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Author Topic: Opinions, please help guys  (Read 3660 times)

Handyandy

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Opinions, please help guys
« on: June 25, 2013, 03:05:13 am »
Hi everyone, I've been looking at this forum for awhile. I'm wondering if anyone can give some advice.

I play sports at a very high level (it's my full time job) about 4 years ago my life started to take a turn for the worse. My energy became low, my concentration was shot and I started to become depressed. I went for a few blood tests and all came back as fine (including my testosterone, my doctor said I was normal, however I now understand that most doctors consider low as normal)

I just decided to get on with my life. I put my low energy down to the fact that I'm so active, I play sports full time, I don't own a car, I cycle everywhere. I lift weights 5 to 6 days a week.

A few months ago I moved to a new team. This included moving to a new country and the training became a lot more intense. I really struggled. After training I went straight to bed. I could sleep for 12 hours a day. I became very depressed and noticed my sex dive had vanished. I decided to buy a testosterone saliva test from amazon it came back as 52pg/ml in a range of 44 to144pg/ml

I wasn't sure how valid these test could be so I decided to make an appointment at my doctor. My Testosterone level came back as 261 in a range of 250-1100ng/dl free test 47.0

I told my team doctor of the above tests and he was able to get my blood test from a medical I did to join the team late last year (about 5 months before the above tests) My testosterone was 491 which he agreed was still low for someone my age and position(I'm 30)
My team doctor thinks 490 maybe my level but maybe the stress of moving and a new job has raised my cortisol which has dragged my testosterone down to 290.
I really feel dreadful. I'm major depressed, I have no sex drive and my anxiety is very high. My body feels like its fallen apart, like I'm not recovering from workouts and my concentration is shot.
The team doctor wants me to check my levels again in a few weeks. I honestly don't feel there is anything I can do myself to increase my levels. I workout, I eat very well. I take a multi vit daily. I don't fee, TRT is an option because of the sport I play and because I do want kids some day. Could clomid be an option ? Even if I get my levels back to 490 I don't think it's enough for a high level athlete to operate. Could I jump from 490 to 800 with clomid ? Would I have to stay on clomid or can you come off after time ?
Any suggestions would be great
Thanks


Festus

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Re: Opinions, please help guys
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2013, 04:29:29 am »
I'll let Peak and the others handle the heavy lifting here, however a couple of thoughts...your symptoms sound like a harsher version of something I had and something which seems to have helped me dramatically is giving up all dairy. This was difficult at first as I need a lot of protein and calories for my activity level, but I ran across something called Dairy fatigue (kind of a form of food allergy, I have no idea how scientifically valid it is, but google it) and stopping dairy seems to have dramatically improved my energy level.

Regarding Clomid, Peak can give all the T-related affects, however the Suppversity site has a good summary of the potential problems that a SERM (which is what Clomid is) can have on athletic performance, so that is worth checking out by going to that site and searching on clomid or serm.  Also, some sports federations allow a Theraputic Exemption for clinically abnormal issues potentially like yours, however your team doctor should know about that. If TRT is banned then Clomid almost certainly would be too, however you might have an exemption.

Finally, it sounds like football might be your sport and if so, you might check out the sock-doc site for his diet philosophy. The doctor who runs that site is a hard-core endurance athlete (triathalons, etc.) and his diet philosophy is certainly counter to PeakT's in that it is high-fat, however it is possible that what is not appropriate for most of us diet-wise is actually beneficial for someone  who requires extreme endurance.

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Re: Opinions, please help guys
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2013, 04:29:29 am »


PeakT

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Re: Opinions, please help guys
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2013, 07:06:26 am »
Hi everyone, I've been looking at this forum for awhile. I'm wondering if anyone can give some advice.

I play sports at a very high level (it's my full time job) about 4 years ago my life started to take a turn for the worse. My energy became low, my concentration was shot and I started to become depressed. I went for a few blood tests and all came back as fine (including my testosterone, my doctor said I was normal, however I now understand that most doctors consider low as normal)

I just decided to get on with my life. I put my low energy down to the fact that I'm so active, I play sports full time, I don't own a car, I cycle everywhere. I lift weights 5 to 6 days a week.

