking and tuning" philosophy though.  Perhaps if you make 10 small improvements, you'll be in good territory?

I feel like I've been put in a box :-)

It was kind of a question that came froma suggestion in Dr. Shames book and the discussion on HCG only therapy.   The biggest argument against DHEA seems to be the possibility that the preferred pathway is towards cortisol although I dont have any evidence to prove this.

What if,  the argument against DHEA is just a big conspriacy on the part of the T clinics since they cannot make tons of money off of a non-controlled substance and there was a way to use it more effectively.  What about Pregnenolone + DHEA combined with natural estrogen blockers like Chrysin.

Maybe just Pregenolone since DHEA seems to have more negative side effects from long term use associated with it?

Just crossing my t's and dotting i's.

I put you in a good category - not box mind you.  You are thinking this out MUCH more than most other guys do and that's a good thing.  You only got one shot at all this and nobody is really gonna watch out for you, eh?

But, going to your q's, you may not be a video guy, but the functional medicine doctor's video discusses this in an unbiased manner:

https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1353.msg12972#msg12972

This doc was not pro-HRT - quite the opposite actually.

There's no conspiracy from HRT clinics about DHEA:  I've read that commentary on a wide variety of sites.  Again, if you want the functional med docs video, it becomes much more apparent as he maps out all the different pathways.

And 399 is right:  from what I've seen, no one works with DHEA unless you're low.  You'll have to let me know if the adrenal guys think differently though?
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

davie12

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Re: DHEA + arimidex. Vs testosterone injections + arimidex
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2013, 02:08:38 pm »
This thread couldn't have been more applicable to me. My personal story is in another thread, but essentially a course of antibiotics + a plant sterol supplement I was taking alterered my hormones and a heavy exercise session caused some kind of adrenal crash. I'm improving a lot with HCG and recently was prescribed Arimidex. I'm now at total T at 543 with high Esradiol (74) which I'm working on lowering right now. Anyway, back to the adrenal fatigue point I wanted to ask...at my 1st blood panel back in January when this happened, I pointed out the elevated cortisol...it was definitely out range and was a late afternoon reading in the 20s (should be in the teens at the most) and this was 2 weeks after the adrenal "incident" happened so presumably it was higher even before. A few days ago I asked for additional tests in my bloodwork other than the standard half dozen tests my urologist orders. One of them was DHEA which was very low 94ng/dl (ref range 61-1636) and keep in mind this is after 4 months of some adrenal healing. I feel absolutely certain after reading about adrenal fatigue that this phenomenon applies to me. The hormonal cascade is Cholesterol->Pregnenolone -> DHEA -> Testosterone -> E2 & DHT. I could probably use some stimulus on the adrenal side of the equation to help improve testosterone. Is a DHEA supplement one of those things that require lifetime treatment like T or do people cycle on and off of it? (Incidentally, I am moving over to be a patient of Dr Shippen who is more open minded on these types of things, as my current urologist seems to think I'm out there when I bring up adrenal issues as a partial cause of my problems.)
Recovering from adrenal fatigue through Paleo diet+exercise+vitamins/supplements; formerly used HCG & Clomid at various dosages

PeakT

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Re: DHEA + arimidex. Vs testosterone injections + arimidex
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2013, 05:20:53 pm »
This thread couldn't have been more applicable to me. My personal story is in another thread, but essentially a course of antibiotics + a plant sterol supplement I was taking alterered my hormones and a heavy exercise session caused some kind of adrenal crash. I'm improving a lot with HCG and recently was prescribed Arimidex. I'm now at total T at 543 with high Esradiol (74) which I'm working on lowering right now. Anyway, back to the adrenal fatigue point I wanted to ask...at my 1st blood panel back in January when this happened, I pointed out the elevated cortisol...it was definitely out range and was a late afternoon reading in the 20s (should be in the teens at the most) and this was 2 weeks after the adrenal "incident" happened so presumably it was higher even before. A few days ago I asked for additional tests in my bloodwork other than the standard half dozen tests my urologist orders. One of them was DHEA which was very low 94ng/dl (ref range 61-1636) and keep in mind this is after 4 months of some adrenal healing. I feel absolutely certain after reading about adrenal fatigue that this phenomenon applies to me. The hormonal cascade is Cholesterol->Pregnenolone -> DHEA -> Testosterone -> E2 & DHT. I could probably use some stimulus on the adrenal side of the equation to help improve testosterone. Is a DHEA supplement one of those things that require lifetime treatment like T or do people cycle on and off of it? (Incidentally, I am moving over to be a patient of Dr Shippen who is more open minded on these types of things, as my current urologist seems to think I'm out there when I bring up adrenal issues as a partial cause of my problems.)

