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Author Topic: Gel Absorption  (Read 690 times)

billsman

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Gel Absorption
« on: December 27, 2020, 09:58:03 pm »
So I have been back on Androgel for about 4 years after being in hCG for 10 years and injectable testosterone after that for about 1 year.  During these past 4 years, my testosterone levels have fallen steadily (from around 600 to 280).  I take 75 mgs per day - same dose for all 4 years.   

I cannot figure out why this is happening.  I use the brand, not a generic.  I apply it to my shoulders and abs and allow it to dry completely. 

Any ideas anyone? 

doin it

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Re: Gel Absorption
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2020, 11:04:30 pm »
Shoulder/abs skin saturated, no longer responsive ?

Try other sites, inner/ top of thighs, inner wrists maybe ?
« Last Edit: December 27, 2020, 11:06:33 pm by doin it »

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Re: Gel Absorption
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2020, 11:04:30 pm »


Cataceous

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Re: Gel Absorption
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2020, 12:21:35 pm »
I had this problem with Androgel, though over a much shorter time frame. I've used injections since then.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 59, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 154 lbs
Protocol: 2.4 mg T propionate subQ qd, 3.2 mg T enanthate qd, 20 mcg GnRH subQ 5.25x/d, 6.25 mg DHEA bid, 12.5 mg enclomiphene qod
Approximate levels (peak): TT: 700 ng/dL, E2: 30 pg/mL, DHEA-S: 300 ug/dL, SHBG: 30 nMol/L

ghce

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Re: Gel Absorption
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2020, 06:49:45 am »
You could switch to a compounded cream, I have always been very a bit dubious about the use of gels rather than compounded cream but its just as likely that you are suffering from desensitised receptors so try some different skin.
Age:59, Height 6' 3" weight 92.5KG
2014 Androderm Patches
2014-2016 Oral Andriol 160mg Daily
June 2016 Clomid/Serophene 12.5mg EOD
September 2016 no TRT all natural and supplements for the time being
February 2017 Testosterone cream 100mg daily

Sept 2016
Testosterone   8.2 nmol/l   9-38
Free Testosterone   239 pmol/l   L   250-800
SHBG:  14    nmol/L   9-60
Free Androgen index   586   >400
Oestradiol    112   pmol/L    <190
LH    2.6 IU/L Adult male   2 - 9 IU/L
FSH  1.4 IU/L Adult male L2 - 12 IU/L

22 November
T 6.8  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) L

March 2017
Testosterone:   45.0  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) H ( 1,323 ng/dl )
Free Testosterone:   1512  pmol/L ( 250-800 ) H
SHBG:   17  nmol/L ( 9-60 )
Plasma IGF-1:   227 ug/L ( 55-198 ) H
Plasma cortisol:   434 nmol/L ( 0600-1000 hrs 170-500 nmol/L )
HbA1c:   36 mmol/mol ( 20-40 )
LH:   <0.1 IU/L
FSH:   0.1 IU/L
DHT Plasma Dihydrotestosterone:   7455   pmol/L ( 223 ng/dl ) 
Reference Range Adult males  1000-6000 pmol/L

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Re: Gel Absorption
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2020, 06:49:45 am »


cujet

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Re: Gel Absorption
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2020, 01:17:47 pm »
I initially had great results with Androgel. Unfortunately, it caused my skin to thicken slightly and to use a highly technical medical term, feel weirdly clammy. In any case, my T numbers were very low, (around 170 ng/dl) despite slathering on more gel than I could stand.

I tried different brands, such as Testim and Axiron, with generally poor results, and some additional skin problems. Those problems were so bad, I went to a dermatologist. He immediately took me off the T products and put me on a 10% compounded creme made by Professional Arts Pharmacy in Baltimore, Maryland. The doc claimed that this particular compounded T creme was extremely effective (he used it himself) and caused no skin problems. He was right, as T levels were steadily repeatable at 700-725 ng/dl and my skin problems disappeared. Also made me horny as hell.

Fast forward some years, and I have no longer been able to procure that compounded creme. Maybe due to new regulations or policies. In any case, I've switched to a 10% creme made locally and T levels dropped to 400-450, even with very liberal use.
57 years old
Autoimmune Hashimoto's, near zero natural T production
Cause: severe mononucleosis in my early 30's
Weight 220
Height 5' 10"
180mg NPthyroid (natural desiccated pigs thyroid)
Labs (Oct 2017) , my T=730, TSH 0.03, T3+T4 mid-range normal.
 
