Quantcast

Author Topic: Are Your Fatty Acid Levels OK ???  (Read 8257 times)

doin it

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 462
    • View Profile
Are Your Fatty Acid Levels OK ???
« on: February 21, 2018, 01:26:42 am »



My LDLs are, at this time, unfortunately, of the predominately small, angry variety instead of the large, fluffy, friendly type.  In looking for ways to reverse this situation, I ran accross the connection of Fatty Acids to LDLs.

Also, if fatty acid levels are abnormal, it can cause a whole range of issues, so I  recently got aa ARUP Fatty Acids blood test that shows the status of 20 fatty acids.  The results are listed for each one and they characterize your status in several ways ( look at the example report) and you also get a really groovy color graph (kinda like a polar graph), link follows:

(after going to link, click on the "Example Report " for "Fatty Acids Profile, Essential Serum or Plasma", test number 2013518 in the table), it is a download.

 https://www.aruplab.com/testing/enhanced-reports

These acids affect the body in SO many ways, I cannot offer links.  Just Google (and pubmed) your particular health issue with "Fatty acids" to see if it is applicable to you.

Boxcar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1733
    • View Profile
Re: Are Your Fatty Acid Levels OK ???
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2018, 03:49:13 am »
Thanks for starting the thread.  I am intrigued by this, so sorry in advance for all the questions...

Is this something you can order online, or do you need to live near the lab?  Was this test your doctor's idea, or something you found on your own?

The one thing that raised my natural testosterone levels was olive oil, so I suspect that I was low in oleic acid (which is included by the Spectracell micronutrient test, although it is the only fatty acid they test for).  So I have often wondered if there could be anything else that is off.
Age: 36
178 lbs 5'8''

Current Treatment: 50 mg testosterone cypionate IM, twice a week
Low T Symptoms: Chronic pelvic pain, and other neuropathic pain.  Mild anxiety, low energy and low motivation
Meds: Amitriptyline (for pain, not depression), Clonidine (for sleep, not blood pressure)

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: Are Your Fatty Acid Levels OK ???
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2018, 03:49:13 am »


doin it

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 462
    • View Profile
Re: Are Your Fatty Acid Levels OK ???
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2018, 05:10:47 am »
Thanks for starting the thread.  I am intrigued by this, so sorry in advance for all the questions...

Is this something you can order online, or do you need to live near the lab?  Was this test your doctor's idea, or something you found on your own?

The one thing that raised my natural testosterone levels was olive oil, so I suspect that I was low in oleic acid (which is included by the Spectracell micronutrient test, although it is the only fatty acid they test for).  So I have often wondered if there could be anything else that is off.

-------

My Doc ordered the test (with ARUP test number) and the place that drew the blood sent it to ARUP who sent the results back to the blood drawer who sent them back to my Doc.

I would note that I recently looked around for a new cooking (broiling/baking) oil and found out that there is a big difference between Virgin Olive Oil, extra Virgin Olive Oil,  Pomace Oil, and Refined/Lampante Oil ( I did not wind up using any of these, now using Avacado Oil [425 ° max]  (was using Apricot Kernal Oil).


Joe Sixpack

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2314
    • View Profile
Re: Are Your Fatty Acid Levels OK ???
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2018, 01:42:56 am »
So your issue isn't that your LDL #'s are too high.  It's that they are composed too much of the small variety instead of large?  How do you know that?  Is that what VLDL levels represent? 
Age: 55, Ht: 5'08", Wt: 155 lbs
Protocol: 25 mg T Cyp + 25 IU HCG M,W,F + 2 clicks T Cream + 15mg DHEA + 15mg Pregnenalone daily.
12/2018 test results: TT: 1054 ng/dL (264-916), FT: 17.2 pg/mL (7.2-24), E2: 21.6 pg/mL sensitive (8.0-35.0)

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: Are Your Fatty Acid Levels OK ???
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2018, 01:42:56 am »


doin it

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 462
    • View Profile
Re: Are Your Fatty Acid Levels OK ???
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2018, 02:43:28 am »
So your issue isn't that your LDL #'s are too high.  It's that they are composed too much of the small variety instead of large?  How do you know that?  Is that what VLDL levels represent?