I'll let Sam answer the adrenal stuff - he's very well read on all of that - but one comment:

My opinion is that DHEA won't do much for your testosterone and is not really a viable option to repair low T if that is what you are saying.  It does boost libido and mood in some men, though, and so can be of assistance for some guys.  My impression is that the anti-aging docs only recommend it if you are deficient, i.e. quite low.  And so, in that case, I have not heard of anyone cycling it. 
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Sam

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Re: DHEA + arimidex. Vs testosterone injections + arimidex
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2013, 06:15:31 pm »
I think you can cycle dhea if you want.   Dhea isnt controlled by a feedback loop.  Here is an excerpt from anther site.


http://www.info-dhea.com/dhea_uk.htm

Will taking DHEA supplements suppress my natural DHEA production?
The production of most steroids in the body is controlled by a feedback loop. When hormone levels get too high, the body makes less of it, and when hormone levels are too low, the body makes more. However, DHEA is an exception to this rule. Preliminary studies do not seem to indicate a feedback loop for DHEA. It is suggested that small supplement DHEA dosage will not stop our body’s natural DHEA production. However, supplementation with high DHEA dosages and for a long period could have an influence in the body’s natural DHEA production.

While I am low testosterone, and low/normal dhea,  i have been trying to address some of my fatigue and brain fog issues with pregnenolone and dhea.   Pregnenolone at 30mg/day clears up my brain fog completely while 60mg/day gave me some weird vision side effects.   Things were blurry at times so i backed back down to 30mg and seem to be fine with it.   pregnenolone by itslef did very little for my mid day fatigue but adding dhea did help with that.   I still completely crap out around 8pm and need a good 8 hours of sleep every night but the dhea makes a difference for me with daytime energy.


As i posted earlier,  the roller coaster ride i am on has. Ade me sign up for trt and i am hoping this stabalizes things

davie12

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Re: DHEA + arimidex. Vs testosterone injections + arimidex
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2013, 06:43:07 pm »
Peak & Sam: Thanks for that input. I have read in other places where DHEA & pregnenolone are not part of the feedback loop so direct supplementation won't affect that. I also see that correcting adrenal issues can be months or over a year of work. I'm hoping that I can piece together a combo treatment of both alternative & conventional medicine...ie. DHEA, Vit D, etc. supplementation with continued HCG treatment. I never had low T before all of this so I don't know if my axis can be repaired or at least reset to homeostasis. I did notice another guy on this website was prescribed DHEA by Dr. Shippen (who I'll be seeing in July). I suppose I'm following your ideology of "tweaking & tuning" and making 10 different endocrine "repairs" to see if I can get myself back in business.
Recovering from adrenal fatigue through Paleo diet+exercise+vitamins/supplements; formerly used HCG & Clomid at various dosages

Sam

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Re: DHEA + arimidex. Vs testosterone injections + arimidex
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2013, 07:24:39 pm »
I found good success with Dr. Shames approach from the book, feeling fat fuzzy and frazzled.   

Vitamin C, b5,b6, licorice root, adrenal cortex supplement + the basics, fish oil, multi v, vit d,

PeakT

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Re: DHEA + arimidex. Vs testosterone injections + arimidex
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2013, 07:40:06 pm »
I suppose I'm following your ideology of "tweaking & tuning" and making 10 different endocrine "repairs" to see if I can get myself back in business.

Sounds super interesting.  Keep us posted!

Where'd you get the idea for this?  Is it a home brew?
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: DHEA + arimidex. Vs testosterone injections + arimidex
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2013, 07:40:06 pm »