10% compounded creme. T=725, which feels just right.

bluesjunky74

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Re: Gel Absorption
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2020, 05:44:11 pm »
Androgel worked for me for about 5 months and then my T numbers fell off a cliff (All the way down to around 150 or so. I remember how awkward it was for the nurse to tell me the results over the phone--the number was so low she sounded concerned for me). Since then I've been on Depo-T and my levels stay much more consistent. Sounds like many guys have had similar experiences to me. My urologist says over time it tends to be poorly absorbed. He says he never prescribes it for that reason (It was a different Dr. who prescribed it to me).

billsman

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Re: Gel Absorption
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2021, 02:41:24 pm »
Thanks to all for responding.   Sounds like this is a common occurrence.  It's strange because when I first started TRT way back about 25 years ago, I was on gel for at least 5 years and had no issues.

So here's my dilemma:  In the past, I felt best when I was on hCG, but eventually had very high E2.  I took anastrozole  for the last year (I was on it for 10 years) but my doc is reluctant to keep me on that permanently b/c there are no long term studies in men.  I also took testosterone injections for about 2 years, but developed polycythemia and had to do therapeutic phlebotomy, which resulted in low iron levels (and it took forever to get those up).   

So what to do?       :-\

cujet

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Re: Gel Absorption
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2021, 05:08:31 pm »


So what to do?       :-\

I'd consider switching to a 10% compounded creme. "IF" you can determine what base the folks at "Professional Arts Pharmacy" in MD use, I'd guess that would be a most effective and trouble free creme. It easily achieved 700 T levels.
57 years old
Autoimmune Hashimoto's, near zero natural T production
Cause: severe mononucleosis in my early 30's
Weight 220
Height 5' 10"
180mg NPthyroid (natural desiccated pigs thyroid)
Labs (Oct 2017) , my T=730, TSH 0.03, T3+T4 mid-range normal.
 
10% compounded creme. T=725, which feels just right.

doin it

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Re: Gel Absorption
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2021, 02:14:49 am »

billsman

If you find out the name of the cream base used that cujet refers to, please share it with the rest of us.

Thanks

cujet

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Re: Gel Absorption
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2021, 11:33:06 pm »

billsman

If you find out the name of the cream base used that cujet refers to, please share it with the rest of us.

Thanks

I called Professional Arts Pharmacy and spoke with the receptionist. She asked the pharmacist and the response was "HRT" base (I'm not at all sure that's a brand). In any case, it's a creme about the look of white toothpaste, about half as thick, and spreads on smoothly. I thin it with a splash of water or witch hazel or rubbing alcohol. Then rub it in vigorously.

Extremely repeatable results, a dose of 0.75ml, resulting in: T levels, lowest being 700.1 and the highest being 725 ng/dl.

The creme I get from the local compounding pharmacy is also 10% and it's in a very thin base. Best results about 450 and not repeatable.
57 years old
Autoimmune Hashimoto's, near zero natural T production
Cause: severe mononucleosis in my early 30's
Weight 220
Height 5' 10"
180mg NPthyroid (natural desiccated pigs thyroid)
Labs (Oct 2017) , my T=730, TSH 0.03, T3+T4 mid-range normal.
 
10% compounded creme. T=725, which feels just right.

Cooper

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Re: Gel Absorption
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2021, 01:46:20 pm »
Why not use 20% compound cream from Empower Pharmacy?

billsman

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Re: Gel Absorption
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2021, 12:39:07 am »
I'm considering asking my doc to go back on hCG.  I understand that (and had the experience) that hCG mono leads to excess e2 and one usually needs anastrozole.   But, are there any folks out there who have done hCG + anastrozole long-term successfully?   

Cataceous

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Re: Gel Absorption
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2021, 01:43:11 am »
I never tried hCG monotherapy, but adding it to TRT was a case of can't live with it, can't live without it. For me TRT is better with it, but as time goes by it becomes impossible to get it right. By "get it right" I'm referring to having consistently acceptable libido and sexual function. I could see improvements with varying amounts of anastrozole and cabergoline, but it was complicated and not something I wanted to do long-term. I've assumed it's for similar reasons that we see very few guys reporting successful hCG monotherapy over long periods.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 59, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 154 lbs
Protocol: 2.4 mg T propionate subQ qd, 3.2 mg T enanthate qd, 20 mcg GnRH subQ 5.25x/d, 6.25 mg DHEA bid, 12.5 mg enclomiphene qod
Approximate levels (peak): TT: 700 ng/dL, E2: 30 pg/mL, DHEA-S: 300 ug/dL, SHBG: 30 nMol/L

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Re: Gel Absorption
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2021, 01:43:11 am »