-------

Well, I would like the total LDL number to come down a bit, but yes, I want more of the large LDLs than small ones.

When one has more large than small, that is called "Type A" which is a good thing.  I am presently a Type B (not good).

I know because I took two different blood tests that measure the sizes of my lipid "particles", usually called a " Lipid Particle" test or "LDL Subclasses" test.

An example can be found at:

 https://www.aruplab.com/testing/enhanced-reports

Just click on "Example Report" for "LDL Subclasses" test number 0050021, it is a download.

(This is one of the two tests that I got).

The measurements in this test includes:
HDL,
7 sizes of LDLs,
3 "Mid" sizes (between LDL and VLDL), and,
VLDL.
And you get a nice color x-y graph as well as the numbers and a characterization of whether you are Type A or B.

The other test I got is more detailed.

« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 02:45:43 am by doin it »

Joe Sixpack

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2314
    • View Profile
Re: Are Your Fatty Acid Levels OK ???
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2018, 04:17:35 am »
So your issue isn't that your LDL #'s are too high.  It's that they are composed too much of the small variety instead of large?  How do you know that?  Is that what VLDL levels represent?

-------

Well, I would like the total LDL number to come down a bit, but yes, I want more of the large LDLs than small ones.

When one has more large than small, that is called "Type A" which is a good thing.  I am presently a Type B (not good).

I know because I took two different blood tests that measure the sizes of my lipid "particles", usually called a " Lipid Particle" test or "LDL Subclasses" test.

An example can be found at:

 https://www.aruplab.com/testing/enhanced-reports

Just click on "Example Report" for "LDL Subclasses" test number 0050021, it is a download.

(This is one of the two tests that I got).

The measurements in this test includes:
HDL,
7 sizes of LDLs,
3 "Mid" sizes (between LDL and VLDL), and,
VLDL.
And you get a nice color x-y graph as well as the numbers and a characterization of whether you are Type A or B.

The other test I got is more detailed.
OK.  Got it.  I am familiar with the type A type B thing.  Was your particle number too high as well?
Age: 55, Ht: 5'08", Wt: 155 lbs
Protocol: 25 mg T Cyp + 25 IU HCG M,W,F + 2 clicks T Cream + 15mg DHEA + 15mg Pregnenalone daily.
12/2018 test results: TT: 1054 ng/dL (264-916), FT: 17.2 pg/mL (7.2-24), E2: 21.6 pg/mL sensitive (8.0-35.0)

doin it

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 462
    • View Profile
Re: Are Your Fatty Acid Levels OK ???
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2018, 04:56:30 am »

Yes, numbers high too.  It sounds like you have had the numbers test, how were yours (and to al LDLs) ?

Boxcar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1733
    • View Profile
Re: Are Your Fatty Acid Levels OK ???
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2018, 06:12:57 am »
Have you received your results yet?  I would be curious to see if you learn anything from the test.

Avocado oil has a good profile, although I am not sure I have ever tasted it.  I don't think you can go wrong with extra virgin olive oil, which has been around as long as agriculture.  A lot of the new seed oils seem like bad news.  Even canola oil... it just has a weird bitter chemical taste to me.
Age: 36
178 lbs 5'8''

Current Treatment: 50 mg testosterone cypionate IM, twice a week
Low T Symptoms: Chronic pelvic pain, and other neuropathic pain.  Mild anxiety, low energy and low motivation
Meds: Amitriptyline (for pain, not depression), Clonidine (for sleep, not blood pressure)

doin it

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 462
    • View Profile
Re: Are Your Fatty Acid Levels OK ???
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2018, 02:46:13 pm »
Have you received your results yet?  I would be curious to see if you learn anything from the test.

