Just 22-need some input

[pvm21]

Hi all. I am only 22 years old and have low T. I do have a brief history of taking prohormones, which I think have had a role in my low T. Anyways, in early april I was taking a product that had Epistane (small dose, but still a prohormone) and that was also an AI. I stopped after about 10 days, because here were my symptoms (and 2 months later, still are my symptoms)

Emotionless. Can't feel any emotions. I used to be very passionate, loving, affectionate, excitable, but now I literally can't feel anything. Zombie like. I am extremely tired and can barely make it through the day. It takes everything in my power to workout, and when I do my heart races and I get light headed easily. My endurance sexually is not very long and my libido is definitely down. More irritable/impatient than ever, and frequent anxiety.

I got blood work done in mid april and my total test was 319. LH and FSH were 1. SHBG was 19. I had the tests repeated a month later and total test was 317, LH 2, SHBG 30.

The endocrinologist I saw the first time told me to repeat tests in a month, which I did, and then when he saw those results, said its improving and to retest in 6 months and told me to see a psychiatrist. He said my testosterone levels werent that low and were close to normal. He thinks because LH went from 1 to 2 that its ok.  I decided to see a younger endocrinologist because I wasnt pleased with the first one. He said the same thing basically, except said retest in 3 months.
They both didnt have a problem with my testosterone levels because I said that I can still get erections.  Although I can still get erections and have sex, my libido is down, and my rebound time is very long. Also my orgasms arent as strong.

I personally think that my testosterone was already on the lower side, because I have recently been, in the past years, irritable, impatient, moody, fatigued and not the same libido as most my age. I think prohormone use sent it over the edge, causing these symptoms to be worse, and adding on the depression and emotionlessness.

I decided to see a specialist (that I found on this site) and I will be seeing him in a few weeks and he seems to think he can help and that having testosterone that low is infact an issue, especially at my age.

My question is about sex/erections. Ive read that a symptom of low T is ED, but does that rule out low T if you can get erections? Because although it takes a little longer, and my libido is down, I still can get an erection and I do have some libido. But my libido is only present when I am in physical contact with my girlfriend or talking about sex. Also, I don't really get morning erections, but sometimes get softer ones, and sometimes decent ones.

Also, has anyone else on low T every experienced the "zombieness" and lack of joy/passion? This has been the worst symptom for me, I feel trapped because I have a good life around me and I can't be apart of it because of this. This symptom is new, and started in april, but I definitely think I had some underlying depression, probably from already low T.

Can anyone help me out here, is low T the issue, or are the endocrinologists right and I just need to go to the behavorial medicine dept. They already prescribed me Wellbutrin, which I didnt take, because I think Ill be fine when my low T gets treated.

Thanks!

[Ken]

Buddy,

I don't have much time right now, and will answer you in more detail Monday.  But I will say at 22 yo your total T numbers are ver low.

[Kwn]

If you have erections, it does not rule out low T.  My T was 122, and I could get an erection.

About Wellbutrin - I was in the same boat, when horrible mental shit started to happen, my urologist said - you need antidepressants.  It is probably the result of their specialization.  Urologist's job is to get T in the range.  If you get heart palpitations - he says go see your PCP, if you have mental shit - go see shrink.  His view of your health is limited to his area of expertise, it normally does not extend beyond.  It's like a plumber, if you have a problem with light switch -  he will say, call electrician.  Problem is - plumbing does not affect electricity in the house.  Testosterone affects a lot of other hormones in a body.  So, MD's are supposed to be broader-minded.  Well, they are not.  Endocrinologists are supposed to have a broader view, but often they are restricted as well.  It is my understanding that a lot of endos are diabetes specialists.  It is a common point of frustration on this forum.  Anti-aging doctors seem to be the most well versed in hormonal interactions and they tend to take a broader look at your health.
I ended up NOT taking wellbutrin, because I decided that my problems were caused by hormonal disbalances.  Taking wellbutrin can possibly make me calmer by the SSRI action, mask the real problem, and add more issues to the list. 

[Kwn]

Just to add.  I went to see endocrinologist 2 months ago.  It slipped in conversation that I am supposed to have a healthy T around 600 or more, for my age.  She said - who told you that?  It is not true.  I was just sitting there, lost what to say.  She said - everybody is different (true), and some people feel great at 400 (also true), and she will NOT prescribe therapy to someone at T=350.  Well, this is where we start to get into "what is normal".  Morgentaler says - yes, there are ranges (min and max) for T, as well as other hormones.  Some guidelines say for T min is 300, others say it is 350.  Suppose you have a man at 290.  He is low, he needs treatment.  Raise his T a bit, and he is at 315.  Normal, right?  Well, more than likely he has same stuff going on.  But based on his number, and generally adopted guidelines, no action is required.  And this is probably what a lot of MD's will decide.

