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Author Topic: how was your sleep pre-trt?  (Read 699 times)

Redrak

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how was your sleep pre-trt?
« on: February 12, 2019, 10:21:09 am »
i can’t get more than seven hours per night even with melatonin and exercise 3-4 days per week. im trying my best. i just ask because people commonly say they sleep a lot when low t but im not wanting to even take naps. this is coming from tests at 150 ish

HRD LVN

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Re: how was your sleep pre-trt?
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2019, 01:28:25 pm »
i can’t get more than seven hours per night even with melatonin and exercise 3-4 days per week. im trying my best. i just ask because people commonly say they sleep a lot when low t but im not wanting to even take naps. this is coming from tests at 150 ish
What kind of T levels does 150mg/wk get you? Is your E2 in check?

I can't say TRT has helped or hurt my sleep. I suffer from unknown triggered anxiety that usually starts around bedtime to every nite is an ordeal for me. Once I get to sleep I can sleep 7-10 hours with no issues.

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Re: how was your sleep pre-trt?
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2019, 01:28:25 pm »


Redrak

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Re: how was your sleep pre-trt?
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2019, 06:35:00 pm »
i can’t get more than seven hours per night even with melatonin and exercise 3-4 days per week. im trying my best. i just ask because people commonly say they sleep a lot when low t but im not wanting to even take naps. this is coming from tests at 150 ish
What kind of T levels does 150mg/wk get you? Is your E2 in check?

I can't say TRT has helped or hurt my sleep. I suffer from unknown triggered anxiety that usually starts around bedtime to every nite is an ordeal for me. Once I get to sleep I can sleep 7-10 hours with no issues.

sorry i meant to say i have testosterone level of 150 ish yeah i get high anxiety at night . 11 is my estradiol i dont think i need sleep apnea test since im not overweight tho

Joe Sixpack

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Re: how was your sleep pre-trt?
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2019, 06:41:15 pm »
One of the major requirements to have high T naturally is lots of quality sleep.  Testosterone and growth hormone are produced when we sleep.  I would guess that a lot of guys suffering from low T would also suffer from low quality and/or low quantity sleep.  I know I did.   OF course there are other things that can cause low T.  But sleep is a major factor.
Age: 55, Ht: 5'08", Wt: 155 lbs
Protocol: 25 mg T Cyp + 25 IU HCG M,W,F + 2 clicks T Cream + 15mg DHEA + 15mg Pregnenalone daily.
12/2018 test results: TT: 1054 ng/dL (264-916), FT: 17.2 pg/mL (7.2-24), E2: 21.6 pg/mL sensitive (8.0-35.0)

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Re: how was your sleep pre-trt?
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2019, 06:41:15 pm »


Redrak

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Re: how was your sleep pre-trt?
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2019, 06:44:39 pm »
One of the major requirements to have high T naturally is lots of quality sleep.  Testosterone and growth hormone are produced when we sleep.  I would guess that a lot of guys suffering from low T would also suffer from low quality and/or low quantity sleep.  I know I did.   OF course there are other things that can cause low T.  But sleep is a major factor.

i just wonder if my low t is caused because of my sleep or low t is actually causing sleep issues. i also have low growth hormone

Joe Sixpack

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Re: how was your sleep pre-trt?
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2019, 08:54:15 pm »
Could be both.  My sleep improved somewhat after starting TRT.  WHich would indicate that the low T was partially responsible for the poor sleep.
Age: 55, Ht: 5'08", Wt: 155 lbs
Protocol: 25 mg T Cyp + 25 IU HCG M,W,F + 2 clicks T Cream + 15mg DHEA + 15mg Pregnenalone daily.
12/2018 test results: TT: 1054 ng/dL (264-916), FT: 17.2 pg/mL (7.2-24), E2: 21.6 pg/mL sensitive (8.0-35.0)

Redrak

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Re: how was your sleep pre-trt?
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2019, 09:11:37 pm »
Could be both.  My sleep improved somewhat after starting TRT.  WHich would indicate that the low T was partially responsible for the poor sleep.

thanks!
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 09:37:29 pm by Redrak »

Kierkegaard

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Re: how was your sleep pre-trt?
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2019, 10:59:53 pm »
When my T got too low when things were really bad, I could only sleep 5-6 hours per night and would wake up like clockwork approximately at 4 am.  TRT took that away, and within a year I tried experimenting by reducing my dose as much as I could and seeing what happened, and when I got too low (something like 20 mg every 4 days), I noticed I was waking up like clockwork at 4 am again. 
"The same thing that makes you live can kill you in the end." -- Neil Young

March 2014: Dx low T (158ng/dl)
September 2015: Dx hypothyroidism, other adrenal hypofunction
2016: chronic fatigue, unspecified

Depression and anxiety guide: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Help_Anxiety_Depression.aspx

Redrak

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Re: how was your sleep pre-trt?
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2019, 12:39:53 pm »
When my T got too low when things were really bad, I could only sleep 5-6 hours per night and would wake up like clockwork approximately at 4 am.  TRT took that away, and within a year I tried experimenting by reducing my dose as much as I could and seeing what happened, and when I got too low (something like 20 mg every 4 days), I noticed I was waking up like clockwork at 4 am again.

any possibility it could be related to low e2?

