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Author Topic: question about clomid  (Read 472 times)

Redrak

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question about clomid
« on: April 16, 2019, 09:10:49 am »
hello guys! uro told me i should try clomid 12.5 first before TRT. i have been taking it around 1 month and 1 week and i have not seen any improvements in libido, erection, etc. recovery in the gym seems to be the same. anxiety and depression got worst during the first 3 weeks. more moody and emotional too.

i had some good energy days. but not many. it seems to not be working.

is this usual?

im suppost to take blood test next week.

before this my LH was in the lower end at 2.1, FSH 1.9, Total T in the 100-200, free T in the 2. DHEA was 6, estradiol 8 free t3 came in low.

other things i noticed at the start of treatment was that i got more sweaty, my hands started to be less dry too.

how exactly will i know if this worked or not? if i have high numbers in paper but have the same symptoms then it’s not testosterone related?

Cataceous

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Re: question about clomid
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2019, 12:26:32 pm »
Unfortunately this sort of thing can happen with Clomid. But do check lab work to see if anything looks off and a dose adjustment or AI might help. Be sure to measure at least SHBG, LH, FSH, total testosterone and estradiol.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG ~30 nmol/L

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Re: question about clomid
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2019, 12:26:32 pm »


Redrak

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Re: question about clomid
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2019, 02:02:17 pm »
Unfortunately this sort of thing can happen with Clomid. But do check lab work to see if anything looks off and a dose adjustment or AI might help. Be sure to measure at least SHBG, LH, FSH, total testosterone and estradiol.

thanks for repying!

ghce

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Re: question about clomid
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2019, 02:43:09 pm »
Will be interested to see your blood results. I can only echo exactly what Cat has said.
Age:57, Height 6' 3" weight 92.5KG
2014 Androderm Patches
2014-2016 Oral Andriol 160mg Daily
June 2016 Clomid/Serophene 12.5mg EOD
September 2016 no TRT all natural and supplements for the time being
February 2017 Testosterone cream 100mg daily

Sept 2016
Testosterone   8.2 nmol/l   9-38
Free Testosterone   239 pmol/l   L   250-800
SHBG:  14    nmol/L   9-60
Free Androgen index   586   >400
Oestradiol    112   pmol/L    <190
LH    2.6 IU/L Adult male   2 - 9 IU/L
FSH  1.4 IU/L Adult male L2 - 12 IU/L

22 November
T 6.8  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) L

March 2017
Testosterone:   45.0  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) H ( 1,323 ng/dl )
Free Testosterone:   1512  pmol/L ( 250-800 ) H
SHBG:   17  nmol/L ( 9-60 )
Plasma IGF-1:   227 ug/L ( 55-198 ) H
Plasma cortisol:   434 nmol/L ( 0600-1000 hrs 170-500 nmol/L )
HbA1c:   36 mmol/mol ( 20-40 )
LH:   <0.1 IU/L
FSH:   0.1 IU/L
DHT Plasma Dihydrotestosterone:   7455   pmol/L ( 223 ng/dl ) 

Reference Range Adult males  1000-6000 pmol/L

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Re: question about clomid
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2019, 02:43:09 pm »


HRT Guru

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Re: question about clomid
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2019, 03:26:11 pm »
Too, knowing where you started with TT and LH would be helpful to knowing if you're primary or secondary Hypogonadal as if it's the testes that are the problem there's no point in stimulating through Clomid (or HCG mono, either).
Note 12.5mg is a good dose, not too much, is typically overdosed at 25 to even 50mg, per day, which most certainly causes estrogen problems.

ghce

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Re: question about clomid
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2019, 03:43:55 pm »
I can also add that an AI can be very effective in mitigating the effects of E2 that Clomid promotes.

