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Author Topic: TRT is THE worst decision I've ever made  (Read 5772 times)

53chevy

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TRT is THE worst decision I've ever made
« on: January 26, 2021, 06:11:31 am »
This is more of a rant than anything else but allow me to take you on my 6 year long journey thru hell with trt.

6 years ago I ended up having low T which I'm pretty sure was the result of taking dhea for several months (which actually helped me by the way) then quitting it cold turkey. The first 3 months being on TRT was like magic. I literally felt like I was 18 again. I lost 25 lbs not even trying, had a hint of a six pack, had energy like crazy, horny like a teenager and my dick would stand straight up if the wind blew. But sadly that came to an abrupt halt just 3 months into it and I have felt like complete garbage ever since.

This is what trt has done to my body so far, besides the usual feeling like a complete pile of shit that has laid out in the sun, dried out, been trampled on then sucked up by a lawnmower and shot across the yard. It started with high BP around 150/100. Mind you my BP was ALWAYS 120/70 no matter what until trt came along. That started 3 months into it, possibly sooner but this is when the nurse first checked it the day I went in for a shot and told her trt was no longer working. I started having depression and extreme anger at this point.

It took two months to get in to see an endocrinologist which ended up being a huge waste of time. He took me off of trt for 2 months to check my LH and FSH levels. At the end of that two months they were high......well duh. My brain was screaming at my balls to make T but they wouldn't cooperate. My T was a whooping 370 2 months off of T. By this time I had already gained all of the weight that I had lost plus some, I had zero energy, zero ambition, zero libido and had no interest in anything. I'm still at that point right now 6 years later. I finally talked the endo into letting me do the shots myself (he wasn't even going to put me back on T even with a T level of 370) and started doing them every other day and the anger and depression subsided. This was due to high E. If my e gets above 30 it gets very very bad for me in multiple ways.


About a month into being back on T I started having severe heart palpitations, they just showed up out of the blue one day. I'm talking about all day long, 24/7 my heart felt like it would pound out of my chest. After a meal it would get even worse. For 2 hours after a meal my heart rate would be 120+ while I was kicked backed in the recliner and would pound even harder. I dealt with this for probably 2+ years then all of the sudden it fixed itself. I never did figure out what caused it. I still have minor palps from time to time but nothing like it use to be. About this same time my feet started burning like the pits of hell 24/7. You talk about misery, that will cause it. I was to the point that I thought I had become a bad diabetic so I started keeping a check on my sugar level. Guess what? It was just fine. Fasting glucose was just a tad high and after a meal I never saw it go above 140 so yeah, no diabetes wasn't causing it. Several months later, just like with the heart palpitations, the burning feet just disappeared. I have no clue.

After I got fed up with the endo because he was a complete moron I started doing my own labs and noticed that my sodium had jumped 6-8 numbers from pre trt levels, my CO2 had dropped 6-8 numbers and my potassium had went up. So I began a 3 year long journey on researching kidneys and acidosis trying multiple things along the way to get my kidneys back to normal. Nothing helped. I pee maybe twice a day now and I retain water like a woman on her period. I wake up every morning with my hands and feet swollen so bad that some times I can barely close my fist. Gee, I wonder why my BP is so much higher? I'll get back to the kidneys in a minute.

Somewhere along the way I started feeling extremely bloated 24/7 to the point where if I eat just a sandwich I feel like I have eaten a huge Thanksgiving meal. It is absolutely miserable. By the way, I have no appetite anymore. I eat because I know I have to. I use to love food but now I crave nothing. I eat a small breakfast and then supper later at night and my stomach never growls and I don't crave food but I always feel completely full. Misery.

What's next? Let's see, as I mentioned I get no enjoyment from anything, I don't want to do anything and if I could sleep 24/7 I would. I have to force myself to do my daily chores much less work on any hobbies. I don't enjoy them anymore which is the complete opposite of what I use to be. I was always planning, thinking about or working on some project, I lived for my projects and hobbies. I couldn't care less about any of them now. Oh yeah, almost forgot, I haven't had sex since I've been on TRT, that's 6 years, and you know what? I don't care. I have absolutely no desire for a woman and that is the weirdest feeling considering I use to be horny 24/7, literally.