Kierkegaard

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Re: how was your sleep pre-trt?
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2019, 01:09:41 pm »
When my T got too low when things were really bad, I could only sleep 5-6 hours per night and would wake up like clockwork approximately at 4 am.  TRT took that away, and within a year I tried experimenting by reducing my dose as much as I could and seeing what happened, and when I got too low (something like 20 mg every 4 days), I noticed I was waking up like clockwork at 4 am again.

any possibility it could be related to low e2?

Definitely. 
"The same thing that makes you live can kill you in the end." -- Neil Young

March 2014: Dx low T (158ng/dl)
September 2015: Dx hypothyroidism, other adrenal hypofunction
2016: chronic fatigue, unspecified

Depression and anxiety guide: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Help_Anxiety_Depression.aspx

Flyingfool

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Re: how was your sleep pre-trt?
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2019, 08:28:36 am »
I have read in multiple places and anecdotally from many folks that low T causes poor sleep. The commonalities and frequency of in particular men stating that when they had low T the woke up between 3 and 4 AM was staggering to me. It not only was poor sleep or sleep disturbances. But the focus on 3-4 AM was very common specifically.

I know that natural T production for men they get a burst of T in the morning. Does anyone know how early in the morning that burst of production takes place?  It would be amazing if that burst occurs at about 3 to 4 AM and may explain why if that burst is too low, that sleep disturbance occurs around that time.

Also at least my experience again anecdotally even whe I was young was “old people” were always extremely early risers. It always seemed odd that when retired and had all the time in the world to sleep in and they are up before the sun. But when young was always hoping to sleep in.  I wonder now if this has to do with the depletion of T with age. And when they wake up due to low T at 4am they simply stay awake!

I know that when younger I had no problems sleeping. Now as my T levels have decreased, I do find myself waking and looking at my clock. And interestingly, it is almost exclusively between 3 and 4 am when I awaken.  Hummmm

Also it seems like many people sleep improves when they get proper hormone levels. This includes thyroid as well as testosterone and I suspect cortisol as well. Cortisol also has a wake response burst or peak early in morning but generally occurs about wake time in the 7-8am or so range.

to me this might be the chicken or egg scenario. I am not sure if low T causes poor sleep or rhe other way. But I suspect it is a negative cycle. Once one gets out of balance, I think the negative spiral build momentum.
52 year old, 5’-7” and 165 lbs.
exercise:swim 3x/wk & marrial arts 2x/wk

Blood tested 9/19/18

Total = 580 ng/dL (250-827) 59.9%
Free T= 6.87 (4.6- 22.4) 12.8% (10.8 calc)

SHBG= 39 10.0-50.0) 72.5%

Bio-avail= 14.2 (110-575) 8.0%

DHES =not tested %

Estradiol = 22 (<39)

DHES =231 (38-313) =45.5% tested 2/14/18

Currently on 50mcg Synthroid (T4)
TSH = 0.99
Free T4 = 1.30 (0.80 - 1.80)  =50.0% of range
Free T3 = 3.3 (2.3-4.2) = 52.6% of range
Current protocol: 100mg DIM once per day. Reduction back from 200 mg. For 12 weeks. raised total T, freeT remained basically unchanged due to increases SHBG. Estradiol decrease from 30 to 22. Felt no better and maybe worse than at 100mg DIM so going back starting 9/25/18

Redrak

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Re: how was your sleep pre-trt?
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2019, 09:40:09 am »
I have read in multiple places and anecdotally from many folks that low T causes poor sleep. The commonalities and frequency of in particular men stating that when they had low T the woke up between 3 and 4 AM was staggering to me. It not only was poor sleep or sleep disturbances. But the focus on 3-4 AM was very common specifically.

I know that natural T production for men they get a burst of T in the morning. Does anyone know how early in the morning that burst of production takes place?  It would be amazing if that burst occurs at about 3 to 4 AM and may explain why if that burst is too low, that sleep disturbance occurs around that time.

