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Author Topic: Milk and dairy  (Read 905 times)

Cataceous

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Re: Milk and dairy
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2019, 04:43:00 am »
The more I read about milk and wheat the more I get confused.
...

I think these media-induced food phobias are obscuring the most helpful, though more mundane dietary advice: aim for a widely-varied diet with a strong emphasis on whole foods. This means avoiding added sweeteners, added oils and refined carbohydrates.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)SHBG ~30 nmol/L

Joe Sixpack

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Re: Milk and dairy
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2019, 06:15:51 pm »

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4809873/

I had no idea wheat could increase prolactin levels ( less dopamine?)
Its loaded with exomorphins
Had no idea that gluten was similar with casein
Besides gluten, wheat has thousands of other proteins
And a lot more fact. Wow

Anyone here quit the wheat?
I quit wheat and oats a while ago.  I didn't really notice feeling much better until I cut out almost all carbohydrate.  My gut seems much happier if I stay below 50g of carbs a day.

BTW, that study you found is excellent.  Very interesting reading.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 06:19:49 pm by Joe Sixpack »
Age: 55, Ht: 5'08", Wt: 155 lbs
Protocol: 25 mg T Cyp + 25 IU HCG M,W,F + 2 clicks T Cream + 15mg DHEA + 15mg Pregnenalone daily.
12/2018 test results: TT: 1054 ng/dL (264-916), FT: 17.2 pg/mL (7.2-24), E2: 21.6 pg/mL sensitive (8.0-35.0)

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Re: Milk and dairy
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2019, 06:15:51 pm »


frcs

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Re: Milk and dairy
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2019, 08:23:04 pm »
I never paid to much attention to the gluten free mania.
But last days I read so much that even this gluten free gang is right just by 20% of the health effects I have to think twice. I quit bread for a day and next day was crash and burn. Same as milk. I think I have to tapper off bread with the help of a good gluten free one, which I tasted some in the past and they were all like rubber or near that.

Oats came to my mind. I cant quit oats. My god, that aroma.
I got to quit some of these foods as an experiment but Im not in the right mindset.
I am eating much less salt, a bit hard in the beggining but its on.

For breakfast what options there are?
What do you eat? I need the solid part of a breakfast but not bananas. I need something crumble.
An old friend told me, hey I eat soup. Really? Soup for breakfast? Im going to kill myself ahah.
Lunch, dinner and mid morning snack is very easy for me, I eat mostly meat, fish and veggies, soups, salads.
Breakfast is the hardest part. Damn
In winters, at weekends and cold nights if I go out to bed late I like to eat from
time to time a bit of cooked oats with milk. Its that little confort bite.
I dont touch in alchool, except red wine 2 or 3 times a week, 2 glasses.
15 years ago I drank a bottle of vodka each weekend. Most of my pals drink alchool like teens and they are not sick, maybe one. They all look old though. I lost the pleasure of being drunk.
My sin is milk and bread, some desserts once or twice a week.
This stuff on casomorphines and gluteomorphines are on my mind.
Not easy.


Joe Sixpack

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Re: Milk and dairy
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2019, 08:49:23 pm »
I never paid to much attention to the gluten free mania.
But last days I read so much that even this gluten free gang is right just by 20% of the health effects I have to think twice. I quit bread for a day and next day was crash and burn. Same as milk. I think I have to tapper off bread with the help of a good gluten free one, which I tasted some in the past and they were all like rubber or near that.

Oats came to my mind. I cant quit oats. My god, that aroma.
I got to quit some of these foods as an experiment but Im not in the right mindset.
I am eating much less salt, a bit hard in the beggining but its on.

For breakfast what options there are?
What do you eat? I need the solid part of a breakfast but not bananas. I need something crumble.
An old friend told me, hey I eat soup. Really? Soup for breakfast? Im going to kill myself ahah.
Lunch, dinner and mid morning snack is very easy for me, I eat mostly meat, fish and veggies, soups, salads.
Breakfast is the hardest part. Damn
In winters, at weekends and cold nights if I go out to bed late I like to eat from
time to time a bit of cooked oats with milk. Its that little confort bite.
I dont touch in alchool, except red wine 2 or 3 times a week, 2 glasses.
15 years ago I drank a bottle of vodka each weekend. Most of my pals drink alchool like teens and they are not sick, maybe one. They all look old though. I lost the pleasure of being drunk.
My sin is milk and bread, some desserts once or twice a week.
This stuff on casomorphines and gluteomorphines are on my mind.
Not easy.
Most days I don't eat breakfast, but when I do, that's when I eat my spinach.  2-3 tablespoons of butter make spinach taste fantastic!  I used to eat a lot of eggs, but after a while I noticed that made my stomach churn for hours after eating them. 
Age: 55, Ht: 5'08", Wt: 155 lbs
Protocol: 25 mg T Cyp + 25 IU HCG M,W,F + 2 clicks T Cream + 15mg DHEA + 15mg Pregnenalone daily.
12/2018 test results: TT: 1054 ng/dL (264-916), FT: 17.2 pg/mL (7.2-24), E2: 21.6 pg/mL sensitive (8.0-35.0)

