Quantcast

Author Topic: Testosterone and Behavior  (Read 12326 times)

Blade78

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 965
    • View Profile
Re: Testosterone and Behavior
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2013, 07:57:56 pm »



I think the bigger issue is that guys chin.  Clearly chin size is a predictor of testosterone levels.

how is that a bigger issue to show whether a man has high or low testosterone?

I think low testosterone means "I dont reed well" since no one is being compliant with the thread topic, instead saying useless gibberish like:

OMG men have 1000% more testosterone than WOMEN!
and other things that are NOT a behavior that would showcase whether a man has low or high testosterone
see, thats what this thread is about, INDICATORS of someones current level of testosterone
not what their level was in utero, but the current level

does anyone have anything useful to add?

“Don’t you feel good when you go to the gym?’ Not at all. There’s too many people in-shape there. When I go to McDonald’s I feel great. At McDonald’s I’m Matthew McConaughey.” --Jim Gaffigan - Mr. Universe

Sam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3013
    • View Profile
Re: Testosterone and Behavior
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2013, 08:08:00 pm »
I guess that then depend on if you are talking about the healthy population or those with a condition causing low t or supplementation causing high t.   I think the chin is a relevant observation if you are trying to draw a hypothesis about this guys t levels and his behaviors.  If what you are really trying to understand is the epidemiological relevance of a discussion around the distribution of testosterone levels in the human population.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 08:41:39 pm by Samson1971 »

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: Testosterone and Behavior
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2013, 08:08:00 pm »


PeakT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 38447
    • View Profile
    • Peak Testosterone
Re: Testosterone and Behavior
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2013, 08:36:16 pm »

I missed how this is on topic with this thread?  am I supposed to find this info in some way useful?


I assumed you were joking about the hat comment, so I responded tongue in cheek.  So the answer is that you really weren't supposed to find the information all that useful. 
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program.aspx
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

PeakT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 38447
    • View Profile
    • Peak Testosterone
Re: Testosterone and Behavior
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2013, 08:58:27 pm »

how is that a bigger issue to show whether a man has high or low testosterone?

I think low testosterone means "I dont reed well" since no one is being compliant with the thread topic, instead saying useless gibberish like:

OMG men have 1000% more testosterone than WOMEN!
and other things that are NOT a behavior that would showcase whether a man has low or high testosterone
see, thats what this thread is about, INDICATORS of someones current level of testosterone
not what their level was in utero, but the current level

does anyone have anything useful to add?

Hey, I think you did this to yourself.  You kind of put a semi-humorous picture and made a few jokes and so everyone responded in kind.

Anyway, I do not know of any external way to tell testosterone reliably.

Now steroid usage is another matter.  I've never seen a study on this, but the claim has long been that steroids (and HGH) will increase bone size in the feet, hands and jaw.  Look at what none other than George Will wrote:

"Mike Murphy, equipment manager of the San Francisco Giants, testified that since Bonds became a Giant in 1993, the size of his uniform jersey has gone from 42 to 52. His cap size has expanded from 7 1/8 to 7 1/4, even though while it was expanding he shaved his head. (Bonds reportedly shaved his head because his hair was falling out as a result of steroid use.) And Fainaru-Wada and Williams also say Murphy testified that Bonds's baseball shoe size has changed from 10½ to 13.

Steroids, human growth hormone (HGH) and other performance-enhancing drugs (PEDs) can cause gradual enlargement of bones in the feet, hands, face, jaw and skull."

THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program.aspx
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: Testosterone and Behavior
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2013, 08:58:27 pm »


PeakT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 38447
    • View Profile
    • Peak Testosterone
Re: Testosterone and Behavior
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2013, 09:01:40 pm »
Now could you tell from behavior?  Well, perhaps from lack of empathy.  Remember the TEDs video that Samson posted?

http://peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1095.msg9932#msg9932

Aggression and other similar behaviors are hard to define and researchers are still arguing about testosterone's effects in these areas...
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program.aspx
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Blade78

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 965
    • View Profile
Re: Testosterone and Behavior
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2013, 11:13:50 pm »

Hey, I think you did this to yourself.  You kind of put a semi-humorous picture and made a few jokes and so everyone responded in kind.
you'd be wrong
My humorous example was exactly what I wanted, behavior that was controlled by level of testosterone?
the examples that were given, -size of someones jaw/hand/female-were not determined by choices.
see the difference?
 