We can't forget the fact that I had to give blood every 2 months because trt caused my hematocrit and hemoglobin to go high. I was actually told by one doctor that trt doesn't cause that.  ;D That's weird because every time I've come off trt they both would drop back to normal.

Oh I forgot another thing, I developed a thyroid nodule that was discovered 3 months into trt by the idiot endo. That's about the only thing he accomplished was finding that. My thyroid levels are where they were pre trt but the nodule is big enough that the otolaryngologist says that it's over the size that he would normally remove BOTH sides of my thyroid. I said unless you can prove it's cancerous HELL NO. I've got enough trouble with what trt has done to my body much less having to regulate thyroid along with it.

A year and a half ago I discovered that I have "sleep apnea". Now this is where things get interesting. I live alone so I have no one to tell me if I actually quit breathing so I set up a camera and recorded myself sleeping for about 2 months. I would also wear a pulse oximeter that records, I would look at the data and see where my o2 would drop, then I'd go to the video and see if I had in fact quit breathing. Nope, didn't quit breathing, no snoring, no struggling to breathe either. Here's what's going on with that, for whatever reason I have become an extremely shallow breather. My o2 levels whilst awake and moving are usually 95-97. If I sit down it will drop to 92-94. When I lay down, not even about to go to sleep, it will drop to 90, sometimes 89 and that's when I'm wide awake. While I'm sleeping it will hover around 91-92 but then dip into the 80's ever so often. Ever since I discovered this I've paid attention to my breathing and I breathe very very shallow most of the time. I can take a "normal" breath and my o2 jumps to 99+. I have a theory about this and here it is, remember my CO2 has dropped 6-8 numbers? Well from what I have gathered from research is that CO2 levels control your breathing rate. If your co2 is high you will breath more rapidly and deeper trying to blow off the co2. So I figure since my co2 is low I am breathing less and shallower therefore I have "sleep apnea", but not from obstruction. I also have a touch of central sleep apnea because sometimes as I am falling asleep I wake up and take a huge breath because I am just not even attempting to breathe. Never before have I ever had that happen until trt. Ain't it wonderful???

Did I mention my eyesight? Part of that could be my age, I am 47, but I do know that when I'm on T it gets a lot worse. Driving at night I see three road signs instead of one and looking at my phone for more than ten minutes makes my left eye watery and they both start getting goop in them and I have to lay the phone down for awhile.

Next, about 14 months ago I decided I was done with trt so I quit the t shots altogether. About 5 days later out of the blue just like with the heart palps and burning feet I all of the sudden acquired asthma. I'm not talking about an asthma attack every once in awhile. This stays with me all day and all night. It feels like I have an elephant sitting on my chest or somebody has me in a bear hug all of the time. I thought maybe low T was causing it so I got back on T a few months later and stayed on it for 2-3 months with no change to the asthma. I still have it severely to this day. Primatene mist inhalers do nothing, albuterol inhalers do nothing. The only relief I get is from mucinex nasal spray with oxymetazoline in it (yes a nasal spray will make my asthma vanish for a few hours and it feels wonderful) or a double dose of diphenhydramine and sometimes nyquil. Of course those two knock me out so I don't actually get to enjoy being able to breathe for very long. I usually will fight the sleepiness until I can't take it anymore just so I can enjoy the relief for just a little while.