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Re: Milk and dairy
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2019, 08:49:23 pm »


frcs

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Re: Milk and dairy
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2019, 09:13:42 pm »
2 or 3 tablespoons or teaspoons?
I cant eat that amount of butter 😁

frcs

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Re: Milk and dairy
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2019, 11:21:59 am »
Found a lab near with some urine tests that are not requested often. Even the receptionist didnt know them. Casomorphin and gliadorphin. I want to see my levels next week maybe. Insurance does not pay them so 50 eur each.

Joe Sixpack

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Re: Milk and dairy
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2019, 05:25:53 pm »
2 or 3 tablespoons or teaspoons?
I cant eat that amount of butter 😁
Tablespoons my friend.  I am on a high fat/low carb diet.  I put butter on everything, even my fatty steaks.
Age: 55, Ht: 5'08", Wt: 155 lbs
Protocol: 25 mg T Cyp + 25 IU HCG M,W,F + 2 clicks T Cream + 15mg DHEA + 15mg Pregnenalone daily.
12/2018 test results: TT: 1054 ng/dL (264-916), FT: 17.2 pg/mL (7.2-24), E2: 21.6 pg/mL sensitive (8.0-35.0)

frcs

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Re: Milk and dairy
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2019, 08:26:02 pm »
I like butter a lot, unsalted but I cant eat that much 😁

frcs

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Re: Milk and dairy
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2019, 08:34:26 pm »
 Gluten exorphin B5 (GE-B5) is a food-derived opioid peptide identified in digests of wheat gluten. We have recently shown that GE-B5 stimulates prolactin (PRL) secretion in rats; this effect is abolished by preadministration of the opioid receptor antagonist naloxone. However, since the structure of naloxone allows it to cross the blood-brain barrier (BBB) and antagonize opioid effects centrally as well as peripherally, it could not established, on the basis of those data, if GE-B5-induced PRL release is exerted through sites located inside or outside the BBB. In this study, we sought to determine the site of action of GE-B5 on PRL secretion, by pretreating male rats with naloxone methobromide (NMB), an opioid antagonist that does not cross the BBB. Four groups of rats were given the following treatments: 1) intravenous vehicle; 2) intravenous GE-B5 (3 mg kg(-1) body weight); 3) intraperitoneal NMB (5 mg kg(-1) body weight), followed by vehicle; 4) NMB, followed by GE-B5. Blood samples for PRL were taken at intervals for 40 minutes after vehicle or GE-B5 administration. GE-B5 stimulated PRL secretion; the effect was statistically significant at time 20. NMB preadministration completely abolished PRL response. Our experiment indicates that GE-B5 stimulates PRL secretion through opioid receptors located outside the BBB. Since opioid peptides do not exert their effect on PRL secretion directly, but via a reduced dopaminergic tone, our data suggest that GE-B5 can modify brain neurotransmitter release without crossing the BBB.


frcs

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Re: Milk and dairy
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2019, 11:24:49 am »
Another reason to ditch the two ?

Food-derived opioid peptides inhibit cysteine uptake with redox and epigenetic consequences.
Trivedi MS, et al. J Nutr Biochem. 2014.
Show full citation
Abstract
Dietary interventions like gluten-free and casein-free diets have been reported to improve intestinal, autoimmune and neurological symptoms in patients with a variety of conditions; however, the underlying mechanism of benefit for such diets remains unclear. Epigenetic programming, including CpG methylation and histone modifications, occurring during early postnatal development can influence the risk of disease in later life, and such programming may be modulated by nutritional factors such as milk and wheat, especially during the transition from a solely milk-based diet to one that includes other forms of nutrition. The hydrolytic digestion of casein (a major milk protein) and gliadin (a wheat-derived protein) releases peptides with opioid activity, and in the present study, we demonstrate that these food-derived proline-rich opioid peptides modulate cysteine uptake in cultured human neuronal and gastrointestinal (GI) epithelial cells via activation of opioid receptors. Decreases in cysteine uptake were associated with changes in the intracellular antioxidant glutathione and the methyl donor S-adenosylmethionine. Bovine and human casein-derived opioid peptides increased genome-wide DNA methylation in the transcription start site region with a potency order similar to their inhibition of cysteine uptake. Altered expression of genes involved in redox and methylation homeostasis was also observed. These results illustrate the potential of milk- and wheat-derived peptides to exert antioxidant and epigenetic changes that may be particularly important during the postnatal transition from placental to GI nutrition. Differences between peptides derived from human and bovine milk may contribute to developmental differences between breastfed and formula-fed infants. Restricted antioxidant capacity, caused by wheat- and milk-derived opioid peptides, may predispose susceptible individuals to inflammation and systemic oxidation, partly explaining the benefits of gluten-free or casein-free diets.