A few months ago I moved to a new team. This included moving to a new country and the training became a lot more intense. I really struggled. After training I went straight to bed. I could sleep for 12 hours a day. I became very depressed and noticed my sex dive had vanished. I decided to buy a testosterone saliva test from amazon it came back as 52pg/ml in a range of 44 to144pg/ml

I wasn't sure how valid these test could be so I decided to make an appointment at my doctor. My Testosterone level came back as 261 in a range of 250-1100ng/dl free test 47.0

I told my team doctor of the above tests and he was able to get my blood test from a medical I did to join the team late last year (about 5 months before the above tests) My testosterone was 491 which he agreed was still low for someone my age and position(I'm 30)
My team doctor thinks 490 maybe my level but maybe the stress of moving and a new job has raised my cortisol which has dragged my testosterone down to 290.
I really feel dreadful. I'm major depressed, I have no sex drive and my anxiety is very high. My body feels like its fallen apart, like I'm not recovering from workouts and my concentration is shot.
The team doctor wants me to check my levels again in a few weeks. I honestly don't feel there is anything I can do myself to increase my levels. I workout, I eat very well. I take a multi vit daily. I don't fee, TRT is an option because of the sport I play and because I do want kids some day. Could clomid be an option ? Even if I get my levels back to 490 I don't think it's enough for a high level athlete to operate. Could I jump from 490 to 800 with clomid ? Would I have to stay on clomid or can you come off after time ?
Any suggestions would be great
Thanks

Hey, sorry to hear it.  You know I'd never really thought about it before, but the mental fog, anxiety and sometimes memory issues that come with low testosterone really hit me in my desk jockey type job.  Now an athlete gets hammered on both sides career wise since his job is both mental AND physical. 

Well, first of all, every symptom that you described is typical of low testosterone, so I suspect that is the primary issue.  However, and I'm sure you and your trainers know way more about this that I do, everyone, from the elite athlete to a Weekend Warrior like me has to really watch overtraining syndrome.  It can  produce identical symptoms, but I'm sure you know that so I'll go on...

As far as testosterone levels, here is a link with some "normal" testosterone levels:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Testosterone_Levels_Male

However, I can almost guarantee you that if you took the T readings of all of your teammates and opponents, you would see a big range.  And this is the same thing we see on the Forum.  There are guys with testosterone of 350 that have no low T symptoms and I've seen young guys in the 400's that are just miserable.  It's really quite variable. 

However, there is another potentially dark side of testosterone below about 350 ng/dl:  it can increase your risk factors for many medical conditions.  PM me and I'll send you my book for free if you want and it covers all the things to look for.  Most of these you will not have to worry about since you are exercising so intensely, but a couple are worth considering.

Yes, Clomid will almost for sure work for you.  But here are a few observations about it:

--It doesn't always increase libido.  In fact, I would say most guys have little or no increase in sexual desire (even when testosterone is increased).
--Most men that are low T have secondary hypogonadism and so Clomid will work for them. 
--If it works for you, it can take you anywhere from 600 to 1200.  You can go high enough to where you would need Arimidex to control the testosterone.
--There are potential vision issues, but, from what I have heard, it is quite rare:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Clomid_Risk

--Clomid decreases in effectiveness for some guys.
--I do not have any studies to prove this, but the steroid community does not consider Clomid very androgenic which sounds like it would be important in your case.
--Another option may be HCG Monotherapy?  A couple of the guys are on that right now or have been recently (with mixed success), so they can comment on that.

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/hcg_monotherapy

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Testosterone_HCG

--So have you been tested for all the standard stuff?  Blood cells counts, kidney/liver function, etc.?  And what about thyroid?  prolactin?  These are pretty cheap tests and anyone whose job depends on hormones, metabolism and immune function should have his constantly monitored imho.