This leads me to the next thing that has happened. My nose stays stopped up quite a bit now. I have had to become a mouth breather because of it. Allergy meds do absolutely nothing for this either. The only relief I get from that is with the mucinex nasal spray I mentioned earlier. Mind you, I've had allergies for 20 years but my nose NEVER stopped up from them, NEVER. The worst that would happen would be sinus pressure around my eyes and forehead and antihistamines would take care of that. They do nothing now. That reminds me, it seems like no meds at all have any affect on me. It's like all of my receptors are dead and nothing works on me with the exception of mucinex and diphenhydramine helping my breathing. But here's what sucks, if I use the mucinex for more than a couple of days the rebound effect from it is unbearable so I try to only use it when I must have some relief from the asthma. I hope the asthma goes away on its own just like the heart palps and burning feet did but I'm doubting it will. My father died from a lung disease a year ago, he lasted 2.5 years with it, so yeah I'm a wee bit worried about my lungs right now. It's like all of the sudden my body is overflowing with histamine. I've done some reading on this but my mind just won't let me focus on things anymore.

The sheer fatigue that I feel every single day just wears me down. I have no strength, no physical stamina at all and I hurt all over all of the time. My memory is non existent now and my mind is a jumbled mess most of the time now. I use to have a memory like an elephant and could reason and think with the best of them. Now sometimes I feel like just your average everyday moron because I can't even think half the time.

This is my latest theory on while I feel like a big pile of shit. Like I said earlier I've studied on the kidneys for several years thinking the acidosis was causing most if not all of my trouble and it could be but nothing I have tried has fixed it. In all of my reading on the kidneys dopamine was never mentioned. Well I started researching dopamine a few months ago and guess what I discovered? Dopamine plays a huge role in sodium excretion. In fact, dopamine affects a lot of different things in the body. Anyway, here's the theory, if my dopamine is low or receptors are dead for whatever reason then the low dopa is causing me to retain sodium, hence my sodium level jumping up. This in turn causes my aldosterone to be low, did I mention my aldosterone is non existent? From what I've read sodium levels can directly affect aldosterone so if my sodium jumps up then my aldosterone drops. Aldosterone basically supercharges the kidneys to get rid of acids in the urine. If my aldo is low then I'm not getting rid of acids which will in turn cause low co2 (which is mostly bicarb on a lab test which helps buffer acids) and low co2 equals acidosis, Acidosis wreaks havoc on lots of things in the body. I don't know f any of this is actually what's happening but it's all I have to go on right now.

Low dopamine can also cause asthma. We also know what low dopamine does for energy, stamina, libido, drive, ambition etc, in other words all the crappiness I'm feeling right now.

I'm sure I've left out some small things but you get the point and that point is trt has wreaked havoc on my body and I'm afraid it's not done yet. I'm at a dead end road now because I have no clue what to do next. If dopamine or dopamine receptors are my issue then I'm probably screwed for life. If you are new here I beg of you to try everything possible before going on trt, go down every avenue, exhaust every option before you start playing with hormones because it can ruin your entire life. If this is how I have to live for the rest of my life then i don't think I'm going to make it much longer. I would give up everything I own if I could back up and never take that first shot of T and try everything else first. It is wreaking havoc on my body and I'm not even a resemblance of the man I once was.

cujet

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Re: TRT is THE worst decision I've ever made
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2021, 07:25:46 pm »
Your journey is not unlike mine. There is a lot about TRT that is not commonly known, side effects and so on. This site is about the most comprehensive TRT site around, with regard to subject matter, research articles and links.

I've had my share of health issues, and quite simply it's easy to blame some of them on TRT, but truth be told, they are what brought about my very low T in the first place. If I were healthy, I'd still have high natural T levels.

It's wonderful to have a "higher is better" attitude, and in some ways maybe it is. Muscles, stamina, libido all improve with high levels in the short term. But I can't tolerate that. I must be below 800.

Furthermore, any hormone replacement can suppress other hormones. I now have to take prednisone, just to function. Is that because of TRT, or is it because of Thyroid replacement, or is is because I'm falling apart? Attempts to stop TRT, minimize thyroid use and get off pred result in near death experiences, that truly don't seem survivable.

