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Author Topic: Hcg AND a serm for fertility  (Read 952 times)

cb122

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Hcg AND a serm for fertility
« on: July 05, 2018, 12:56:44 pm »
Ive just read of a fertility 'stack' that suggested both hcg x3 500iu a week AND nolvadex.

Does this make any sense as I thought hcg would shut down natural fsh and lh. Therefore would the nolvadex be doing anything here?

Cataceous

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Re: Hcg AND a serm for fertility
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2018, 01:37:13 pm »
Perhaps it would work if the doses were right, but I wonder if you can get there without trial and error. If you're saying 1,500 IU per week of hCG, that's not a huge amount, so it seems plausible that a SERM can override the suppressive effects.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG ~30 nmol/L

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Re: Hcg AND a serm for fertility
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2018, 01:37:13 pm »


Paco1973

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Re: Hcg AND a serm for fertility
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2018, 10:33:56 am »
HCG will increase your sperm count. Clomid will also. As far as Nolvadex on its own, I don't have any experience. HCG brought up my sperm count, but not to acceptable levels. Clomid really made a difference. To be honest, you'd have to check with a specialist on that one. You'd be surprised how many different things can have an impact on sperm production, and, just like trt, I don't think there is a one size fits all approach to it.
44 years old.
Protocol 0.1ml of 100mg per ml of Testosterone Propionate injected daily subcutaneously.
HCG 150iu daily
Anastrazole 0.05mg twice a week

Dr Justin Saya, MD

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Re: Hcg AND a serm for fertility
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2018, 02:08:41 pm »
Clomid is king for fertility.

If on TRT, then HCG +/- FSH.
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http://www.defymedical.com

NOTE: Comments on this forum are NOT medical advice and are no substitute for individualized patient care. Comments on this forum do not constitute or establish a physician-patient relationship. Please consult your personal physician prior to initiating or changing ANY treatment regimen.

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Re: Hcg AND a serm for fertility
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2018, 02:08:41 pm »


cb122

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Re: Hcg AND a serm for fertility
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2018, 12:09:03 pm »
Clomid is king for fertility.

If on TRT, then HCG +/- FSH.

What dose would you suggest (for clomid)?
« Last Edit: July 12, 2018, 12:11:46 pm by cb122 »

ghce

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Re: Hcg AND a serm for fertility
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2018, 02:57:43 pm »
Clomid is easy to over do, most men seem to be ok with 12.5mg eod ( every other day) up to 25 my eod. I know in my case sperm count tripled on 12.5 mg eod and morphology and motility went to the upper end of the range within a 2 month period.

Had been trying for a baby for  previous 2 years on TRT but going off TRT and using Clomid saw my wife pregnant with in 2 months.
Age:57, Height 6' 3" weight 92.5KG
2014 Androderm Patches
2014-2016 Andriol 160mg
June 2016 Clomid/Serophene 12.5mg EOD
September 2016 no TRT all natural and supplements for the time being
February 2017 Testosterone cream 100mg daily

Sept 2016
Testosterone   8.2 nmol/l   9-38
Free Testosterone   239 pmol/l   L   250-800
SHBG:  14    nmol/L   9-60
Free Androgen index   586   >400
Oestradiol    112   pmol/L    <190
LH    2.6 IU/L Adult male   2 - 9 IU/L
FSH  1.4 IU/L Adult male L2 - 12 IU/L

22 November
T 6.8  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) L

March 2017
Testosterone:   45.0  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) H ( 1,323 ng/dl )
Free Testosterone:   1512  pmol/L ( 250-800 ) H
SHBG:   17  nmol/L ( 9-60 )
Plasma IGF-1:   227 ug/L ( 55-198 ) H
Plasma cortisol:   434 nmol/L ( 0600-1000 hrs 170-500 nmol/L )
HbA1c:   36 mmol/mol ( 20-40 )
LH:   <0.1 IU/L
FSH:   0.1 IU/L
DHT Plasma Dihydrotestosterone:   7455   pmol/L ( 223 ng/dl ) 

Reference Range Adult males  1000-6000 pmol/L

Cataceous

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Re: Hcg AND a serm for fertility
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2018, 07:42:44 pm »
Clomid is king for fertility.

If on TRT, then HCG +/- FSH.

What dose would you suggest (for clomid)?

Don't ask the contributing doctors for any specific advice; they'll ignore the queries anyway. In line with what ghce says, Dr. Crisler advocates a "low and slow" approach with Clomid. We have seen that 12.5 mg every other day is useful for some guys, so it can be a reasonable starting point.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG ~30 nmol/L

cb122

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Re: Hcg AND a serm for fertility
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2018, 01:57:44 pm »
Clomid is easy to over do, most men seem to be ok with 12.5mg eod ( every other day) up to 25 my eod. I know in my case sperm count tripled on 12.5 mg eod and morphology and motility went to the upper end of the range within a 2 month period.

Had been trying for a baby for  previous 2 years on TRT but going off TRT and using Clomid saw my wife pregnant with in 2 months.

Thank you. I somehow went from super low count to above average by adding coq10 400mg per day and havent touched any drugs which affect hormones. Weird. Hopefully clomid and keeping the coq10 may work.

cb122

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Re: Hcg AND a serm for fertility
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2018, 02:03:08 pm »
Clomid is king for fertility.

If on TRT, then HCG +/- FSH.

Excuse.my ignorance but does this mean if on hrt clomid would do nothing for fertility... hence the hcg and hmg recommendation?

Cataceous

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Re: Hcg AND a serm for fertility
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2018, 02:55:43 pm »
Clomid is king for fertility.

If on TRT, then HCG +/- FSH.

... if on hrt clomid would do nothing for fertility... hence the hcg and hmg recommendation?

Clomid and full blown TRT is not a good combination; TRT is suppressing the HPTA while Clomid is trying to stimulate it.

See Dr. Saya's post on fertility rankings:

A *very* generalized ranking of relative fertilities (with top being most fertile):

1. Clomid/SERM treatment
2(A). HCG + HMG (or lyophilized FSH)
2(B). Baseline no treatment (no HPTA suppression via TRT, AAS, HCG mono, etc) - assuming no significant degree of primary/secondary/tertiary dysfunction.
3(A). HCG monotherapy (does in fact result in HPTA suppression, especially at higher doses, but *may* move up to #2 in select cases of SECONDARY/TERTIARY hypogonadism)
3(B). TRT + HCG (as we know many men are still able to maintain adequate fertility to conceive)
4. TRT/AAS with no concurrent HCG.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG ~30 nmol/L

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Re: Hcg AND a serm for fertility
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2018, 02:55:43 pm »