--One last thing:  endurance athletes tend to have somewhat lower testosterone per a couple of studies.  This just comes with the territory and is not anything to worry about.  However, do you realize that one of your reads was actually hypogonadal?  LabCorp how has a min testosterone level of about 350 now.  And this doesn't really take into account the fact that these ranges go VERY low nor your age...
 
« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 07:28:23 am by PeakT »
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Handyandy

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Re: Opinions, please help guys
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2013, 03:44:21 pm »
Hey guys thanks for the replies. I think I may give clomid a try. TRT isn't really an option for me because of the way it is view in sports these days ( hot topic)
I did read that stress could knock your Tlevels down 30% but I'm unsure as to how I went from 490 to 261 in the space of 6 months.
One of the main reasons I suspected my testosterone was low was my aggression had disappeared. My body these days always seems to be in pain, sore back, knees, elbows. I've been this way for years. I was very surprised to find my team mates, who have trained as hard and for as long as me did not feel the same. I always had a high sexdrive but I dated a very hot girl for 8 years. Since my move we broke up and I noticed my sexdrive was also gone. We are required to take a concussion test (brain puzzles on a computer) and my score came back low. I've always been an intelligent person. I've completed 2 college courses and even ran my own business for a few years so it seems I also have brain fog.
Do you guys think stress can drop levels from 490 to 261 ?
Will clomid improve my game ? Help my mind and body to heal ?
Has anyone tried a supplement called Tblast ? Seems to have good reviews on supplement review.com
I got a full blood profile in March (no hormone levels) all came back fine. I noticed my vit D level was 30 and reading around it should be 60 to 80 so I have taken extra D and B vits

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Re: Opinions, please help guys
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2013, 03:44:21 pm »


PeakT

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Re: Opinions, please help guys
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2013, 04:52:53 pm »
Hey guys thanks for the replies. I think I may give clomid a try. TRT isn't really an option for me because of the way it is view in sports these days ( hot topic)
I did read that stress could knock your Tlevels down 30% but I'm unsure as to how I went from 490 to 261 in the space of 6 months.
One of the main reasons I suspected my testosterone was low was my aggression had disappeared. My body these days always seems to be in pain, sore back, knees, elbows. I've been this way for years. I was very surprised to find my team mates, who have trained as hard and for as long as me did not feel the same. I always had a high sexdrive but I dated a very hot girl for 8 years. Since my move we broke up and I noticed my sexdrive was also gone. We are required to take a concussion test (brain puzzles on a computer) and my score came back low. I've always been an intelligent person. I've completed 2 college courses and even ran my own business for a few years so it seems I also have brain fog.
Do you guys think stress can drop levels from 490 to 261 ?
Will clomid improve my game ? Help my mind and body to heal ?
Has anyone tried a supplement called Tblast ? Seems to have good reviews on supplement review.com
I got a full blood profile in March (no hormone levels) all came back fine. I noticed my vit D level was 30 and reading around it should be 60 to 80 so I have taken extra D and B vits

Yes, testosterone STRONGLY affects the male brain.  I cannot emphasize this enough.  This is NOT good for anyone's career and some executive are going on HRT simply for performance, as in career performance, enhancement:

https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=780.0

Low T, besides what I mentioned above can lead to "zombielikeness" and depression as well. 

I'm not saying you should do that if you have normal testosterone but just pointing out that they do it for a reason:  it works! 

I wanted to mention that you should very VERY careful of testosterone supplements in your field.  One example:  there are a bunch of irreversible/permanent AI inhibitors out there.  Looks like nasty stuff.  (There is a recent thread on someone who may have had an estradiol reading of 6 after taking one of these!  Hopefully, it's not a long term issue for him....)

Clomid may not help the mental aspect or the muscle recovery aspect as much as you'd like.  It's pretty individual...
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 06:36:33 pm by PeakT »
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: Opinions, please help guys
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2013, 04:52:53 pm »