Sounds like you have inflammatory issues going on. I do too. My best results come from keeping TRT at 450, and absolutely below 800. Taking enough thyroid hormone to suppress TSH just below 1, and to take prednisone to offset low cortisol. Remember, cortisol is anti inflammatory.

The lower TRT levels result in good strength, even with my severe fatigue. They also result in normal red blood cell counts. Unlike when I use more.

EDIT: Also, I cycle on and off TRT. I used to do it at 6 month intervals, but lately, it's better if I do it every month. 4 weeks on, one week off. Works amazingly well for me. Also, I'm using compounded creme.

Advil helps me too.



« Last Edit: January 26, 2021, 07:29:06 pm by cujet »
57 years old
Autoimmune Hashimoto's, near zero natural T production
Cause: severe mononucleosis in my early 30's
Weight 220
Height 5' 10"
180mg NPthyroid (natural desiccated pigs thyroid)
Labs (Oct 2017) , my T=730, TSH 0.03, T3+T4 mid-range normal.
 
10% compounded creme. T=725, which feels just right.

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: TRT is THE worst decision I've ever made
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2021, 07:25:46 pm »


ghce

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Re: TRT is THE worst decision I've ever made
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2021, 09:58:55 pm »
Truly awful symptoms but also very familiar to me but thankfully not that extreme.

I too have been on TRT for 6 years but have broken up my protocols with other regimes such as T cream, Clomid and Oral T protocols and at times even coming completely off T though for me I know that I am definitely better on it than off it.

I do hope you can work out what the cause is and if not at least find some sort of regime that is less physically and mentally debilitating.
Age:60, Height 6' 3" weight 100KG
2014 Androderm Patches
2014-2016 Oral Andriol 160mg Daily
June 2016 Clomid/Serophene 12.5mg EOD
September 2016 no TRT all natural and supplements for the time being
February 2017 Testosterone cream 100mg daily

Sept 2016
Testosterone   8.2 nmol/l   9-38
Free Testosterone   239 pmol/l   L   250-800
SHBG:  14    nmol/L   9-60
Free Androgen index   586   >400
Oestradiol    112   pmol/L    <190
LH    2.6 IU/L Adult male   2 - 9 IU/L
FSH  1.4 IU/L Adult male L2 - 12 IU/L

22 November
T 6.8  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) L

March 2017
Testosterone:   45.0  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) H ( 1,323 ng/dl )
Free Testosterone:   1512  pmol/L ( 250-800 ) H
SHBG:   17  nmol/L ( 9-60 )
Plasma IGF-1:   227 ug/L ( 55-198 ) H
Plasma cortisol:   434 nmol/L ( 0600-1000 hrs 170-500 nmol/L )
HbA1c:   36 mmol/mol ( 20-40 )
LH:   <0.1 IU/L
FSH:   0.1 IU/L
DHT Plasma Dihydrotestosterone:   7455   pmol/L ( 223 ng/dl ) 
Reference Range Adult males  1000-6000 pmol/L

cujet

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Re: TRT is THE worst decision I've ever made
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2021, 11:45:54 pm »
Thyroid issues can cause a pounding heart. In fact, that's a huge factor. It's good to know thyroid levels vary markedly in healthy people. As I'm sure you know, the thyroid is a responsive gland, with a negative feedback system. It controls metabolism, directly and instantly. Some potential clues: You have a nodule, you feel crummy, you have a racing heart. Test for thyroid levels on a day you feel well and you will likely get a normal result. Test for thyroid levels on a day you feel terrible and I'll bet labs will be out of range.

When my thyroid failed, my heart went into severe AFIB. I was hospitalized and treated for classic AFIB, a treatment that did not work and the hospital spent days trying. Digoxin did eventually get the rate down, but the missing and skipped beats remained. What solved the problem was being put on Synthroid, about 2 months after the hospitalization.

My thyroid levels dropped to nothing. AFIB was the result. The very same can happen with a sudden burst of thyroid hormone. Rubbing your thyroid can cause this.

