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Author Topic: I think I crashed me E2. What can I do now?  (Read 6962 times)

gimmeabreak

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I think I crashed me E2. What can I do now?
« on: February 20, 2018, 11:01:12 pm »
 Im not 100 percent sure yet but I'm fairly certain I took too much arimidex and crashed my E2.  I will be getting bloodwork on Thursday to confirm.

 So I've been under a lot of stress lately and I think I accidentally took too much arimidex.  I haven't felt this awful since before I started trt.   I've never experienced brain fog like this. Feels like I have not slept in days even though I'm sleeping through the night. And I have a twitch in my  left eye which is driving me absolutely crazy.

 Just wondering in the event that it is a crash of  E2, is there anything I can do to recover more quickly?

 What kind of timeline am I looking at to bounce back?
39 years old/ 180lbs.


April 2016 - 50mg test cypionate 2x week
                - 250 iu HCG eod
                - 25 mg DHEA daily
               
Sleep apnea - CPAP

- Former natural physique competitor
- switched from weightlifting to gymnastics in January 2016
- diet: some what paleo based. Lots of veggies, no sugar, no grains, fish, chicken, beef. (I use wild, grass fed, free range and hormone free whenever possible)

Dr. John Crisler

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Re: I think I crashed me E2. What can I do now?
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2018, 02:35:32 am »
Most guys will jump right back up again....as if they just missed a dose of AI.

I have heard cases where someone more ominous occurred, and things never got right again. Dr. Shippen told me one time about a guy who took a single 1mg tablet of Arimidex, and was trashed for a very long time. It's similar to the dreaded Post Finasteride Syndrome (PFS). Perhaps some epigenetic effect.

But please rest assured, such cases are extremely rare.
Physician in Age Management Medicine private practice. www.DrJohnCrisler.com

NOTE: Comments on this forum are NOT medical advice and are no substitute for individualized patient care. Please consult your personal physician prior to initiating or changing ANY treatment regimen.

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Re: I think I crashed me E2. What can I do now?
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2018, 02:35:32 am »


Mr.L

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Re: I think I crashed me E2. What can I do now?
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2018, 02:53:11 am »
Im not 100 percent sure yet but I'm fairly certain I took too much arimidex and crashed my E2.  I will be getting bloodwork on Thursday to confirm.

 So I've been under a lot of stress lately and I think I accidentally took too much arimidex.  I haven't felt this awful since before I started trt.   I've never experienced brain fog like this. Feels like I have not slept in days even though I'm sleeping through the night. And I have a twitch in my  left eye which is driving me absolutely crazy.

 Just wondering in the event that it is a crash of  E2, is there anything I can do to recover more quickly?

 What kind of timeline am I looking at to bounce back?

Mine was down to 16. I know that isn't super low for everyone but it was for me. I felt terrible mentally and physically. Everything was an end of the world big deal and all of my joints hurt. I was told to simply DC the AI for one week and that was all it took. I felt better that week and was back to normal in less than 2. Then I started a lower dose. How did you end up taking too much? I have tried to take it to control symptoms but I have decided that I am not very good at knowing the difference between high and low E2. I guess some guys can but I just never know for sure and am constantly doubting myself. I have decided that a lab is the only way for me to know for sure what is going on with it. Good luck man.   

gimmeabreak

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Re: I think I crashed me E2. What can I do now?
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2018, 03:02:21 am »
Most guys will jump right back up again....as if they just missed a dose of AI.

I have heard cases where someone more ominous occurred, and things never got right again. Dr. Shippen told me one time about a guy who took a single 1mg tablet of Arimidex, and was trashed for a very long time. It's similar to the dreaded Post Finasteride Syndrome (PFS). Perhaps some epigenetic effect.

But please rest assured, such cases are extremely rare.

Thanks for the reassurance Dr. Crisler. Iím going on day 6 of feeling like hell. Letís hope itís over soon!

