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Author Topic: Would you go on TRT? if...  (Read 608 times)

OptimumT

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Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2019, 09:32:02 pm »
I definitely felt like garbage last year while in the 400s. Cleaning up on the diet, partying, and keeping to my gym routine helped get me into the 500s again.

This is the first time that I've heard partying helps. Tell us more.

I'm kidding. I hope you can feel better at some point. Interesting discussion.

HRD LVN

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Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2019, 10:54:56 pm »
Are you drinking coffee/tea or taking any other stimulants? If so, I would eliminate those and see if that makes a difference to your sleep and ultimately wellbeing.

Nope, very rarely. Recently cut out nicotine though, so hoping that will help too.
Depending on how long you smoked or chewed getting over nicotine can really reak havock with your overall mood. I got on TRT to find relief from my depression and anxiety and I believe the root or trigger for my depression was nicotine withdrawal.

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Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2019, 10:54:56 pm »


nissan1414

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Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2019, 09:09:12 am »
I definitely felt like garbage last year while in the 400s. Cleaning up on the diet, partying, and keeping to my gym routine helped get me into the 500s again.

This is the first time that I've heard partying helps. Tell us more.

I'm kidding. I hope you can feel better at some point. Interesting discussion.

Haha, yea yea

nissan1414

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Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2019, 09:11:01 am »
Are you drinking coffee/tea or taking any other stimulants? If so, I would eliminate those and see if that makes a difference to your sleep and ultimately wellbeing.

Nope, very rarely. Recently cut out nicotine though, so hoping that will help too.
Depending on how long you smoked or chewed getting over nicotine can really reak havock with your overall mood. I got on TRT to find relief from my depression and anxiety and I believe the root or trigger for my depression was nicotine withdrawal.

Not long...off and on for about a year. The last few times I relapsed into it, I went through enough to mildly withdraw again. But it's been a year since I went through an actually difficult withdrawal.

How were your levels before TRT?

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Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2019, 09:11:01 am »


HRD LVN

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Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2019, 09:13:29 am »


How were your levels before TRT?

TT 173

charliebizz

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Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2019, 03:46:35 pm »
Nobody on a forum can tell you what will work. Only way is to try it yourself. I also do not believe 550 is low for your age. It may be low for you. And may be great for someone else your age. I for one fluctuate between 290-390. I’ve tried trt a few times. Was a patient of dr crislers and we tried every single trt trick around and i never felt better on it then off. I felt slight improvement in energy but it made many other things worse. Like sleep and mental side effects. Even with low t issues I still had fun and was motivated. On trt I really start to lose motivation and my emotions are up and down. And no rhyme or reason to how I feel day by day. Over at excel make a bunch of guys share same story. That said many guys have gotten their life back on trt. If you feel you’re not yourself try it out. I have always returned to baseline even quitting trt cold turkey. And for me getting off isn’t that hard.

Hope that didn’t come across as me bashing trt. Just for me personally it’s too complicated. And our body is so complex imo fixing one hormone that throws other out of wack is far from optimal.

Redrak

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Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2019, 09:47:17 pm »
may i ask, what did you change diet wise? im planning on changing a few things

Redrak

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Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2019, 09:49:11 pm »
Lots of things yet to consider.

However.

Low 500’s for mid-30’s seems low to me. But there is as yet no labs that show your free t levels. As cat pointed out SHBG is really needed.

The effect of clomid seems potentially promising. The POSSIBLE reason you got emotional as a response was that some of the testosterone produced converted to Estradiol and thus the emotional aspect.

Also the one time you did take Testosterone you seemed to respond positively.

Those two things at least point to the fact that low T and getting properly balanced could help.

Your low body fat would tend to produce less Estradiol. But when taking T or clomid which produced T may cause your Estradiol levels to shoot up. Again  SHBG can shed some light on this.