Avocado oil has a good profile, although I am not sure I have ever tasted it.  I don't think you can go wrong with extra virgin olive oil, which has been around as long as agriculture.  A lot of the new seed oils seem like bad news.  Even canola oil... it just has a weird bitter chemical taste to me.

----

Yep,
All results are in and I am Type B, for now, I am going to change that to an A.

EVOO was in the running but it has a smoke point of around 350°, too low for some of the things I cook.  But I use it (Italian) with vinegar for salads, yum !

Canola oil -Can  Canadian. O oil, La low acid is evil stuff !

Check these two ( there are many others) that tell the tale about canola oil ( the truth:

https://www.smallfootprintfamily.com/the-inconvenient-truth-about-canola-oil

Unfortunately, about two-thirds of the monounsaturated fatty acids in rapeseed oil are erucic acid, a 22-carbon monounsaturated fatty acid that had been associated with Keshan’s disease, which causes fibrotic lesions on the heart.

http://www.creationsmagazine.com/articles/C126/Horowitz.html


Cataceous

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6605
    • View Profile
Re: Are Your Fatty Acid Levels OK ???
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2018, 03:59:45 pm »
...
Check these two ( there are many others) that tell the tale about canola oil ( the truth:

https://www.smallfootprintfamily.com/the-inconvenient-truth-about-canola-oil

Unfortunately, about two-thirds of the monounsaturated fatty acids in rapeseed oil are erucic acid, a 22-carbon monounsaturated fatty acid that had been associated with Keshan’s disease, which causes fibrotic lesions on the heart.

http://www.creationsmagazine.com/articles/C126/Horowitz.html

These are not very credible pieces and offer few citations. That's a nonsensical figure for erucic acid. According to the Wiki article the canola oil from western Canada is now around 0.01%, and it's usually less than 0.1% from other sources. In addition "To date, no health effects have been associated with dietary consumption of erucic acid by humans; but tests of erucic acid metabolism in other species imply that higher levels may be detrimental."

Now in my opinion processed oils are not particularly healthy, but I wouldn't single out canola as being worse than the others. "A review in 2013 of health effects of canola oil came to overall favorable results, including a substantial reduction in total cholesterol and low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol, and an increase in tocopherol levels and improved insulin sensitivity, compared with other sources of dietary fat."
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 60, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 154 lbs
Protocol: 3.2 mg TE subQ qd, 2.4 mg TP subQ qd, 20 mcg GnRH subQ 5.25x/d, 6.25 mg DHEA bid, 12.5 mg enclomiphene qod
Approximate levels (peak): TT: 700 ng/dL, E2: 30 pg/mL, DHEA-S: 300 ug/dL, SHBG: 30 nMol/L

doin it

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 462
    • View Profile
Re: Are Your Fatty Acid Levels OK ???
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2018, 06:35:25 pm »

Cataceous
Thanks for your comments, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Joe Sixpack

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2314
    • View Profile
Re: Are Your Fatty Acid Levels OK ???
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2018, 11:27:01 pm »

Yes, numbers high too.  It sounds like you have had the numbers test, how were yours (and to al LDLs) ?

I have more arterial plaque than most men my age (55) as shown on a cardiac calcium scan.  So yes, I have become educated on the lipid numbers by necessity.  My lipid profile is beyond excellent.  These numbers are not dramatically better than what I used to have.  Meaning, I have always had pretty good cholesterol numbers.  So I'm not sure why I have such a high plaque load.   

•   LDL PARTICLE NUMBER  719 (1016-2185 nmol/L )
•   HDL = 92
•   Tri's  = 52
•   LDL  = 56
•   Total  = 158
•   VLDL = 10 (Range = 10-50)
•   LP(a) = < 10 nmol/L (Range <75)



Age: 55, Ht: 5'08", Wt: 155 lbs
Protocol: 25 mg T Cyp + 25 IU HCG M,W,F + 2 clicks T Cream + 15mg DHEA + 15mg Pregnenalone daily.
12/2018 test results: TT: 1054 ng/dL (264-916), FT: 17.2 pg/mL (7.2-24), E2: 21.6 pg/mL sensitive (8.0-35.0)

doin it

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 462
    • View Profile
Re: Are Your Fatty Acid Levels OK ???
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2018, 12:29:26 am »

Yes, numbers high too.  It sounds like you have had the numbers test, how were yours (and to al LDLs) ?