Im not 100 percent sure yet but I'm fairly certain I took too much arimidex and crashed my E2.  I will be getting bloodwork on Thursday to confirm.

 So I've been under a lot of stress lately and I think I accidentally took too much arimidex.  I haven't felt this awful since before I started trt.   I've never experienced brain fog like this. Feels like I have not slept in days even though I'm sleeping through the night. And I have a twitch in my  left eye which is driving me absolutely crazy.

 Just wondering in the event that it is a crash of  E2, is there anything I can do to recover more quickly?

 What kind of timeline am I looking at to bounce back?

Mine was down to 16. I know that isn't super low for everyone but it was for me. I felt terrible mentally and physically. Everything was an end of the world big deal and all of my joints hurt. I was told to simply DC the AI for one week and that was all it took. I felt better that week and was back to normal in less than 2. Then I started a lower dose. How did you end up taking too much? I have tried to take it to control symptoms but I have decided that I am not very good at knowing the difference between high and low E2. I guess some guys can but I just never know for sure and am constantly doubting myself. I have decided that a lab is the only way for me to know for sure what is going on with it. Good luck man.

Iíve been under a lot of stress lately and working absurd hours at work. I normally take my AI on the same day as my injections. I thought I forgot to take it so I took a second dose. Iím still not 100 percent sure but itís the only thing I can think of. I havenít felt this way since pre trt. It feels like I havenít slept in days even though Iím sleeping every night. So hard to concentrate and no ambition to do anything right now. Just completely numb.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 03:04:07 am by gimmeabreak »
39 years old/ 180lbs.


April 2016 - 50mg test cypionate 2x week
                - 250 iu HCG eod
                - 25 mg DHEA daily
               
Sleep apnea - CPAP

- Former natural physique competitor
- switched from weightlifting to gymnastics in January 2016
- diet: some what paleo based. Lots of veggies, no sugar, no grains, fish, chicken, beef. (I use wild, grass fed, free range and hormone free whenever possible)

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Re: I think I crashed me E2. What can I do now?
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2018, 03:02:21 am »


Mr.L

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Re: I think I crashed me E2. What can I do now?
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2018, 03:24:26 am »
Most guys will jump right back up again....as if they just missed a dose of AI.

I have heard cases where someone more ominous occurred, and things never got right again. Dr. Shippen told me one time about a guy who took a single 1mg tablet of Arimidex, and was trashed for a very long time. It's similar to the dreaded Post Finasteride Syndrome (PFS). Perhaps some epigenetic effect.

But please rest assured, such cases are extremely rare.

Thanks for the reassurance Dr. Crisler. Iím going on day 6 of feeling like hell. Letís hope itís over soon!

Im not 100 percent sure yet but I'm fairly certain I took too much arimidex and crashed my E2.  I will be getting bloodwork on Thursday to confirm.

 So I've been under a lot of stress lately and I think I accidentally took too much arimidex.  I haven't felt this awful since before I started trt.   I've never experienced brain fog like this. Feels like I have not slept in days even though I'm sleeping through the night. And I have a twitch in my  left eye which is driving me absolutely crazy.

 Just wondering in the event that it is a crash of  E2, is there anything I can do to recover more quickly?

 What kind of timeline am I looking at to bounce back?

Mine was down to 16. I know that isn't super low for everyone but it was for me. I felt terrible mentally and physically. Everything was an end of the world big deal and all of my joints hurt. I was told to simply DC the AI for one week and that was all it took. I felt better that week and was back to normal in less than 2. Then I started a lower dose. How did you end up taking too much? I have tried to take it to control symptoms but I have decided that I am not very good at knowing the difference between high and low E2. I guess some guys can but I just never know for sure and am constantly doubting myself. I have decided that a lab is the only way for me to know for sure what is going on with it. Good luck man.