Im already on rice bread, tastes like cattle food or something.
Milk on lactose free milk but I think that will not be enough.
Ill have to go to the smoothies thing which I like too . But the adaptation will take weeks of pain 😬

Mr.L

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Re: Milk and dairy
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2019, 09:30:38 am »
Cat I know you don't like this guy but he does provide sources. I'll provide the link to the video but the sources are listed there as well. Perhaps you cold take a look at them and let me know what you think. I am no longer vegan and I use whey quite often so I am not trying to convince anyone but his presentation is ,at least, provocative

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/dairy-and-cancer/?utm_source=NutritionFacts.org&utm_campaign=595de0bece-RSS_VIDEO_DAILY&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_40f9e497d1-595de0bece-25859757&mc_cid=595de0bece&mc_eid=060fa25e00

Cataceous

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Re: Milk and dairy
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2019, 07:12:38 pm »
Cat I know you don't like this guy but he does provide sources. I'll provide the link to the video but the sources are listed there as well. Perhaps you cold take a look at them and let me know what you think. I am no longer vegan and I use whey quite often so I am not trying to convince anyone but his presentation is ,at least, provocative

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/dairy-and-cancer/?utm_source=NutritionFacts.org&utm_campaign=595de0bece-RSS_VIDEO_DAILY&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_40f9e497d1-595de0bece-25859757&mc_cid=595de0bece&mc_eid=060fa25e00

Is there a write-up of the video with the references? It's a little hard to extract them from the video. I'd want to look more closely at the absolute risks involved. It's not clear to me what specifically in milk is being blamed for any apparent negative correlations.

Personally I decided milk has more sugar than I want; switching to soy milk is cutting out about half that. Maybe in time I'll migrate to an unsweetened version of the soy milk for an even greater reduction.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)SHBG ~30 nmol/L

Mr.L

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Re: Milk and dairy
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2019, 10:24:04 am »
Cat I know you don't like this guy but he does provide sources. I'll provide the link to the video but the sources are listed there as well. Perhaps you cold take a look at them and let me know what you think. I am no longer vegan and I use whey quite often so I am not trying to convince anyone but his presentation is ,at least, provocative

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/dairy-and-cancer/?utm_source=NutritionFacts.org&utm_campaign=595de0bece-RSS_VIDEO_DAILY&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_40f9e497d1-595de0bece-25859757&mc_cid=595de0bece&mc_eid=060fa25e00

Is there a write-up of the video with the references? It's a little hard to extract them from the video. I'd want to look more closely at the absolute risks involved. It's not clear to me what specifically in milk is being blamed for any apparent negative correlations.

Personally I decided milk has more sugar than I want; switching to soy milk is cutting out about half that. Maybe in time I'll migrate to an unsweetened version of the soy milk for an even greater reduction.

yes there are tabs under the vid with all the sources and a transcript

Cataceous

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Re: Milk and dairy
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2019, 06:31:21 pm »
...
yes there are tabs under the vid with all the sources and a transcript

Thanks, missed that. If the premise of this piece is to be accepted then it's really IGF-1 more than dairy that should be targeted. PeakT discusses the idea here: https://www.peaktestosterone.com/How_To_Lower_IGF-1.aspx
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)SHBG ~30 nmol/L

Mr.L

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Re: Milk and dairy
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2019, 06:39:20 pm »
...
yes there are tabs under the vid with all the sources and a transcript

Thanks, missed that. If the premise of this piece is to be accepted then it's really IGF-1 more than dairy that should be targeted. PeakT discusses the idea here: https://www.peaktestosterone.com/How_To_Lower_IGF-1.aspx

That makes sense but can you avoid IGF-1 in dairy? I consume a lot of whey protein is it in that as well do you know?

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Re: Milk and dairy
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2019, 06:39:20 pm »