Probably not an issue here but it may also be beneficial to get thyroid labs done. TSH, Free T4 and free T3 as a minimum.
wait... so if im low bodyfat for long period of time my e2 crashes and tests drops? would it be beneficial to gain weight and get a bit fat to increase 2 and test?

Flyingfool

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Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2019, 10:43:17 am »
I am no expert.

But I think the pituitary senses Estradiol as the marker for production of testosterone. As the estrogen comes From at least in part, from the conversion of testosterone. So if low Estrogen, the pituitary thinks the body is low testosterone and try to lroduce more T.

Higher body fat would have a bit higher conversion to Estradiol. So the pituitary would probably think there may be enough T. So not sure that adding weight will have the feedback loop you’re looking for.

Obese people with high body fat have higher estrogen and thus restricts testosterone production. And losing weight helps those folks for sure.

11% body fat to me might indicate either heavy if not “over training” or maybe not sufficient eating. Body thinks and reacts as if it is in “famine” mode and clamps down on things including messes with hormone levels.

Overtraining can cause a problem with thyroid where there is sufficient levels in the blood but it is not able to enter into the cells. So you could have low thyroid symptoms while blood tests show plenty of thyroid.   Not sure if testosterone has any similar response.
52 year old, 5’-7” and 165 lbs.
exercise:swim 3x/wk & marrial arts 2x/wk

Blood tested 9/19/18

Total = 580 ng/dL (250-827) 59.9%
Free T= 6.87 (4.6- 22.4) 12.8% (10.8 calc)

SHBG= 39 10.0-50.0) 72.5%

Bio-avail= 14.2 (110-575) 8.0%

DHES =not tested %

Estradiol = 22 (<39)

DHES =231 (38-313) =45.5% tested 2/14/18

Currently on 50mcg Synthroid (T4)
TSH = 0.99
Free T4 = 1.30 (0.80 - 1.80)  =50.0% of range
Free T3 = 3.3 (2.3-4.2) = 52.6% of range
Current protocol: 100mg DIM once per day. Reduction back from 200 mg. For 12 weeks. raised total T, freeT remained basically unchanged due to increases SHBG. Estradiol decrease from 30 to 22. Felt no better and maybe worse than at 100mg DIM so going back starting 9/25/18

nissan1414

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Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2019, 10:56:45 am »
I am no expert.

But I think the pituitary senses Estradiol as the marker for production of testosterone. As the estrogen comes From at least in part, from the conversion of testosterone. So if low Estrogen, the pituitary thinks the body is low testosterone and try to lroduce more T.

Higher body fat would have a bit higher conversion to Estradiol. So the pituitary would probably think there may be enough T. So not sure that adding weight will have the feedback loop you’re looking for.

Obese people with high body fat have higher estrogen and thus restricts testosterone production. And losing weight helps those folks for sure.

11% body fat to me might indicate either heavy if not “over training” or maybe not sufficient eating. Body thinks and reacts as if it is in “famine” mode and clamps down on things including messes with hormone levels.

Overtraining can cause a problem with thyroid where there is sufficient levels in the blood but it is not able to enter into the cells. So you could have low thyroid symptoms while blood tests show plenty of thyroid.   Not sure if testosterone has any similar response.

I've considered the possibility of overtraining as well, but everything I've read, and every where else I've asked says it's impossible.

I have been trying to workout earlier in the day as opposed to a couple of hours before bed too.

I've always been on the lighter side, and keeping weight on has been a lifelong challenge for me.

Can overtraining result from not sleeping enough? Sleep is just an endless battle for me it seems.

Starting to think my body might not be tolerating staying out past my bedtime on weekends anymore. Oddly, just 2 years ago, I was working at a nightclub 3 nights a week and doing just fine. T levels were slightly higher too. I was not lifting then.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 11:20:24 am by nissan1414 »

ghce

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Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2019, 05:36:01 pm »


I've considered the possibility of overtraining as well, but everything I've read, and every where else I've asked says it's impossible.