Iíve been under a lot of stress lately and working absurd hours at work. I normally take my AI on the same day as my injections. I thought I forgot to take it so I took a second dose. Iím still not 100 percent sure but itís the only thing I can think of. I havenít felt this way since pre trt. It feels like I havenít slept in days even though Iím sleeping every night. So hard to concentrate and no ambition to do anything right now. Just completely numb.

Yeah that sucks man. I wouldn't think one extra dose would drop you that low but I don't really know.  I do know E2 and AIs can be tricky and frustrating though.  Hopefully you get it figured out soon. It usually takes a week to get your lab results on the sensitive test so you will have to hold on for dear life.

Simeoni

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Re: I think I crashed me E2. What can I do now?
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2018, 09:26:09 am »
Your serum levels should bounce back in a matter of 1-2 weeks. From what Ive seen the low e2 symptoms might linger on a bit longer. Everyone is different but it might take as long as 4-8 weeks.

I suggest you keep your dose steady and do not take any drastic measures - like reintroducing an ai - without pulling labs first.

Im not 100 percent sure yet but I'm fairly certain I took too much arimidex and crashed my E2.  I will be getting bloodwork on Thursday to confirm.

 So I've been under a lot of stress lately and I think I accidentally took too much arimidex.  I haven't felt this awful since before I started trt.   I've never experienced brain fog like this. Feels like I have not slept in days even though I'm sleeping through the night. And I have a twitch in my  left eye which is driving me absolutely crazy.

 Just wondering in the event that it is a crash of  E2, is there anything I can do to recover more quickly?

 What kind of timeline am I looking at to bounce back?

Krataios

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Re: I think I crashed me E2. What can I do now?
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2018, 11:30:04 am »
Im not 100 percent sure yet but I'm fairly certain I took too much arimidex and crashed my E2.  I will be getting bloodwork on Thursday to confirm.

 So I've been under a lot of stress lately and I think I accidentally took too much arimidex.  I haven't felt this awful since before I started trt.   I've never experienced brain fog like this. Feels like I have not slept in days even though I'm sleeping through the night. And I have a twitch in my  left eye which is driving me absolutely crazy.

 Just wondering in the event that it is a crash of  E2, is there anything I can do to recover more quickly?

 What kind of timeline am I looking at to bounce back?

It takes me about a week to start feeling better. I thought high E2 was a nightmare untill I crashed my estrogen.

golfboy307

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Re: I think I crashed me E2. What can I do now?
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2018, 03:23:43 pm »
It took me about 3 weeks to start feeling right again after a E2 crash...
Age 51, 5'10, 155 lbs
Cholesterol 162 (HDL 59, LDL 87, Trigs 88, LDL-P 850)
Fasting Glucose 65 (down from 97 pre TRT)
A1C:  5.0 (down from 5.7 per TRT)
Homocysteine:  12.4 > 11.0 > 10.2 > 8.9 using B vitamin therapy.  MTHFR positive 

BP  120/78 (using improved diet and 10 mg Lisinopril ACE Inhibitor)  145/90 prior to meds.

Current protocol:  60 mg Test Cyp IM every 5 days.  No AI.
2/15/17 labs:  Total T (peak day): 1169 (250 - 1100 ng/dl).  Free T 198 pg/ML (46-225).  Sensitive E2: 40 High.  Previously 32. PSA 0.2  Hemocrit 44.2. SHBG: 32
9/15/18 labs:  Total T (trough day):  598 (250 -1100 ng/dl)  Free T 73.9 (46-225) Sensitive E2: 21  Hemocrit 43.7  SHBG 34
2/20/19 labs:  Total T (mid point):  776 (250 -1100 ng/dl) Free T 115.6 (46 - 224 pg/ml) Sensitive E2 24 (<29), DHT 43 (16-79 ng), DHEA-s 244 (70-495 mcg/dl)


Supplements:  Multivitamin, plus additional B12, B6, C, D, K2, Red Yeast Rice, Magnesium, and Coq10  Evening:  Kyolic Garlic, 2mg Cialis, LEF Endothelial Protection

gimmeabreak

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Re: I think I crashed me E2. What can I do now?
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2018, 03:26:57 pm »
Thanks for all the feed back everyone. I think I feel a little better today. Still foggy but not falling asleep at my desk right now.
39 years old/ 180lbs.