Inflammation and SALT can cause a pounding heart. To blame it on TRT may have some merit. As TRT can worsen fluid retention. A diuretic is in order if you retain fluid.

« Last Edit: January 26, 2021, 11:48:07 pm by cujet »
57 years old
Autoimmune Hashimoto's, near zero natural T production
Cause: severe mononucleosis in my early 30's
Weight 220
Height 5' 10"
180mg NPthyroid (natural desiccated pigs thyroid)
Labs (Oct 2017) , my T=730, TSH 0.03, T3+T4 mid-range normal.
 
10% compounded creme. T=725, which feels just right.

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: TRT is THE worst decision I've ever made
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2021, 11:45:54 pm »


53chevy

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Re: TRT is THE worst decision I've ever made
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2021, 04:12:57 am »
Like I said at the beginning, taking dhea is what caused me to have to go on trt. If I would have never taken it or at least kept taking it I probably would still be a normal human at this point. I was in damn near perfect health before TRT, on no medications at all. I was full of life, sky high libido, ambition, drive, very goal driven etc etc, now there's nothing. I'm zombie like. I have close to 60 labs that I have gotten over the last 6 years not including the ones 5 doctors have had done. I know my body very well and I know what it has been doing for 6 years. Despite having a thyroid nodule my thyroid numbers have been damn near perfect the entire time and have not fluctuated hardly any from my pre trt levels. I had NONE of these problems until trt came along. When you start messing with one hormone you're dang near guaranteed to screw up other systems in the body. When trt causes your balls to almost COMPLETELY disappear,yes mine were the size of an m and m, then yes it can and will wreak havoc on other things in your body also. It shouldn't be called trt, it should be called hrt because you're almost guaranteed to have to work on other hormones because of it. I just hope and pray that one day I will figure out what trt has screwed up and figure out what my body needs and I can be normal again.

Cataceous

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Re: TRT is THE worst decision I've ever made
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2021, 03:57:49 pm »
With so many things interconnected, it's hard to divide and conquer. Nonetheless, maybe you can start chipping away at the issues. You mention dopamine and drive. That's a good place to start, because gains there will help you to keep going. Initially I added tyrosine to my supplements to help with motivation and mood. Any effects from it are pretty subtle. More recently I've included a combination of selegiline and phenethylamine (PEA). There is a synergistic relationship, and the combination has been shown to have antidepressant qualities. Selegiline is also interesting because it may be counteracting a negative effect of aging, the increase in MAO-B. MAO-B metabolizes some neurotransmitters, including dopamine. I'm currently using 2.5 mg selegiline with 100 mg PEA daily.

Further reading:
https://www.juicedmuscle.com/jmblog/content/selegiline-hcl
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selegiline
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenethylamine
http://www.balancingbrainchemistry.co.uk/peter-smith/102/Phenylethylamine-Deficient-Depression/Phenylethylamine-Deficient-Depression.html
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 59, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 154 lbs
Protocol: 2.4 mg T propionate subQ qd, 3.2 mg T enanthate qd, 20 mcg GnRH subQ 5.25x/d, 6.25 mg DHEA bid, 12.5 mg enclomiphene qod
Approximate levels (peak): TT: 700 ng/dL, E2: 30 pg/mL, DHEA-S: 300 ug/dL, SHBG: 30 nMol/L

53chevy

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Re: TRT is THE worst decision I've ever made
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2021, 02:05:28 am »
I've tried several different supplements that supposedly raise dopamine levels and none had any effect. I believe that my dopamine receptors have been reduced or deadened or somehow something else is occupying them. Like I said I'm at the end of a dead end road right now. I've been reading on histamine right now hoping to get some relief from what seems to be a histamine overload. Histamine can affect dopamine and 1000 other things. You are correct that everything is so intertwined and it's hard to single out one specific thing. I will always hold out that my issues are due to trt completely screwing up the entire system. It might very well be only one component that is out of whack but finding it is worse than looking for a needle in 1000 haystacks.

doin it

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Re: TRT is THE worst decision I've ever made
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2021, 03:29:19 am »

Cat,

Your Selegiline link,

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selegiline

does provide s LOT of interesting info. A few severe interactions The thing that bothered me most was:

"At typical clinical doses used for Parkinson's disese, selegiline is a selective and *irreversible* inhibitor of monoamine oxidase B (MAO-B), increasing levels of dopamine in the brain."

