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Author Topic: Applying Scrotal Cream  (Read 925 times)

bkb333

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Re: Applying Scrotal Cream
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2019, 08:05:05 pm »
"HRD LVN" did answer above, noting that the absorption rate varies. It varies not just from person to person, but can change without warning for anyone. If you want a very rough idea: through normal skin the estimate is 10% absorption. Absorption through scrotal skin is considerably higher, possibly up to around 60%. In contrast, injections give you 100% of the testosterone that's attached to the ester.

In your example, 30 mg of T cypionate means that 21 mg of testosterone is injected (T cyp is 70% T). To get the same dose via topical testosterone at 60% absorption efficiency would mean that 35 mg of T  (21 / 0.6) must be applied to the skin. This would be spread out over the same number of days as were between the injections. If your cream is 200 mg/mL then it's about three quarters of a click.

If absorption efficiency is only 10% then 210 mg T must be applied, spread out over the number of inter-injection days. This is a little over four clicks at 50 mg/click.

Thank you for the very thoughtful, thorough answer! You're the man.
High SHBG guy
27 YO, 6'2", 172 lbs, 11.5% BF
50 mg T-cyp cream (daily), 25mg Ibutamoren (daily), 300 IU hCG (2x week)

bkb333

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Re: Applying Scrotal Cream
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2019, 04:23:59 am »
Now that I understand the dosages (thank you for your help!), I'll bounce this question off of you. As I mentioned, my prescription is 1-2 clicks per day, but I was instructed to work up to 4 clicks per day if I do not see symptom resolution. How long would you give it at the current dosage before reevaluating? I've read men typically start seeing the effects of exogenous T at 3-6 weeks.
High SHBG guy
27 YO, 6'2", 172 lbs, 11.5% BF
50 mg T-cyp cream (daily), 25mg Ibutamoren (daily), 300 IU hCG (2x week)

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Re: Applying Scrotal Cream
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2019, 04:23:59 am »


Cataceous

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Re: Applying Scrotal Cream
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2019, 06:24:19 am »
There are two related issues here. The first is insuring that you have restored serum testosterone to normal levels. This can be verified by blood tests. Typically the test is done at the assumed peak, two hours post-application. But it may also be useful to know the pre-application trough value. You can attempt to use subjective results rather than lab tests, but this is difficult given the long and variable periods over which low-T symptoms may resolve. On this issue I refer you to a useful article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3188848/

Quote
Effects on sexual interest appear after 3 weeks plateauing at 6 weeks, with no further increments expected beyond. Changes in erections/ejaculations may require up to 6 months. Effects on quality of life manifest within 3–4 weeks, but maximum benefits take longer. Effects on depressive mood become detectable after 3–6 weeks with a maximum after 18–30 weeks. Effects on erythropoiesis are evident at 3 months, peaking at 9–12 months. Prostate-specific antigen and volume rise, marginally, plateauing at 12 months; further increase should be related to aging rather than therapy. Effects on lipids appear after 4 weeks, maximal after 6–12 months. Insulin sensitivity may improve within few days, but effects on glycemic control become evident only after 3–12 months. Changes in fat mass, lean body mass, and muscle strength occur within 12–16 weeks, stabilize at 6–12 months, but can marginally continue over years. Effects on inflammation occur within 3–12 weeks. Effects on bone are detectable already after 6 months while continuing at least for 3 years.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 07:23:21 am by Cataceous »
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG ~30 nmol/L

bkb333

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Re: Applying Scrotal Cream
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2019, 07:14:15 am »
There are two related issues here. The first is insuring that you have restored serum testosterone to normal levels. This can be verified by blood tests. Typically the test is done at the assumed peak, two hours post-application. But it may also be useful to know the pre-application trough value. You can attempt to use subjective results rather than lab tests, but this is difficult given the long and variable period over which low-T symptoms may resolve. On this issue I refer you to a useful article on the subject: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3188848/

Quote
Effects on sexual interest appear after 3 weeks plateauing at 6 weeks, with no further increments expected beyond. Changes in erections/ejaculations may require up to 6 months. Effects on quality of life manifest within 3–4 weeks, but maximum benefits take longer. Effects on depressive mood become detectable after 3–6 weeks with a maximum after 18–30 weeks. Effects on erythropoiesis are evident at 3 months, peaking at 9–12 months. Prostate-specific antigen and volume rise, marginally, plateauing at 12 months; further increase should be related to aging rather than therapy. Effects on lipids appear after 4 weeks, maximal after 6–12 months. Insulin sensitivity may improve within few days, but effects on glycemic control become evident only after 3–12 months. Changes in fat mass, lean body mass, and muscle strength occur within 12–16 weeks, stabilize at 6–12 months, but can marginally continue over years. Effects on inflammation occur within 3–12 weeks. Effects on bone are detectable already after 6 months while continuing at least for 3 years.

Awesome. Thank you again for all the help!

