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Author Topic: Doc prescribed very high dose of HCG (ovitrelle)  (Read 3980 times)

billsman

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Re: Doc prescribed very high dose of HCG (ovitrelle)
« Reply #75 on: February 04, 2021, 11:04:55 pm »
I'm jumping in here w/o reading all of the posts so please forgive me.  But I do know that there have been published studies that have found higher levels of e2 are associated with increased libido in men. I've wondered if my own experience with hCG, when I had very good libido was caused by my very high (>60) e2 levels (and eventual gyno). 

Food for thought.

Tn198989

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Re: Doc prescribed very high dose of HCG (ovitrelle)
« Reply #76 on: February 20, 2021, 06:33:08 pm »
Hello again,

So after my last post I did 3 weeks of aromasin 6.25 eod. Since I couldn't afford another full blood work so soon after the last one I only checked e2 and it came back 36 pg/ml (it was 46 before the aromasin) I continued taking the asin for another week after the blood work to drop it a little further at around 30..

anyway unfortunately I noticed a decrease in libido and erectile function. ( but I did lose a lot of water weight which is a possitive). Again I am in square one.. Not even maca works anymore and it did work before.. Anyway I checked again all of my previous bloodworks and I found that the only consistent hormone that is higher than before I ever used steroids is shbg.. My pre steroids blood work from 2014

Was total t 500, e2 38 shbg 20
My latest blood work was total t 710 e2 36 shbg 37

I know that my latest blood work seems better than the old but I didn't have Ed back then.

Could the lowering of shbg help or fix the issue or is it not that important if my total t is high?

And lastly, someone suggested that I should stop everything and let my body without any medication for at least 4 months and things should improve. Truth is ever since my low libido and Ed started on November 2018 I haven't stayed off everything for 4 months. I always get blood work, assume that a hormone that is not perfect is the culprit and I try to fix it.

Could that be it?? Even with optimal bloodwork could the frequent change in hormones from serms, ai's cause the low libido and ed?

Thanks in advance

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: Doc prescribed very high dose of HCG (ovitrelle)
« Reply #76 on: February 20, 2021, 06:33:08 pm »


Cataceous

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Re: Doc prescribed very high dose of HCG (ovitrelle)
« Reply #77 on: February 21, 2021, 05:25:04 pm »
I think SHBG is good where it is, and free testosterone is mid-range according to the Vermeulen and Tru-T calculators.

There is something to be said for giving things a few months to settle down without any interventions. It's looking more like the problem is not related to any of the basic parameters you've measured.

Just wondering: Did you ever try the progesterone?
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 59, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 154 lbs
Protocol: 2.4 mg T propionate subQ qd, 3.2 mg T enanthate qd, 20 mcg GnRH subQ 5.25x/d, 6.25 mg DHEA bid, 12.5 mg enclomiphene qod
Approximate levels (peak): TT: 700 ng/dL, E2: 30 pg/mL, DHEA-S: 300 ug/dL, SHBG: 30 nMol/L

Tn198989

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Re: Doc prescribed very high dose of HCG (ovitrelle)
« Reply #78 on: February 21, 2021, 11:21:14 pm »
Yes I did use it for 2 weeks.. The one for men which something like 3%..i didn't notice a difference.. But the truth is I didn't take on its own.. I had already started the aromasin so I can't tell you for sure what and if it did anything..

So since you seem to know a lot about this stuff and you have given me some pretty good advice what's your opinion?? Could all this be because I keep taking serms and ai's all the time after my last cycle on 2018? I rechecked my bloodworks and all of them had higher than normal lh cause I kept taking serms.. And I don't think I have ever been off a serm or ai all this time for more than 2-3 months.
I can't think of anything else if shbg is considered fine at this level.


