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Author Topic: Friend's Testosterone is 780 ng/dL  (Read 731 times)

sportguy

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Re: Friend's Testosterone is 780 ng/dL
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2019, 05:14:46 am »
...
About diet I only said that your body for producting T needs a lot of cholesterol from diet.  So if you don’t eat cholesterol your body doesn’t have bricks for building T. ...

This is not correct. Our serum cholesterol is basically independent of dietary cholesterol; we manufacture what we need.


From what I have read what you wrote is not correct. Our body although can produce cholesterol prefers it that comes from outside. It’s important for many things like hormonal production, vitamin D production, skin, brain etc.

One source I can remember now is Dr. David Perlmutter but there are many others.

It is written e everywhere for example that vegan diet is linked with low sex drive and low testosterone..... and it is a cholesterol free diet.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2019, 05:19:38 am by sportguy »

Cataceous

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Re: Friend's Testosterone is 780 ng/dL
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2019, 06:25:16 am »
Quote
Individual variation in plasma or serum cholesterol responsiveness to dietary cholesterol appears independent of, and thus can't be predicted based on, baseline circulating cholesterol level.

https://www.acc.org/latest-in-cardiology/articles/2015/08/19/12/57/the-debate-about-dietary-cholesterol

Cited references are:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC424515/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1386675/

Quote
How Does Dietary Cholesterol Affect Blood Cholesterol?

The amount of cholesterol in your diet and the amount of cholesterol in your blood are very different things.

Although it may seem logical that eating cholesterol would raise blood cholesterol levels, it usually doesn't work that way.

The body tightly regulates the amount of cholesterol in the blood by controlling its production of cholesterol.

When your dietary intake of cholesterol goes down, your body makes more. When you eat larger amounts of cholesterol, your body makes less (9, 10). Because of this, foods high in dietary cholesterol have very little impact on blood cholesterol levels in most people
(11, 12).
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/dietary-cholesterol-does-not-matter
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG ~30 nmol/L

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Re: Friend's Testosterone is 780 ng/dL
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2019, 06:25:16 am »


Cataceous

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Re: Friend's Testosterone is 780 ng/dL
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2019, 06:59:32 am »
... Our body although can produce cholesterol prefers it that comes from outside. ...

Is there some evidence? Argument from authority is insufficient.

...
It is written e everywhere for example that vegan diet is linked with low sex drive and low testosterone..... and it is a cholesterol free diet.

Even if the correlation exists, it doesn't show causality. It's like noticing that wearing dresses is strongly correlated with breast cancer, and saying that dresses cause cancer.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG ~30 nmol/L

sportguy

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Re: Friend's Testosterone is 780 ng/dL
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2019, 07:06:06 am »
Quote
Individual variation in plasma or serum cholesterol responsiveness to dietary cholesterol appears independent of, and thus can't be predicted based on, baseline circulating cholesterol level.

https://www.acc.org/latest-in-cardiology/articles/2015/08/19/12/57/the-debate-about-dietary-cholesterol

Cited references are:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC424515/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1386675/

Quote
How Does Dietary Cholesterol Affect Blood Cholesterol?

The amount of cholesterol in your diet and the amount of cholesterol in your blood are very different things.

Although it may seem logical that eating cholesterol would raise blood cholesterol levels, it usually doesn't work that way.

The body tightly regulates the amount of cholesterol in the blood by controlling its production of cholesterol.

When your dietary intake of cholesterol goes down, your body makes more. When you eat larger amounts of cholesterol, your body makes less (9, 10). Because of this, foods high in dietary cholesterol have very little impact on blood cholesterol levels in most people
(11, 12).
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/dietary-cholesterol-does-not-matter



You only focused on body production AND NOT about which type of cholesterol body prefers to use, and that what my message was about. From Permutter body needs all the time cholesterol from diet since it prefers to use it.

But I can provide other names.

Anyway do as you wish eat a fat free diet. I continue to do what I think it’s right and keeping my natural T production higher as I can. From what I did till now it seems I did the right things.

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Re: Friend's Testosterone is 780 ng/dL
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2019, 07:06:06 am »


sportguy

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Re: Friend's Testosterone is 780 ng/dL
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2019, 07:09:53 am »
... Our body although can produce cholesterol prefers it that comes from outside. ...

Is there some evidence? Argument from authority is insufficient.


Before talking shit about what I wrote, I would suggest to buy David Perlmutter book on Amazon kindle, you can read it now from your computer. Then checks medical literature sources of the book. They are all written. Than after you checked them say “argument from authority is insufficient”. That is my point of view. But as I wrote many times do as you wish.

sportguy

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Re: Friend's Testosterone is 780 ng/dL
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2019, 07:15:02 am »
... Our body although can produce cholesterol prefers it that comes from outside. ...


Even if the correlation exists, it doesn't show causality. It's like noticing that wearing dresses is strongly correlated with breast cancer, and saying that dresses cause cancer.

Have you ever seen a vegan -wihout roids- in his peak of strength and physical shape?

I have never seen one....  that is enough for me...

I’m pretty sure the friend of the guy here who has a 780 T level is not vegan, he eats cholesterol and fat from animal sources, and he has high T not because he is from South America but because he does approx the things I do.... sport + correct diet.