I have more arterial plaque than most men my age (55) as shown on a cardiac calcium scan.  So yes, I have become educated on the lipid numbers by necessity.  My lipid profile is beyond excellent.  These numbers are not dramatically better than what I used to have.  Meaning, I have always had pretty good cholesterol numbers.  So I'm not sure why I have such a high plaque load.   

•   LDL PARTICLE NUMBER  719 (1016-2185 nmol/L )
•   HDL = 92
•   Tri's  = 52
•   LDL  = 56
•   Total  = 158
•   VLDL = 10 (Range = 10-50)
•   LP(a) = < 10 nmol/L (Range <75)

----

Joe,
I have read that K2 can actually Clean plaque off the CV system.

There is a very interesting book on the sublect of high vs low cholsteral named "The Great Cholesterol Myrh": by Bowden / Sinatra.  I would encourage you to read it.  Also, there is a book by Enig," named "Know your Fats" that is basically a compendium on fats/lipids, also would recommend this book highly.  Both books are inexpensive on Amazon.  Enig is a recognized expert on the subject.
The Sinatra book says, among other interesting things, that high cholesterol has nothing to do with CV disease.  Also that saturated fats are not the villain that they have been made out to be.


Joe Sixpack

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2314
    • View Profile
Re: Are Your Fatty Acid Levels OK ???
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2018, 01:44:18 am »

Yes, numbers high too.  It sounds like you have had the numbers test, how were yours (and to al LDLs) ?

I have more arterial plaque than most men my age (55) as shown on a cardiac calcium scan.  So yes, I have become educated on the lipid numbers by necessity.  My lipid profile is beyond excellent.  These numbers are not dramatically better than what I used to have.  Meaning, I have always had pretty good cholesterol numbers.  So I'm not sure why I have such a high plaque load.   

•   LDL PARTICLE NUMBER  719 (1016-2185 nmol/L )
•   HDL = 92
•   Tri's  = 52
•   LDL  = 56
•   Total  = 158
•   VLDL = 10 (Range = 10-50)
•   LP(a) = < 10 nmol/L (Range <75)

----

Joe,
I have read that K2 can actually Clean plaque off the CV system.

There is a very interesting book on the sublect of high vs low cholsteral named "The Great Cholesterol Myrh": by Bowden / Sinatra.  I would encourage you to read it.  Also, there is a book by Enig," named "Know your Fats" that is basically a compendium on fats/lipids, also would recommend this book highly.  Both books are inexpensive on Amazon.  Enig is a recognized expert on the subject.
The Sinatra book says, among other interesting things, that high cholesterol has nothing to do with CV disease.  Also that saturated fats are not the villain that they have been made out to be.
Thanks for the book recs.  I appreciate it.  Since you recommended those titles, I suspect you would enjoy Dr. Kendrick's blog.  Very entertaining take on heart disease.  https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/.  Kendrick makes a convincing case that cholesterol is not that important with respect to CVD. 

 I stumbled onto this site a few years back and since then incorporated a lot of improvements to my routine.  i already do take the Vit K.  I also take Pycnogonol, magnesium, Vit C, fish oil, kyolic garlic pills, aspirin (controversial I know), I take a multivit.   I don't eat fried anything, I eat almonds and berries every day, spinache every day.  I eat 2 brazil nuts daily (for selenium).  I'm not a vegan by any means.  But I do try to eat a lot of veggies and berries (low glycemic_). 