April 2016 - 50mg test cypionate 2x week
                - 250 iu HCG eod
                - 25 mg DHEA daily
               
Sleep apnea - CPAP

- Former natural physique competitor
- switched from weightlifting to gymnastics in January 2016
- diet: some what paleo based. Lots of veggies, no sugar, no grains, fish, chicken, beef. (I use wild, grass fed, free range and hormone free whenever possible)

jaydoe93

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Re: I think I crashed me E2. What can I do now?
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2018, 06:37:15 pm »
Most guys will jump right back up again....as if they just missed a dose of AI.

I have heard cases where someone more ominous occurred, and things never got right again. Dr. Shippen told me one time about a guy who took a single 1mg tablet of Arimidex, and was trashed for a very long time. It's similar to the dreaded Post Finasteride Syndrome (PFS). Perhaps some epigenetic effect.

But please rest assured, such cases are extremely rare.

Can you please elaborate on this, Dr. Crisler? I am positive I am one of these guys. I will be talking about it with Dr. Saya in March.

jaydoe93

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Re: I think I crashed me E2. What can I do now?
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2018, 09:46:24 pm »
anyone?

Joe Sixpack

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Re: I think I crashed me E2. What can I do now?
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2018, 12:40:54 am »
Age: 55, Ht: 5'08", Wt: 155 lbs
Protocol: 25 mg T Cyp + 25 IU HCG M,W,F + 2 clicks T Cream + 15mg DHEA + 15mg Pregnenalone daily.
12/2018 test results: TT: 1054 ng/dL (264-916), FT: 17.2 pg/mL (7.2-24), E2: 21.6 pg/mL sensitive (8.0-35.0)

doin it

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Re: I think I crashed me E2. What can I do now?
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2018, 02:27:18 am »
anyone?
what are you questioning?

-------

Joe,
He is referring to Dr. John's post at the top of the thread.

Jay
Maybe look into reducing E2 metabolism.

 http://www.drdebe.com/articles/safe-alternatives-to-estrogen-replacemen

"A number of natural compounds can slow the breakdown, and thus increase retention, of estrogen in the body. These include grapefruit, the B vitamin PABA, and the plant compound quercetin. The mineral boron has been shown to raise estrogen levels in postmenopausal women."

I think there may be other foods/supps that also do this.

Something else to look into are foods/supps that affect the P450 liver enzymes.
e.g.
Cytochrome P450 1A2 (CYP1A2) is responsible for the metabolism of estrogens and many exogenous compounds, including caffeine.

jaydoe93

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Re: I think I crashed me E2. What can I do now?
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2018, 01:23:31 pm »
anyone?
what are you questioning?

-------

Joe,
He is referring to Dr. John's post at the top of the thread.

Jay
Maybe look into reducing E2 metabolism.

 http://www.drdebe.com/articles/safe-alternatives-to-estrogen-replacemen

"A number of natural compounds can slow the breakdown, and thus increase retention, of estrogen in the body. These include grapefruit, the B vitamin PABA, and the plant compound quercetin. The mineral boron has been shown to raise estrogen levels in postmenopausal women."

I think there may be other foods/supps that also do this.

Something else to look into are foods/supps that affect the P450 liver enzymes.
e.g.
Cytochrome P450 1A2 (CYP1A2) is responsible for the metabolism of estrogens and many exogenous compounds, including caffeine.

Grapefruit is one of my favorite fruits. Before this happened to me I had at least one a day. Now I cannot eat it because it raises my estrogen and makes my situation much worse. I know it sounds bizarre but I am just reporting what happens. It is like my body no longer wants anything to do with Estrogen and reacts paradoxically to it.