[PeakT]

Hi all. I am only 22 years old and have low T. I do have a brief history of taking prohormones, which I think have had a role in my low T. Anyways, in early april I was taking a product that had Epistane (small dose, but still a prohormone) and that was also an AI. I stopped after about 10 days, because here were my symptoms (and 2 months later, still are my symptoms)

Emotionless. Can't feel any emotions. I used to be very passionate, loving, affectionate, excitable, but now I literally can't feel anything. Zombie like. I am extremely tired and can barely make it through the day. It takes everything in my power to workout, and when I do my heart races and I get light headed easily. My endurance sexually is not very long and my libido is definitely down. More irritable/impatient than ever, and frequent anxiety.

I got blood work done in mid april and my total test was 319. LH and FSH were 1. SHBG was 19. I had the tests repeated a month later and total test was 317, LH 2, SHBG 30.

The endocrinologist I saw the first time told me to repeat tests in a month, which I did, and then when he saw those results, said its improving and to retest in 6 months and told me to see a psychiatrist. He said my testosterone levels werent that low and were close to normal. He thinks because LH went from 1 to 2 that its ok.  I decided to see a younger endocrinologist because I wasnt pleased with the first one. He said the same thing basically, except said retest in 3 months.
They both didnt have a problem with my testosterone levels because I said that I can still get erections.  Although I can still get erections and have sex, my libido is down, and my rebound time is very long. Also my orgasms arent as strong.

I personally think that my testosterone was already on the lower side, because I have recently been, in the past years, irritable, impatient, moody, fatigued and not the same libido as most my age. I think prohormone use sent it over the edge, causing these symptoms to be worse, and adding on the depression and emotionlessness.

I decided to see a specialist (that I found on this site) and I will be seeing him in a few weeks and he seems to think he can help and that having testosterone that low is infact an issue, especially at my age.

My question is about sex/erections. Ive read that a symptom of low T is ED, but does that rule out low T if you can get erections? Because although it takes a little longer, and my libido is down, I still can get an erection and I do have some libido. But my libido is only present when I am in physical contact with my girlfriend or talking about sex. Also, I don't really get morning erections, but sometimes get softer ones, and sometimes decent ones.

Also, has anyone else on low T every experienced the "zombieness" and lack of joy/passion? This has been the worst symptom for me, I feel trapped because I have a good life around me and I can't be apart of it because of this. This symptom is new, and started in april, but I definitely think I had some underlying depression, probably from already low T.

Can anyone help me out here, is low T the issue, or are the endocrinologists right and I just need to go to the behavorial medicine dept. They already prescribed me Wellbutrin, which I didnt take, because I think Ill be fine when my low T gets treated.

Thanks!

I can absolutely related to the "zombieness".  I have said many times that I felt like I just existed.  Remember:  testosterone increase libido.  It does this by not just acting on mental "sexual parameters" but by increasing passion across the board, i.e. passion for life.  It makes you more alert as well and studies show it increases cognition.

I really disagree with your endo on a number of points.  But the basic thing is this:  you have classic low testosterone symptoms.  It is entirely reasonable to assume that if you went on HRT, which I'm not saying you should but am making a point, that you would get rid of many of those symptoms.  The endo does NOT know that that is not the case.  I was in the 300's and most of my symptoms went away so I am proof that such things can happen.  And it was especially powerful against the "zombieness".

Now there is no guarantee that it will work.  But your endo is denying a lot of studywork that shows the effectiveness of HRT.  PM me and I'll send you my book by the way that has just what the studies show low testosterone can do.

And that leads to another veyr important point:  low testosterone can be dangerous, especially medium and long term.  Your endo knows that and so I think it's inexcusable to just ignore that fact.  It increases your risk for heart disease, osteroporosis, anemia, metabolic syndrome, diabetes and hardening of the arteries just for starters.  Now that's not to say you WILL get any of those, but it does increase your risk and I'll bet you that none of your doctors mentioned that little fact.

 

Question:  are you overweight by any chance?

[pvm21]

Thanks for the responses...PeakT, I am not overweight...I am 5'9" 165 lbs...have varied between 7-12% bodyfat over the past few years. I asked my doctor to test Estrogen but he said it was not necessary..even though I have a history of gynocomastia and carry weight in my hips and chest...the specialist I am seeing (which I found on this site) is testing literally everything including a estrogen and cortistol. The zombie like symptom is by far the worst, especially because it came so suddenly...I had basically every symptom of low T except that, which is the one that forced me to go get help...I miss being excited and passionate about life, and loving to my loved ones.