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Re: Doc prescribed very high dose of HCG (ovitrelle)
« Reply #78 on: February 21, 2021, 11:21:14 pm »


Cataceous

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Re: Doc prescribed very high dose of HCG (ovitrelle)
« Reply #79 on: February 22, 2021, 02:33:47 pm »
I don't know how likely it is that the previous treatments contributed to your problems, but it's at least possible. Given that there's no obvious target for further treatment it at least makes sense to take a break and see how you feel in a few months. These things can move surprisingly slowly. For example, regaining sperm production after steroid abuse can take over a year.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 59, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 154 lbs
Protocol: 2.4 mg T propionate subQ qd, 3.2 mg T enanthate qd, 20 mcg GnRH subQ 5.25x/d, 6.25 mg DHEA bid, 12.5 mg enclomiphene qod
Approximate levels (peak): TT: 700 ng/dL, E2: 30 pg/mL, DHEA-S: 300 ug/dL, SHBG: 30 nMol/L

Tn198989

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Re: Doc prescribed very high dose of HCG (ovitrelle)
« Reply #80 on: March 29, 2021, 07:42:44 pm »
Hello again, some good news at last not yet a new blood work but feeling much better.. I was taking clomid for 1.5 months and had very low libido while also taking proviron..

After stopping clomid and continue only with proviron I regained almost 100% libido.. (Ed fixed 80%). I reckecked all my bloodoeorks and realized that the lowest my shbg ever went was 36.8 (with proviron). I am really positive that this is my issue..

 My pre cycle shbg was 20..i just wanted to know how does proviron increase libido? Is it because it increases free t by binding to shbg or is it because of the dht itself.. Or is it not fully understood how it has that effect.. Also there are other dht derivatives like anavar but they don't have ptovirons reputation for increased libido.

Ps Maca still works (except while on closed) and is by far the best supplement I ever tried for libido. ( for anyone in a similar situation)

Cataceous

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Re: Doc prescribed very high dose of HCG (ovitrelle)
« Reply #81 on: March 31, 2021, 02:23:36 am »
Glad you're doing better. I'm not sure why some guys see better libido with Proviron. The higher free testosterone should only matter when testosterone is too low to begin with. I suppose the DHT effects in the brain could help. Do you know if improvements in libido have been demonstrated in any controlled studies?
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 59, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 154 lbs
Protocol: 2.4 mg T propionate subQ qd, 3.2 mg T enanthate qd, 20 mcg GnRH subQ 5.25x/d, 6.25 mg DHEA bid, 12.5 mg enclomiphene qod
Approximate levels (peak): TT: 700 ng/dL, E2: 30 pg/mL, DHEA-S: 300 ug/dL, SHBG: 30 nMol/L

Tn198989

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Re: Doc prescribed very high dose of HCG (ovitrelle)
« Reply #82 on: March 31, 2021, 06:04:21 am »
I read some studies that said that 10% of people on finasteride had a drop in libido but it said that higher dht cannot be studied for libido due to its effects on the feedback loop and that any change in libido could be attributed to the lowering of the other sex hormones due to the dht increase. I ll keep searching. Also it's not just libido that is better.. Erections are better too

After my previous message I took another blood work for total t, e2, shbg, dht so we will have a clear picture of what is going on. Results will be back on Friday and I ll post them here.

I was just hoping that it was due to free t increase/lowering of shbg because shbg is the only hormone that has doubled since I used steroids (or since I used serms after steroids) and it would mean that it would stay low after discontinuing proviron.. If it is the higher dht then I need higher than normal dht to have a decent libido which isn't ideal.

Tn198989

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Re: Doc prescribed very high dose of HCG (ovitrelle)
« Reply #83 on: April 05, 2021, 05:31:53 am »
Hello again,
I got the blood work results
Total 780ng/dl
E2 43pg/ml
Shbg 40nmol

Unfortunately libido and erection have dropped significantly.
I started proviron a month ago while still being on clomid. On the second week and after stopping clomid the libido effect kicked in. That lasted for 3 weeks up until 2 days ago.

So I wanted to ask. Was it because of androgen sudden increase and then it flattened out after 3 weeks?

Could the binding efect on shbg free up estrogen and that caused the libido loss?

The shbg came back 40 which for me is high, does the proviron bind some of that so in reality the working shbg is much less or not?

Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance

Cataceous

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Re: Doc prescribed very high dose of HCG (ovitrelle)
« Reply #84 on: April 06, 2021, 02:05:01 am »
It sounds to me like the honeymoon period that often follows protocol changes. For example, if I add use of a little testosterone cream to my injections then I experience a boost for a couple weeks or so. It's unfortunate that this kind of benefit doesn't seem to last. There's speculation that a temporary boost in dopamine is an element of the phenomenon.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 59, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 154 lbs
Protocol: 2.4 mg T propionate subQ qd, 3.2 mg T enanthate qd, 20 mcg GnRH subQ 5.25x/d, 6.25 mg DHEA bid, 12.5 mg enclomiphene qod
Approximate levels (peak): TT: 700 ng/dL, E2: 30 pg/mL, DHEA-S: 300 ug/dL, SHBG: 30 nMol/L

Tn198989

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Re: Doc prescribed very high dose of HCG (ovitrelle)
« Reply #85 on: April 06, 2021, 03:55:48 am »
It could be but wouldn't I feel that with clomid, hcg, nolva? I've tried them many times without this effect. I think there is something that proviron specifically does that helps with my libido more than anything else. That's why I think that if I figure out how it does it I'll find the solution.


Cataceous

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Re: Doc prescribed very high dose of HCG (ovitrelle)
« Reply #86 on: April 06, 2021, 11:46:45 am »
It might be argued that the SERMs and hCG are different because they are stimulating natural production of testosterone, which may differ in effect from the sudden increase of an exogenous androgen. On the other hand, many guys do report a honeymoon period with Clomid.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 59, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 154 lbs
Protocol: 2.4 mg T propionate subQ qd, 3.2 mg T enanthate qd, 20 mcg GnRH subQ 5.25x/d, 6.25 mg DHEA bid, 12.5 mg enclomiphene qod
Approximate levels (peak): TT: 700 ng/dL, E2: 30 pg/mL, DHEA-S: 300 ug/dL, SHBG: 30 nMol/L

Tn198989

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Re: Doc prescribed very high dose of HCG (ovitrelle)
« Reply #87 on: April 06, 2021, 04:50:56 pm »
It's the most logical explanation that I need higher free t, and an shbg of 40nmol could take some lowering. The other explanation is androgen receptor downregulation which is unlikely. I can't think of anything else that could be the reason.. I ll keep taking the proviron for another month and then I ll get another bloodwork. If shbg 20-25 I ll stop it. I'll keep you updated

Cataceous

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Re: Doc prescribed very high dose of HCG (ovitrelle)
« Reply #88 on: April 06, 2021, 07:33:16 pm »
I'll be surprised it SHBG goes down that much. Are you using 25 mg of Proviron daily, or more?
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 59, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 154 lbs
Protocol: 2.4 mg T propionate subQ qd, 3.2 mg T enanthate qd, 20 mcg GnRH subQ 5.25x/d, 6.25 mg DHEA bid, 12.5 mg enclomiphene qod
Approximate levels (peak): TT: 700 ng/dL, E2: 30 pg/mL, DHEA-S: 300 ug/dL, SHBG: 30 nMol/L

Tn198989

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Re: Doc prescribed very high dose of HCG (ovitrelle)
« Reply #89 on: April 06, 2021, 09:47:28 pm »
50mg daily.. Well I don't know exactly how low it would go or how much does proviron lowerit..From personal experience it took my shbg from 45 to 36 in a month, that's why I am optimistic.

I won't go higher than 50mg cause I don't want to increase the chances of suppression. If it drops but not where I want it I'll keep taking it until it does.. If after 2 months it still doesn't i ll look for something else like danazol, of course I ll keep an eye on cholesterol cause I ve heard it can affect it negatively.

Another reason I am hopeful is that on my pre cycle bloods my shbg was 20 so my baseline isn't high and maybe it just stayed high from all the serms that I ve been taking trying to recover.

I mean my symptoms are clear signs of low t. Watery ejaculation, Ed problems, libido problems and all of them starting after stopping a steroid cycle.

The only drawback is that sudden loss of improvement with proviron. . But I hope it's just temporary

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: Doc prescribed very high dose of HCG (ovitrelle)
« Reply #89 on: April 06, 2021, 09:47:28 pm »