Also at least my experience again anecdotally even whe I was young was “old people” were always extremely early risers. It always seemed odd that when retired and had all the time in the world to sleep in and they are up before the sun. But when young was always hoping to sleep in.  I wonder now if this has to do with the depletion of T with age. And when they wake up due to low T at 4am they simply stay awake!

I know that when younger I had no problems sleeping. Now as my T levels have decreased, I do find myself waking and looking at my clock. And interestingly, it is almost exclusively between 3 and 4 am when I awaken.  Hummmm

Also it seems like many people sleep improves when they get proper hormone levels. This includes thyroid as well as testosterone and I suspect cortisol as well. Cortisol also has a wake response burst or peak early in morning but generally occurs about wake time in the 7-8am or so range.

to me this might be the chicken or egg scenario. I am not sure if low T causes poor sleep or rhe other way. But I suspect it is a negative cycle. Once one gets out of balance, I think the negative spiral build momentum.

thanks for posting flying!

DanMac

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Re: how was your sleep pre-trt?
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2019, 12:02:02 pm »
One word *SHIT*.
New protocol,  75mg twice weekly E5D of Sustanon

30+ year old Male from UK,  5 foot 9 1/2 tall. current weight 154  pounds, Heaviest Weight 185 Pounds,  BF % unchecked for long while.

DanMac

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Re: how was your sleep pre-trt?
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2019, 12:03:01 pm »
LOW T had insomnia, now with T.R.T sleeping much more SOUND, i take Melatonin too up 15 MG'S a night quite a Good dose, if i need a boost also but i shouldn't depend on the Melatonin supplement.  T.R.T improves all aspects of our lives if we do it right way.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 12:15:28 pm by DanMac »
New protocol,  75mg twice weekly E5D of Sustanon

30+ year old Male from UK,  5 foot 9 1/2 tall. current weight 154  pounds, Heaviest Weight 185 Pounds,  BF % unchecked for long while.

Kierkegaard

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Re: how was your sleep pre-trt?
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2019, 02:02:32 am »
I have read in multiple places and anecdotally from many folks that low T causes poor sleep. The commonalities and frequency of in particular men stating that when they had low T the woke up between 3 and 4 AM was staggering to me. It not only was poor sleep or sleep disturbances. But the focus on 3-4 AM was very common specifically.

I know that natural T production for men they get a burst of T in the morning. Does anyone know how early in the morning that burst of production takes place?  It would be amazing if that burst occurs at about 3 to 4 AM and may explain why if that burst is too low, that sleep disturbance occurs around that time.

Also at least my experience again anecdotally even whe I was young was “old people” were always extremely early risers. It always seemed odd that when retired and had all the time in the world to sleep in and they are up before the sun. But when young was always hoping to sleep in.  I wonder now if this has to do with the depletion of T with age. And when they wake up due to low T at 4am they simply stay awake!

I know that when younger I had no problems sleeping. Now as my T levels have decreased, I do find myself waking and looking at my clock. And interestingly, it is almost exclusively between 3 and 4 am when I awaken.  Hummmm

Also it seems like many people sleep improves when they get proper hormone levels. This includes thyroid as well as testosterone and I suspect cortisol as well. Cortisol also has a wake response burst or peak early in morning but generally occurs about wake time in the 7-8am or so range.

to me this might be the chicken or egg scenario. I am not sure if low T causes poor sleep or rhe other way. But I suspect it is a negative cycle. Once one gets out of balance, I think the negative spiral build momentum.

My understanding is norepinephrine, cortisol, testosterone, and other hormones (though probably not all of them) peak together at around 6:00 am for the healthy circadian rhythmed person.  The sleep disturbances and especially the early morning awakenings could be a combination of a slightly off-kilter circadian rhythm and the burst of norepinephrine magnified and/or improperly moderated by low testosterone, cortisol, and/or thyroid function, all of which are essential for managing norepinephrine and therefore the entire stress response cycle. 

The 4 am wakings were downright freaky for me.  There was a period for perhaps a year where I would wake and see it still dark out and be like, "okay, this time surely it's at least 5:00 am," and sure enough it was within five minutes of 4:00 am EVERY TIME.
"The same thing that makes you live can kill you in the end." -- Neil Young

March 2014: Dx low T (158ng/dl)
September 2015: Dx hypothyroidism, other adrenal hypofunction
2016: chronic fatigue, unspecified

Depression and anxiety guide: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Help_Anxiety_Depression.aspx

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Re: how was your sleep pre-trt?
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2019, 02:02:32 am »