I think clomid/hcg will help because my LH is low and my testicles are not shrunken. If my LH was high I assume that would signal I have a problem in my testicles.

This site may eventually be what saved my life, if this does get resolved, because without it, I would have never questioned by doctors.

[PeakT]

Thanks for the responses...PeakT, I am not overweight...I am 5'9" 165 lbs...have varied between 7-12% bodyfat over the past few years. I asked my doctor to test Estrogen but he said it was not necessary..even though I have a history of gynocomastia and carry weight in my hips and chest...the specialist I am seeing (which I found on this site) is testing literally everything including a estrogen and cortistol. The zombie like symptom is by far the worst, especially because it came so suddenly...I had basically every symptom of low T except that, which is the one that forced me to go get help...I miss being excited and passionate about life, and loving to my loved ones.

I think clomid/hcg will help because my LH is low and my testicles are not shrunken. If my LH was high I assume that would signal I have a problem in my testicles.

This site may eventually be what saved my life, if this does get resolved, because without it, I would have never questioned by doctors.

This stuff can be tricky, so keep asking questions of your docs and keep pushing them. 

Hey, your prohormone comment - God only know what is in some of those - reminded me of this guy's comments:

https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=307.msg2734#msg2734

This thread seems very germaine and so you may want to check it out...

[pvm21]

If secondary hypo is the issue, would that have less effect on erections than if it was primary? since the testicles are in tact?

[bzarfas]

I can absolutely related to the "zombieness".  I have said many times that I felt like I just existed.  Remember:  testosterone increase libido.  It does this by not just acting on mental "sexual parameters" but by increasing passion across the board, i.e. passion for life.  It makes you more alert as well and studies show it increases cognition.

I really disagree with your endo on a number of points.  But the basic thing is this:  you have classic low testosterone symptoms.  It is entirely reasonable to assume that if you went on HRT, which I'm not saying you should but am making a point, that you would get rid of many of those symptoms.  The endo does NOT know that that is not the case.  I was in the 300's and most of my symptoms went away so I am proof that such things can happen.  And it was especially powerful against the "zombieness".

And that leads to another veyr important point:  low testosterone can be dangerous, especially medium and long term.  Your endo knows that and so I think it's inexcusable to just ignore that fact.  It increases your risk for heart disease, osteroporosis, anemia, metabolic syndrome, diabetes and hardening of the arteries just for starters.  Now that's not to say you WILL get any of those, but it does increase your risk and I'll bet you that none of your doctors mentioned that little fact.

 

Question:  are you overweight by any chance?

I have a question:
I know a guy who is overweight (potbelly) and he has decided this year(he just turned 38) that he is going to get into the best shape of his life.
He had a (  Im not sure if they use a salivia or a blood test) testoterone test and his total test is 338ng/dl.
I was wondering thought on getting TRT to boost him up to a normal level.  There are now so many TRT clinic in my area, which all claim to test you, via blood test, and, they say on their site,"You'll have your test results in less than 30 minutes. If your test indicates your testosterone levels are below 350 nG/DL we will administer your first injection on the spot.
so they would test him, see his low test level, then give him a shot to boost his test level. then they check him every  7-10 days.
so while he's losing weight, he could be at a normal level of test,

I dont know how why it would ever stop though?
if he's at a low test now because he's fat, high stress job, eats a lot of bads foods.
so he's at 338 and gets a shot and now he's at 500-700
then he starts losing weight and eating and sleeping,  but won't his testostrone production be lower because of the shot?
so even though he might be normal if he had never had a shot, and 2-3 months of dieting/sleeping/ lower stress. because he had the shot, its a catch22 issue, and he'll have to keep getting shots or his testosterone will fall like a rock
or will he just need some anti-aromotaste stuff, like HCG?

I dont think he should do it, I told him just work hard at long term effect of chaning your life habbits for the better

thanks
 
if a man is going to start dieting and doing what it takes to restore his Test. levels, I dont think he should use TRT, even for a while.  I dont think it's worth the risk.
but after he gets his weight down and does the things this site does, what if his symoptoms dont go away and his blood tests confirms he has low test, should be do trt then?
how long should he wait for his body to start making more test once he gets to a good weight/sleeps/eats right?
thanks

[PeakT]

If secondary hypo is the issue, would that have less effect on erections than if it was primary? since the testicles are in tact?

Hmmm.  Not that I know of.  But we have rarely had primary men on here.  Some of the things that cause primary are rather severe though.