ADHDandOCD

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Re: Friend's Testosterone is 780 ng/dL
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2019, 04:10:33 pm »
...
About diet I only said that your body for producting T needs a lot of cholesterol from diet.  So if you don’t eat cholesterol your body doesn’t have bricks for building T. ...

This is not correct. Our serum cholesterol is basically independent of dietary cholesterol; we manufacture what we need.

By our liver if I'm correct? 

sportguy

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Re: Friend's Testosterone is 780 ng/dL
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2019, 04:36:22 pm »
...
About diet I only said that your body for producting T needs a lot of cholesterol from diet.  So if you don’t eat cholesterol your body doesn’t have bricks for building T. ...

This is not correct. Our serum cholesterol is basically independent of dietary cholesterol; we manufacture what we need.


By our liver if I'm correct?

Does your friend eat eggs and bacon for breakfast? Red meat and other cholesterol sources?

http://www.hormones.gr/pdf/04_1498_Santos_editorial.pdf

http://average2alpha.com/cholesterol-and-testosterone-in-men/
« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 04:54:58 pm by sportguy »

Cataceous

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Re: Friend's Testosterone is 780 ng/dL
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2019, 06:41:32 pm »
...
You only focused on body production AND NOT about which type of cholesterol body prefers to use, and that what my message was about. From Permutter body needs all the time cholesterol from diet since it prefers to use it.
...

In fact dietary cholesterol is not "preferred," because absorption is poor:

Quote from: Wikipedia
Most ingested cholesterol is esterified, and esterified cholesterol is poorly absorbed. The body also compensates for any absorption of additional cholesterol by reducing cholesterol synthesis.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG ~30 nmol/L

Cataceous

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Re: Friend's Testosterone is 780 ng/dL
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2019, 06:44:21 pm »
...
About diet I only said that your body for producting T needs a lot of cholesterol from diet.  So if you don’t eat cholesterol your body doesn’t have bricks for building T. ...

This is not correct. Our serum cholesterol is basically independent of dietary cholesterol; we manufacture what we need.

By our liver if I'm correct?

Wiki says 80% in liver and intestines, also some in the adrenal glands and reproductive organs.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG ~30 nmol/L

Cataceous

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Re: Friend's Testosterone is 780 ng/dL
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2019, 06:51:56 pm »
... Our body although can produce cholesterol prefers it that comes from outside. ...

Is there some evidence? Argument from authority is insufficient.


Before talking shit about what I wrote, I would suggest to buy David Perlmutter book on Amazon kindle, you can read it now from your computer. Then checks medical literature sources of the book. They are all written. Than after you checked them say “argument from authority is insufficient”. That is my point of view. But as I wrote many times do as you wish.

Throwing out a name is not a valid argument. If you want to make your case then at least cite some of the underlying research to support your statements. Yes, this takes a little effort. But if you do then maybe we'll both learn something.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG ~30 nmol/L

Cataceous

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Re: Friend's Testosterone is 780 ng/dL
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2019, 07:13:25 pm »
...
Have you ever seen a vegan -wihout roids- in his peak of strength and physical shape?
...

I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG ~30 nmol/L

Cataceous

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Re: Friend's Testosterone is 780 ng/dL
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2019, 07:42:54 pm »
...
http://www.hormones.gr/pdf/04_1498_Santos_editorial.pdf

http://average2alpha.com/cholesterol-and-testosterone-in-men/

Reference 1: "However, with regard to these nutrients dietary cholesterol was not calculated..."

Oops.

Reference 2. The author cites a single study to support a need for dietary cholesterol, yet the study is about a switch to a low-fat diet and makes no mention of dietary cholesterol.

Oops again.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG ~30 nmol/L

sportguy

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Re: Friend's Testosterone is 780 ng/dL
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2019, 11:50:23 pm »
...
You only focused on body production AND NOT about which type of cholesterol body prefers to use, and that what my message was about. From Permutter body needs all the time cholesterol from diet since it prefers to use it.
...

In fact dietary cholesterol is not "preferred," because absorption is poor:

Quote from: Wikipedia
Most ingested cholesterol is esterified, and esterified cholesterol is poorly absorbed. The body also compensates for any absorption of additional cholesterol by reducing cholesterol synthesis.

I already cited some medical literature sources but seems you can’t accept comments that are different from your point of view.

I already told you to buy Grain Brain by David Permutter. He is a neurologist in his book he explains why cholesterol from diet is preferred by body. He is not just a name he is a best seller author. I suppose he said something interesting for selling so many copies of his book?

https://www.amazon.com/Grain-Brain-Surprising-Sugar-Your-Killers/dp/031623480X

You don’t have 13 bucks or are you too lazy read a new book?

In his book are linked all medical literature sources. I prefer to believe to a neurologist than Wikipedia...... but do as you wish.

Other authors who talk about this topic are Robb Wolf, Mark Sisson. Too much to suggest to read their books? Their are bestseller authors too...
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 12:25:53 am by sportguy »

sportguy

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Re: Friend's Testosterone is 780 ng/dL
« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2019, 11:54:21 pm »
...
Have you ever seen a vegan -wihout roids- in his peak of strength and physical shape?
...




HAHAHAHAH.... sorry but you are very funny. How can you be sure they never took roids in their career?

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Re: Friend's Testosterone is 780 ng/dL
« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2019, 11:54:21 pm »