I agree with you that healthy fats are not something to be afraid of.   I don't eat anything with added sugar.  I think high blood sugar is a much bigger problem than healthy fats are. 

I'm doing what I can to stop the plaque progression.  I plan on retesting the calcium scan this year or next to see how far it has progressed since my first test in 2015. 
Age: 55, Ht: 5'08", Wt: 155 lbs
Protocol: 25 mg T Cyp + 25 IU HCG M,W,F + 2 clicks T Cream + 15mg DHEA + 15mg Pregnenalone daily.
12/2018 test results: TT: 1054 ng/dL (264-916), FT: 17.2 pg/mL (7.2-24), E2: 21.6 pg/mL sensitive (8.0-35.0)

doin it

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 462
    • View Profile
Re: Are Your Fatty Acid Levels OK ???
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2018, 04:00:24 am »

Yes, numbers high too.  It sounds like you have had the numbers test, how were yours (and to al LDLs) ?

I have more arterial plaque than most men my age (55) as shown on a cardiac calcium scan.  So yes, I have become educated on the lipid numbers by necessity.  My lipid profile is beyond excellent.  These numbers are not dramatically better than what I used to have.  Meaning, I have always had pretty good cholesterol numbers.  So I'm not sure why I have such a high plaque load.   

•   LDL PARTICLE NUMBER  719 (1016-2185 nmol/L )
•   HDL = 92
•   Tri's  = 52
•   LDL  = 56
•   Total  = 158
•   VLDL = 10 (Range = 10-50)
•   LP(a) = < 10 nmol/L (Range <75)

----

Joe,
I have read that K2 can actually Clean plaque off the CV system.

There is a very interesting book on the sublect of high vs low cholsteral named "The Great Cholesterol Myrh": by Bowden / Sinatra.  I would encourage you to read it.  Also, there is a book by Enig," named "Know your Fats" that is basically a compendium on fats/lipids, also would recommend this book highly.  Both books are inexpensive on Amazon.  Enig is a recognized expert on the subject.
The Sinatra book says, among other interesting things, that high cholesterol has nothing to do with CV disease.  Also that saturated fats are not the villain that they have been made out to be.
Thanks for the book recs.  I appreciate it.  Since you recommended those titles, I suspect you would enjoy Dr. Kendrick's blog.  Very entertaining take on heart disease.  https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/.  Kendrick makes a convincing case that cholesterol is not that important with respect to CVD. 

 I stumbled onto this site a few years back and since then incorporated a lot of improvements to my routine.  i already do take the Vit K.  I also take Pycnogonol, magnesium, Vit C, fish oil, kyolic garlic pills, aspirin (controversial I know), I take a multivit.   I don't eat fried anything, I eat almonds and berries every day, spinache every day.  I eat 2 brazil nuts daily (for selenium).  I'm not a vegan by any means.  But I do try to eat a lot of veggies and berries (low glycemic_). 

I agree with you that healthy fats are not something to be afraid of.   I don't eat anything with added sugar.  I think high blood sugar is a much bigger problem than healthy fats are. 

I'm doing what I can to stop the plaque progression.  I plan on retesting the calcium scan this year or next to see how far it has progressed since my first test in 2015.

----.

Joe, just a few thoughts:

Yes, sugar is the enemy !

It occurs to me that the fish oil and the
almonds (acetylsalicylic acid) are blood thinners, they may work synergistically to be too thinning.

I believe ONE Brazil nut provides the MDR (or whatever they call it these days), you can get too much Selenium.  Note that Vitamin E and Selenium are synergistic.

Congrats on the daily veggies, I am about 60 % fresh veggies and fruits.  Kale is usually always around my place.

I asked my Doc about a Heart Calcium scan, and he said that if it shows nothing, that is good, but if it shows something, that may or may not mean anything.  He is not big on that test.

I need to think about your cholesterol numbers some nore before commenting.

I like Kendrick's style...

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: Are Your Fatty Acid Levels OK ???
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2018, 04:00:24 am »