My own personal experience with a dosage of 12.5mg 3 days a week is that getting the AI dose optimal makes a large difference to all aspects from ED, EQ and mental well being, cracking the libido paradigm is my last frontier the presumption is that I still have not got the AI correct yet.
Age:57, Height 6' 3" weight 92.5KG
2014 Androderm Patches
2014-2016 Oral Andriol 160mg Daily
June 2016 Clomid/Serophene 12.5mg EOD
September 2016 no TRT all natural and supplements for the time being
February 2017 Testosterone cream 100mg daily

Sept 2016
Testosterone   8.2 nmol/l   9-38
Free Testosterone   239 pmol/l   L   250-800
SHBG:  14    nmol/L   9-60
Free Androgen index   586   >400
Oestradiol    112   pmol/L    <190
LH    2.6 IU/L Adult male   2 - 9 IU/L
FSH  1.4 IU/L Adult male L2 - 12 IU/L

22 November
T 6.8  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) L

March 2017
Testosterone:   45.0  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) H ( 1,323 ng/dl )
Free Testosterone:   1512  pmol/L ( 250-800 ) H
SHBG:   17  nmol/L ( 9-60 )
Plasma IGF-1:   227 ug/L ( 55-198 ) H
Plasma cortisol:   434 nmol/L ( 0600-1000 hrs 170-500 nmol/L )
HbA1c:   36 mmol/mol ( 20-40 )
LH:   <0.1 IU/L
FSH:   0.1 IU/L
DHT Plasma Dihydrotestosterone:   7455   pmol/L ( 223 ng/dl ) 

Reference Range Adult males  1000-6000 pmol/L

Redrak

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Re: question about clomid
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2019, 07:00:43 pm »
Will be interested to see your blood results. I can only echo exactly what Cat has said.

thanks for replying!

Redrak

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Re: question about clomid
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2019, 07:05:32 pm »
Too, knowing where you started with TT and LH would be helpful to knowing if you're primary or secondary Hypogonadal as if it's the testes that are the problem there's no point in stimulating through Clomid (or HCG mono, either).
Note 12.5mg is a good dose, not too much, is typically overdosed at 25 to even 50mg, per day, which most certainly causes estrogen problems.

hello! well my TT is in the 100 while my LH haves been in the 1.9-2.1 range starts at 1.9 if i remember correctly. fsh is also low guessing it’s secundary. endo already said im hypogonadal but never mentioned secundary or primary.
yeah im giving clomid a try and see how it goes. i also want to see the labs but i feel almost the same in terms of energy and libido, erection, etc.

some days i have blurry vision. i read clomid causes vision problems but tbh i had this pre clomid also. not everyday tho.

Redrak

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Re: question about clomid
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2019, 07:08:11 pm »
I can also add that an AI can be very effective in mitigating the effects of E2 that Clomid promotes.

My own personal experience with a dosage of 12.5mg 3 days a week is that getting the AI dose optimal makes a large difference to all aspects from ED, EQ and mental well being, cracking the libido paradigm is my last frontier the presumption is that I still have not got the AI correct yet.

uro mentioned AI but never prescribed it. btw, im doing clomid 12.5 mg daily. the first 3 weeks were a horrible experience. mood swings, moodiness and more depression. im suppost to take labs on april 25 but i still need to get free T and shbg labs. i would also like to get some thyroid labs like T3 T4. do you guys recommend getting free t3 instead of just T3?
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 07:15:40 pm by Redrak »

ghce

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Re: question about clomid
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2019, 09:39:30 pm »
It would be my guess that at 12.5mg every day you would very likely need an AI, a big however is that most doctors that prescribe an AI really overdose with their prescription and this gets reinforced in that most pill sizes are 1mg per pill, which is a mega dose that will crash most mens E2 and you really dont want to go there at all.