Anyway, I do not know of any external way to tell testosterone reliably.

that's the point of this thread.
I think there are ways to predict if someone has high/average VS low testertone based on how they behave(not how they are, but through choices they make)

ie,
alpha men have higher testosterone than other men?  so does more testosterone make an alpha male or does being a leader make you have more testosterone?
“Don’t you feel good when you go to the gym?’ Not at all. There’s too many people in-shape there. When I go to McDonald’s I feel great. At McDonald’s I’m Matthew McConaughey.” --Jim Gaffigan - Mr. Universe

JackAndy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1233
    • View Profile
Re: Testosterone and Behavior
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2013, 11:19:40 pm »
Jack, you completely misunderstood the point I was making.  It's not that a billionaire is born with a higher testosterone level or part of some master race, it's that there are things that happen that cause testosterone levels to rise and fall.  There is proof that if you win in a sporting or business setting, your t goes up.  (this relationship may not work the same if you have secondary hypogonadism, but for the normal population it is true)  if said billionaire were to then lose his money his test would then crash and his cortisol would go up hugely.  The point of the research of the book I mentioned was about how these hormones vary situationally among the same people, not that someone is born with high t and should therefore be a billionaire.

If you walk up to a girl and pick her up and get laid i'll bet your t level the next few hours would be a lot higher than if she rejected you and made you feel like crap.  It's the same principle

Ok so you're saying that you think they have higher testosterone because they're rich?
Age:29
5'11" 190 lbs
150mg Test-E/week

PeakT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 38447
    • View Profile
    • Peak Testosterone
Re: Testosterone and Behavior
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2013, 12:05:38 am »

alpha men have higher testosterone than other men?  so does more testosterone make an alpha male or does being a leader make you have more testosterone?

Okay, makes sense.  How about these?

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0003347203003981
"Dominance, aggression and testosterone in wild chimpanzees: a test of the ‘challenge hypothesis’"

"High-ranking chimpanzees were more aggressive than low-ranking males and produced higher levels of urinary testosterone."

And I think most females would agree that chimps is a pretty good model for studying men.

The problem, though, with the above is that you could argue that they have high testosterone precisely because they are alpha.  For example, look at this study:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0003347203003981
"Agonistic rank, aggression, social context, and testosterone in male pigtail monkeys"

"The alpha and beta males of the defeated group were singled out for repeated attack and both showed significant drops in circulating levels of testosterone."

So are alpha males high testosterone because high testosterone helps them climb to the top of the power ladder?  Or do they have high testosterone because they've won the most tournaments and have the most babes?

And, man, there is a Journal for everything, eh? 
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 12:09:05 am by PeakT »
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program.aspx
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Blade78

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 965
    • View Profile
Re: Testosterone and Behavior
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2013, 03:19:43 am »

alpha men have higher testosterone than other men?  so does more testosterone make an alpha male or does being a leader make you have more testosterone?

Okay, makes sense.  How about these?

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0003347203003981
"Dominance, aggression and testosterone in wild chimpanzees: a test of the ‘challenge hypothesis’"

"High-ranking chimpanzees were more aggressive than low-ranking males and produced higher levels of urinary testosterone."


I dunno, If I saw a male throwing feces at me, I wouldnt think he has high testosterone, but he has an extra chromosome.
yes, thats on the right track of what I'd like to see.

I checked out at the grocery store and the girl bagging my food, had kept looking at me, so I didnt see a name tag, so I went up to her, asked her name, but the cashier interuppted our talk, as he was helping the next person....she might have been 20, maybe, really cute girl, and I had just come from the gym, so either I repulsed her with my gym clothes or I'll get a grin and "come talk to me" look when I see Anna Marie again..

WHO gives me a name like that?  I have a hard enough time getting people to say my 2 syllable name, much less a 3 syllable name!