Another question for anyone with experience with scrotal application of cream: how do you avoid it rubbing off (ex: onto underwear)? Do you wait in the bathroom for a while for it to dry, or do you go about your day and assume much won't rub off?
High SHBG guy
27 YO, 6'2", 172 lbs, 11.5% BF
50 mg T-cyp cream (daily), 25mg Ibutamoren (daily), 300 IU hCG (2x week)

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Re: Applying Scrotal Cream
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2019, 07:14:15 am »


ghce

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Re: Applying Scrotal Cream
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2019, 12:51:16 pm »
There are two related issues here. The first is insuring that you have restored serum testosterone to normal levels. This can be verified by blood tests. Typically the test is done at the assumed peak, two hours post-application. But it may also be useful to know the pre-application trough value. You can attempt to use subjective results rather than lab tests, but this is difficult given the long and variable period over which low-T symptoms may resolve. On this issue I refer you to a useful article on the subject: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3188848/

Quote
Effects on sexual interest appear after 3 weeks plateauing at 6 weeks, with no further increments expected beyond. Changes in erections/ejaculations may require up to 6 months. Effects on quality of life manifest within 3–4 weeks, but maximum benefits take longer. Effects on depressive mood become detectable after 3–6 weeks with a maximum after 18–30 weeks. Effects on erythropoiesis are evident at 3 months, peaking at 9–12 months. Prostate-specific antigen and volume rise, marginally, plateauing at 12 months; further increase should be related to aging rather than therapy. Effects on lipids appear after 4 weeks, maximal after 6–12 months. Insulin sensitivity may improve within few days, but effects on glycemic control become evident only after 3–12 months. Changes in fat mass, lean body mass, and muscle strength occur within 12–16 weeks, stabilize at 6–12 months, but can marginally continue over years. Effects on inflammation occur within 3–12 weeks. Effects on bone are detectable already after 6 months while continuing at least for 3 years.

Awesome. Thank you again for all the help!

Another question for anyone with experience with scrotal application of cream: how do you avoid it rubbing off (ex: onto underwear)? Do you wait in the bathroom for a while for it to dry, or do you go about your day and assume much won't rub off?

Cream absorbs very quickly depending on its formulation. I found the waiting period before dressing was about 5 minutes  but can depend on how hot you are as well. Typically I was applying cream after showering in the morning and if it was a hot day or I was sweating the cream took longer to dry.
Age:57, Height 6' 3" weight 92.5KG
2014 Androderm Patches
2014-2016 Oral Andriol 160mg Daily
June 2016 Clomid/Serophene 12.5mg EOD
September 2016 no TRT all natural and supplements for the time being
February 2017 Testosterone cream 100mg daily

Sept 2016
Testosterone   8.2 nmol/l   9-38
Free Testosterone   239 pmol/l   L   250-800
SHBG:  14    nmol/L   9-60
Free Androgen index   586   >400
Oestradiol    112   pmol/L    <190
LH    2.6 IU/L Adult male   2 - 9 IU/L
FSH  1.4 IU/L Adult male L2 - 12 IU/L

22 November
T 6.8  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) L

March 2017
Testosterone:   45.0  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) H ( 1,323 ng/dl )
Free Testosterone:   1512  pmol/L ( 250-800 ) H
SHBG:   17  nmol/L ( 9-60 )
Plasma IGF-1:   227 ug/L ( 55-198 ) H
Plasma cortisol:   434 nmol/L ( 0600-1000 hrs 170-500 nmol/L )
HbA1c:   36 mmol/mol ( 20-40 )
LH:   <0.1 IU/L
FSH:   0.1 IU/L
DHT Plasma Dihydrotestosterone:   7455   pmol/L ( 223 ng/dl ) 

Reference Range Adult males  1000-6000 pmol/L

bkb333

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Re: Applying Scrotal Cream
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2019, 10:20:22 am »
Reviving this thread. Can someone help me understand the price difference between creams and injectables?

For example, Empower sells cream, 200 mg/ml, at 30 ml, for $72. It sells T-cyp 100mg/mL, 5 ml (Compounded), for $55. This doesn't sound right to me, as I've heard injectables are more affordable. How significant is the difference?
High SHBG guy
27 YO, 6'2", 172 lbs, 11.5% BF
50 mg T-cyp cream (daily), 25mg Ibutamoren (daily), 300 IU hCG (2x week)

Cataceous

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Re: Applying Scrotal Cream
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2019, 11:41:05 am »
Reviving this thread. Can someone help me understand the price difference between creams and injectables?

For example, Empower sells cream, 200 mg/ml, at 30 ml, for $72. It sells T-cyp 100mg/mL, 5 ml (Compounded), for $55. This doesn't sound right to me, as I've heard injectables are more affordable. How significant is the difference?

This is more about brand-name products, where transdermal products like Androgel have outlandish prices compared to injectables, such as Depo-Testosterone. As the transdermal products lose their patents the gaps may narrow.

That aside, in your example the cream is giving you six grams of testosterone, which on normal skin might be equivalent to 600 mg absorbed. With the cypionate you're getting about 350 mg of testosterone. So yes, cream is more economical in this case at $120 per gram versus $157. But Empower is expensive for injectable testosterone. Cash price at Walgreens is $40 for 10 mL of 200 mg/mL T cyp, which means testosterone is only $29 per gram. If you used scrotal application for your Empower cream and got excellent absorption of 60% then the cost drops to $20 per gram. So call it a mixed bag.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG ~30 nmol/L

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Re: Applying Scrotal Cream
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2019, 11:41:05 am »