Edit: I really hate typing this stuff out as it sounds impossible and like I am no idea what I am talking about. I would just like to add that I have used arimidex for 3 years previously without any problems. TRT wouldn't have been possible without it- I really liked this drug. So I am not bashing arimidex or blaming it. I think for a very rare amount of guys like myself unfortunately, misuse of it can cause serious problems. Not just a hormonal imbalance. But the ability for the receptor to fundamentally change the way it works.

I am on the same exact protocol I have always been on 100mg T cypionate a week, and do not feel a fraction like myself. I have even come off of TRT a few times and never felt any of the side effects I am dealing with right now.
T: 1006 (250-960)
E2: 35 (7-42)
SHBG: 33 (15-55)

I have come to believe that my situation and a few others resembles a phenomenon that happens in breast cancer cells. But clearly, I do not have breast cancer. I believe the same thing can happen in somatic cells. I have no receptor signaling despite having a pretty decent E2 level. Arimidex lowers my E2 but has no effect on my body. And increases of estrogen make me feel much worse. I described it to Dr. Saya as going through chemotherapy. And if you read peoples reports on chemo they report nausea, no appetite, severe hair loss, and anxiety. I get the same thing and I never had any of these symptoms in my life.
This would explain my situation well if it indeed happens in somatic cells.
http://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/108/47/18879.full.pdf
« Last Edit: March 26, 2018, 01:36:43 pm by jaydoe93 »

Joe Sixpack

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Re: I think I crashed me E2. What can I do now?
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2018, 11:33:46 pm »
Grapefruit is one of my favorite fruits. Before this happened to me I had at least one a day. Now I cannot eat it because it raises my estrogen and makes my situation much worse. I know it sounds bizarre but I am just reporting what happens. It is like my body no longer wants anything to do with Estrogen and reacts paradoxically to it.

Edit: I really hate typing this stuff out as it sounds impossible and like I am no idea what I am talking about. I would just like to add that I have used arimidex for 3 years previously without any problems. TRT wouldn't have been possible without it- I really liked this drug. So I am not bashing arimidex or blaming it. I think for a very rare amount of guys like myself unfortunately, misuse of it can cause serious problems. Not just a hormonal imbalance. But the ability for the receptor to fundamentally change the way it works.

I am on the same exact protocol I have always been on 100mg T cypionate a week, and do not feel a fraction like myself. I have even come off of TRT a few times and never felt any of the side effects I am dealing with right now.
T: 1006 (250-960)
E2: 35 (7-42)
SHBG: 33 (15-55)

I have come to believe that my situation and a few others resembles a phenomenon that happens in breast cancer cells. But clearly, I do not have breast cancer. I believe the same thing can happen in somatic cells. I have no receptor signaling despite having a pretty decent E2 level. Arimidex lowers my E2 but has no effect on my body. And increases of estrogen make me feel much worse. I described it to Dr. Saya as going through chemotherapy. And if you read peoples reports on chemo they report nausea, no appetite, severe hair loss, and anxiety. I get the same thing and I never had any of these symptoms in my life.
This would explain my situation well if it indeed happens in somatic cells.
http://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/108/47/18879.full.pdf
That sounds awful. 
Was there anything in particular that started your symptoms?  Or did it just come on gradually and got to a point where you eventually noticed it over time?
Age: 55, Ht: 5'08", Wt: 155 lbs
Protocol: 25 mg T Cyp + 25 IU HCG M,W,F + 2 clicks T Cream + 15mg DHEA + 15mg Pregnenalone daily.
12/2018 test results: TT: 1054 ng/dL (264-916), FT: 17.2 pg/mL (7.2-24), E2: 21.6 pg/mL sensitive (8.0-35.0)

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Re: I think I crashed me E2. What can I do now?
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2018, 11:33:46 pm »