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Author Topic: Possibly starting shots  (Read 11228 times)

hello73

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Possibly starting shots
« on: August 20, 2018, 06:01:31 am »
Alright guys. In 2 days I have a doctors appointment and I am going to bring up starting shots vs the current cream. I am tired of wiping the cream off daily especially because I have a family and because it is inconsistent. When I apply it on my inner arms I get 750+ and if I apply it on the delt and upper chest my last reading was like 425.
What is a good start protocol 100 mg once a week and test in a month?
 What is the smallest needle I can possibly use?

Cataceous

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Re: Possibly starting shots
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2018, 06:43:10 am »
You said your SHBG is 17 nmol/L, so that suggests injections should be more frequent; you probably would not be satisfied with how you'd feel on weekly injections. Alternatives for starting out are 50 mg T cyp e3.5d or even better, 28 mg T cyp eod.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG ~30 nmol/L

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Re: Possibly starting shots
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2018, 06:43:10 am »


hello73

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Re: Possibly starting shots
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2018, 07:35:53 am »
You said your SHBG is 17 nmol/L, so that suggests injections should be more frequent; you probably would not be satisfied with how you'd feel on weekly injections. Alternatives for starting out are 50 mg T cyp e3.5d or even better, 28 mg T cyp eod.
Can I try 50mg twice a week instead or 200mg once a week to avoid so many sticks?

Cataceous

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Re: Possibly starting shots
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2018, 11:16:30 am »
Doubling the dose would likely give you double the grief when it comes to managing estradiol, and you'd probably go way high on testosterone too. Taking 50 mg twice a week is the better option. If you're doing subQ with small gauge needles then the sticks are nothing.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG ~30 nmol/L

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Re: Possibly starting shots
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2018, 11:16:30 am »


hello73

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Re: Possibly starting shots
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2018, 11:23:48 am »
Doubling the dose would likely give you double the grief when it comes to managing estradiol, and you'd probably go way high on testosterone too. Taking 50 mg twice a week is the better option. If you're doing subQ with small gauge needles then the sticks are nothing.
I see. I am going to ask for the 50mg twice weekly. I have a few questions.

What is the smallest size needle I can use?
How soon after I begin shots should I wait to get labs?
Do I need to be off the cream for a few days before I begin the shots?

Sean Mosher

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Re: Possibly starting shots
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2018, 11:30:41 am »
I personally pin with a 28g-1/2" insulin syringe.
4-6 week after the change draw labs again.
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Cataceous

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Re: Possibly starting shots
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2018, 11:33:26 am »
...
What is the smallest size needle I can use?
How soon after I begin shots should I wait to get labs?
Do I need to be off the cream for a few days before I begin the shots?

31 gauge needles are the smallest, and are what I use.
Wait six weeks for labs.
I would not stop the cream before starting shots, and I might even overlap a couple days while tapering the cream.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG ~30 nmol/L

hello73

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Re: Possibly starting shots
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2018, 11:38:56 am »
...
What is the smallest size needle I can use?
How soon after I begin shots should I wait to get labs?
Do I need to be off the cream for a few days before I begin the shots?

31 gauge needles are the smallest, and are what I use.
Wait six weeks for labs.
I would not stop the cream before starting shots, and I might even overlap a couple days while tapering the cream.
Thank you! Can you explain the way shbg works? I am confused with how a low or high shbg works with shots?

hello73

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Re: Possibly starting shots
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2018, 11:39:23 am »
I personally pin with a 28g-1/2" insulin syringe.
4-6 week after the change draw labs again.
Thank you

Cataceous

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Re: Possibly starting shots
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2018, 11:40:54 am »
Here's another tip: if you have extra cream don't throw it out. Several guys have found that when things stop being as good with injections you can apply a dose of cream every week or two, and that really helps. The reason isn't clear. In some cases the extra DHT may be doing the job, but I've found that for me it's the extra testosterone, and not DHT.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG ~30 nmol/L

Cataceous

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Re: Possibly starting shots
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2018, 11:53:13 am »
... Can you explain the way shbg works? I am confused with how a low or high shbg works with shots?

SHBG binds to testosterone, thereby making it last longer. For a given total serum testosterone, higher SHBG means less free testosterone. Because free testosterone is the form that does useful stuff, you do not want SHBG to be too high, because it suppresses free T. But at the other end, when SHBG is too low then there's too much free T, at least relatively, and it is used up too fast. So a guy with high SHBG might inject testosterone weekly and not have serum levels drop too much by the time of his next shot. But a guy with low SHBG could see his levels decline dramatically if he waits too long. And he can't inject extra testosterone because then his hormone levels, including estradiol, go too high shortly after the injection. This is why, in general, frequent, small injections are preferred for guys with low SHBG.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 12:41:10 pm by Cataceous »
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG ~30 nmol/L

hello73

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Re: Possibly starting shots
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2018, 12:10:32 pm »
... Can you explain the way shbg works? I am confused with how a low or high shbg works with shots?

SHBG binds to testosterone, thereby making it last longer. For a given total serum testosterone, higher SHBG means less free testosterone. Because free testosterone is the form that does useful stuff, you do not want SHBG to be too high, because it suppresses free T. But at the other end, when SHBG is too low then there's too much free T, at least relatively, and it is used up too fast. So a guy with high SHBG might inject testosterone weekly and not have serum levels drop too much by the time of his next shot. But a guy with low SHBG could see his levels decline dramatically if he waits to long. And he can't inject extra testosterone because then his hormone levels, including estradiol, go too high shortly after the injection. This is why, in general, frequent, small injections are preferred for guys with low SHBG.
But if low shbg is too much free T won't a weekly shot sustain you since there is too much free T already?

Cataceous

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Re: Possibly starting shots
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2018, 12:47:01 pm »
...
 But if low shbg is too much free T won't a weekly shot sustain you since there is too much free T already?

No, because in the first few days hormones go too high--and get used/excreted more rapidly, and before the next shot they go too low--or at least testosterone does. Most guys do not find this kind of variation to be pleasant, and especially when estradiol ends up out of sync with testosterone.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG ~30 nmol/L

hello73

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Re: Possibly starting shots
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2018, 01:00:48 pm »
...
 But if low shbg is too much free T won't a weekly shot sustain you since there is too much free T already?

No, because in the first few days hormones go too high--and get used/excreted more rapidly, and before the next shot they go too low--or at least testosterone does. Most guys do not find this kind of variation to be pleasant, and especially when estradiol ends up out of sync with testosterone.
I see. If I inject on Thursdays and Mondays when is the best time to get checked? The day after the shot or 3 days later?

Cataceous

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Re: Possibly starting shots
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2018, 01:09:30 pm »
... If I inject on Thursdays and Mondays when is the best time to get checked? The day after the shot or 3 days later?

Usually you want to know the trough values, which means testing just before any injection. For consistency it's good to be fasted, and also because sometimes you should be getting other tests, including CMP and lipids. So if you're injecting Monday mornings and Thursday evenings then it makes sense to test first thing on Monday, before doing your injection.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG ~30 nmol/L

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Re: Possibly starting shots
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2018, 01:09:30 pm »