“Don’t you feel good when you go to the gym?’ Not at all. There’s too many people in-shape there. When I go to McDonald’s I feel great. At McDonald’s I’m Matthew McConaughey.” --Jim Gaffigan - Mr. Universe

399

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 99
    • View Profile
Re: Testosterone and Behavior
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2013, 06:57:53 am »
Jack, no no no!  im saying they are likely high testosterone because in order to get rich they have been winning competitive battles along the way.  It's the same thing in a different context that peak t is saying.  So when monkeys win battles and become higher status in their groups they test higher for testosterone.  The exact same is true in humans, and one of the ways, but not the only way, one becomes "alpha" in our society is to win competitive business battles and make a whole lot of money.  But the same effect is true in athletes, that the same level athletes if you test them after a game the winners have higher testosterone than the losers.  In fact the book I mentioned threw out the theory that winning streaks in sports could be caused by steadily rising testosterone of the team that keeps winning leading to a positive feedback in their level of play.

Take money out of it, the point is simply that someone who is steadily winning competitions and being successful after taking risks gets natural boosts in testosterone, whether the context is athletic, business, daredevil, women, or some other form of status.  That is the simple explanation why a self-made billionaire at the point where he is on top is likely to have a higher testosterone level.  It's positive feedback from success, winning, and status, and it would be the same in anyone in any context who is not hypogonadal to begin with.

Blade78

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 965
    • View Profile
Re: Testosterone and Behavior
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2013, 07:18:56 am »
Yes/no/direct answers

I find the lack of direct answers to be annoying, yet I wonder about why it happens

I've seen it mostly with physicians/phds, educated people, who might be not giving me a straight answer to cover their ass/leave them options/etc.
but even in my friendly dealing with educated people, they dont seem to easily give a straight answer, I must re-ask my question

Maybe Im asking complicated questions, I dont think so.
“Don’t you feel good when you go to the gym?’ Not at all. There’s too many people in-shape there. When I go to McDonald’s I feel great. At McDonald’s I’m Matthew McConaughey.” --Jim Gaffigan - Mr. Universe

JackAndy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1233
    • View Profile
Re: Testosterone and Behavior
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2013, 08:19:31 am »
It's positive feedback from success, winning, and status, and it would be the same in anyone in any context who is not hypogonadal to begin with.

Got it. They have high testosterone because they have success.
Age:29
5'11" 190 lbs
150mg Test-E/week

399

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 99
    • View Profile
Re: Testosterone and Behavior
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2013, 10:23:31 am »
yes exactly.  the book i mentioned did not talk about billionaires.  what it did was study wall street traders and found that when they were winning and their trades were working, their testosterone levels rose, while when they were losing test went down and cortisol spiked.  i extrapolated that research as well as some of the other research out there like how the alpha male monkeys have higher test levels, that someone who has had the success to become a billionaire likely has had their testosterone levels boosted by these same natural processes.  its an interesting subject how much hormone levels and fluctuations affect behavior and i think that book i mentioned made an important contribution to our nascent understanding of this topic

JackAndy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1233
    • View Profile
Re: Testosterone and Behavior
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2013, 10:43:14 am »
That's kind of like the studies about how abstaining from ejaculation increases testosterone. The truth is that it only does so for 1-2 days. After that, testosterone levels return to baseline. I wonder if this effect is sustained and if so for how long?
Age:29
5'11" 190 lbs
150mg Test-E/week

PeakT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 38447
    • View Profile
    • Peak Testosterone
Re: Testosterone and Behavior
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2013, 11:14:07 am »
That's kind of like the studies about how abstaining from ejaculation increases testosterone. The truth is that it only does so for 1-2 days. After that, testosterone levels return to baseline. I wonder if this effect is sustained and if so for how long?

It's very difficult to tease that out.  Think of the opposite situation:  depression.  Depression lowers testosterone and low testosterone lower depression.  So if a guy has low testosterone and depression, how do you know which one is the chicken and which one is the egg??
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program.aspx
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: Testosterone and Behavior
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2013, 11:14:07 am »