With an AI you want to micro-dose with 0.1 mg or less per dose and monitor how you feel day by day to try and get a handle on how your body reacts.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 09:54:07 pm by ghce »
Age:57, Height 6' 3" weight 92.5KG
2014 Androderm Patches
2014-2016 Oral Andriol 160mg Daily
June 2016 Clomid/Serophene 12.5mg EOD
September 2016 no TRT all natural and supplements for the time being
February 2017 Testosterone cream 100mg daily

Sept 2016
Testosterone   8.2 nmol/l   9-38
Free Testosterone   239 pmol/l   L   250-800
SHBG:  14    nmol/L   9-60
Free Androgen index   586   >400
Oestradiol    112   pmol/L    <190
LH    2.6 IU/L Adult male   2 - 9 IU/L
FSH  1.4 IU/L Adult male L2 - 12 IU/L

22 November
T 6.8  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) L

March 2017
Testosterone:   45.0  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) H ( 1,323 ng/dl )
Free Testosterone:   1512  pmol/L ( 250-800 ) H
SHBG:   17  nmol/L ( 9-60 )
Plasma IGF-1:   227 ug/L ( 55-198 ) H
Plasma cortisol:   434 nmol/L ( 0600-1000 hrs 170-500 nmol/L )
HbA1c:   36 mmol/mol ( 20-40 )
LH:   <0.1 IU/L
FSH:   0.1 IU/L
DHT Plasma Dihydrotestosterone:   7455   pmol/L ( 223 ng/dl ) 

Reference Range Adult males  1000-6000 pmol/L

Redrak

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Re: question about clomid
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2019, 09:28:41 am »
It would be my guess that at 12.5mg every day you would very likely need an AI, a big however is that most doctors that prescribe an AI really overdose with their prescription and this gets reinforced in that most pill sizes are 1mg per pill, which is a mega dose that will crash most mens E2 and you really dont want to go there at all.

With an AI you want to micro-dose with 0.1 mg or less per dose and monitor how you feel day by day to try and get a handle on how your body reacts.

hey man! trust me i do not want to go back to low e2. i have seen my estradiol at 5 and it was a nightmare. obviously now i have it higher. two things i noticed, i have less joint pain and less dry hands.

about AI i don’t know if i will continue clomid since i feel almost the same

« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 09:30:20 am by Redrak »

Redrak

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Re: question about clomid
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2019, 09:29:40 am »
guys is bloating part of clomid side effect? everyday i feel more and more bloated. didn’t happened much at start tho

Festus

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Re: question about clomid
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2019, 10:50:24 am »
The thing that jumps out at me is that you said your free t3 was low. Free t3 is apparently the only thyroid indicator that correlates well with symptoms, and if it is not right then nothing else is going to work until you fix it, so I would start with that first, get it right, and then see what if anything else is not resolved.

Flyingfool

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Re: question about clomid
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2019, 09:35:35 pm »
Get only the free T4 and free T3

Total T3 is obsolete test of very limited value.
52 year old, 5’-7” and 165 lbs.
exercise:swim 3x/wk & marrial arts 2x/wk

Blood tested 9/19/18

Total = 580 ng/dL (250-827) 59.9%
Free T= 6.87 (4.6- 22.4) 12.8% (10.8 calc)

SHBG= 39 10.0-50.0) 72.5%

Bio-avail= 14.2 (110-575) 8.0%

DHES =not tested %

Estradiol = 22 (<39)

DHES =231 (38-313) =45.5% tested 2/14/18

Currently on 50mcg Synthroid (T4)
TSH = 0.99
Free T4 = 1.30 (0.80 - 1.80)  =50.0% of range
Free T3 = 3.3 (2.3-4.2) = 52.6% of range
Current protocol: 100mg DIM once per day. Reduction back from 200 mg. For 12 weeks. raised total T, freeT remained basically unchanged due to increases SHBG. Estradiol decrease from 30 to 22. Felt no better and maybe worse than at 100mg DIM so going back starting 9/25/18

Redrak

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Re: question about clomid
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2019, 09:51:45 pm »
The thing that jumps out at me is that you said your free t3 was low. Free t3 is apparently the only thyroid indicator that correlates well with symptoms, and if it is not right then nothing else is going to work until you fix it, so I would start with that first, get it right, and then see what if anything else is not resolved.

well shitttt every doc says “tsh is fine so no need to worry about low T3. it will increase when my testosterone increases”.

thanks for replying!
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 09:53:26 pm by Redrak »

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Re: question about clomid
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2019, 09:51:45 pm »