Reading on this forum you will find a very different answer with a lot of post advising that over training is an issue that directly effect T production negatively.
Age:57, Height 6' 3" weight 92.5KG
2014 Androderm Patches
2014-2016 Oral Andriol 160mg Daily
June 2016 Clomid/Serophene 12.5mg EOD
September 2016 no TRT all natural and supplements for the time being
February 2017 Testosterone cream 100mg daily

Sept 2016
Testosterone   8.2 nmol/l   9-38
Free Testosterone   239 pmol/l   L   250-800
SHBG:  14    nmol/L   9-60
Free Androgen index   586   >400
Oestradiol    112   pmol/L    <190
LH    2.6 IU/L Adult male   2 - 9 IU/L
FSH  1.4 IU/L Adult male L2 - 12 IU/L

22 November
T 6.8  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) L

March 2017
Testosterone:   45.0  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) H ( 1,323 ng/dl )
Free Testosterone:   1512  pmol/L ( 250-800 ) H
SHBG:   17  nmol/L ( 9-60 )
Plasma IGF-1:   227 ug/L ( 55-198 ) H
Plasma cortisol:   434 nmol/L ( 0600-1000 hrs 170-500 nmol/L )
HbA1c:   36 mmol/mol ( 20-40 )
LH:   <0.1 IU/L
FSH:   0.1 IU/L
DHT Plasma Dihydrotestosterone:   7455   pmol/L ( 223 ng/dl ) 

Reference Range Adult males  1000-6000 pmol/L

nissan1414

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Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2019, 07:54:01 pm »


I've considered the possibility of overtraining as well, but everything I've read, and every where else I've asked says it's impossible.



Reading on this forum you will find a very different answer with a lot of post advising that over training is an issue that directly effect T production negatively.

I personally believe it's very possible.

The question is, when all I do is hit the gym 4x a week for an hour or less, what else can I do to prevent it?

Redrak

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Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2019, 08:20:05 pm »
I am no expert.

But I think the pituitary senses Estradiol as the marker for production of testosterone. As the estrogen comes From at least in part, from the conversion of testosterone. So if low Estrogen, the pituitary thinks the body is low testosterone and try to lroduce more T.

Higher body fat would have a bit higher conversion to Estradiol. So the pituitary would probably think there may be enough T. So not sure that adding weight will have the feedback loop you’re looking for.

Obese people with high body fat have higher estrogen and thus restricts testosterone production. And losing weight helps those folks for sure.

11% body fat to me might indicate either heavy if not “over training” or maybe not sufficient eating. Body thinks and reacts as if it is in “famine” mode and clamps down on things including messes with hormone levels.

Overtraining can cause a problem with thyroid where there is sufficient levels in the blood but it is not able to enter into the cells. So you could have low thyroid symptoms while blood tests show plenty of thyroid.   Not sure if testosterone has any similar response.

thanks!

nissan1414

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Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2019, 03:39:22 pm »
I definitely felt like garbage last year while in the 400s. Cleaning up on the diet, partying, and keeping to my gym routine helped get me into the 500s again.

This is the first time that I've heard partying helps. Tell us more.

I'm kidding. I hope you can feel better at some point. Interesting discussion.

ooops - replied twice to this
« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 03:41:59 pm by nissan1414 »

nissan1414

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Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2019, 03:40:12 pm »
Are you drinking coffee/tea or taking any other stimulants? If so, I would eliminate those and see if that makes a difference to your sleep and ultimately wellbeing.

Nope, very rarely. Recently cut out nicotine though, so hoping that will help too.
Depending on how long you smoked or chewed getting over nicotine can really reak havock with your overall mood. I got on TRT to find relief from my depression and anxiety and I believe the root or trigger for my depression was nicotine withdrawal.

Very off and on for years. Months off, then months on. Been off just over a month but had a small relapse last week while trying to kick it for good this time.

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Re: Would you go on TRT? if...
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2019, 03:40:12 pm »