53chevy

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Re: TRT is THE worst decision I've ever made
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2021, 03:49:47 am »
OK here's something interesting. I was reading on histamine and came across an article aimed at women that said estrogen dominance can cause histamine intolerance or overload. We know that estrogen dominance doesn't necessarily mean high e but it can also mean low progesterone, they have to be balanced with each other. I grabbed my bottle of prog cream (I experimented with prog a few years back) and slathered one pump, which is 25 mg of prog, on mine thighs and I'll be damned 10 minutes later and my asthma disappeared. This was an hour or so ago and the asthma is still gone. Every once in awhile I'll get a couple of days of relief where the asthma seems to disappear but it always comes back so I'm not getting my hopes up just yet. I'll keep using the prog cream and report back in a few days. All I can say right now is this feels absolutely wonderful to be able to breathe!

Cataceous

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Re: TRT is THE worst decision I've ever made
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2021, 07:01:22 am »
Selegiline as an irreversible inhibitor of MAO-B is analogous to exemestane (Aromasin) as an aromatase inhibitor; in both cases the affected enzyme is effectively eliminated. But also in both cases, when the medication is stopped the enzyme levels are eventually replenished. In contrast, a reversible inhibitor such anastrozole just temporarily ties up the enzyme, and effectively releases it when the medication is discontinued.

It seems that younger individuals are discouraged from messing with selegiline, but MAO-B levels do rise in us older folks, to our detriment. "The normal activity of MAO-B creates reactive oxygen species, which directly damage cells.[13] MAO-B levels have been found to increase with age, suggesting a role in natural age related cognitive decline and the increased likelihood of developing neurological diseases later in life.[14] More active polymorphisms of the MAO-B gene have been linked to negative emotionality, and suspected as an underlying factor in depression.[15] Activity of MAO-B has also been shown to play a role in stress-induced cardiac damage."[R]

That's interesting about the progesterone. I have of late been encouraging anyone with low levels to try to normalize them.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 59, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 154 lbs
Protocol: 2.4 mg T propionate subQ qd, 3.2 mg T enanthate qd, 20 mcg GnRH subQ 5.25x/d, 6.25 mg DHEA bid, 12.5 mg enclomiphene qod
Approximate levels (peak): TT: 700 ng/dL, E2: 30 pg/mL, DHEA-S: 300 ug/dL, SHBG: 30 nMol/L

53chevy

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Re: TRT is THE worst decision I've ever made
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2021, 07:49:39 am »
I guess the prog cream was a cruel coincidence because the asthma was unbearable today. I had to take a couple of snorts of the mucinex nasal spray this evening because it got so bad. Just like clockwork in a few minutes the asthma was gone and it's been gone for about 8 hours now. I dread the rebound that's coming but it was worth it at the time. I'm going to look into the things Cat mentioned. I've seen Mao mentioned quite a bit so I'm going to study on that too. Some times I just want to give up and wither away but I just can't, it's not an option.

seppuku

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Re: TRT is THE worst decision I've ever made
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2021, 11:25:22 am »
Fwiw, here's my thoughts - so you were once a guy feeling great, but you took dhea, stopped it for some reason, and the stopping it made you feel bad. You go on trt (what was your test level before starting?). Trt makes you feel great, then 3 months later you crash. It's here where i get confused - you stick st it for 6 years, feeling like crap through all of it.  Why didn't you just quit it somewhere around the 1 year period?  At one point, an endo took you off and 2 months later your testosterone level was 370 ng/dl - so basically, NOT hypogonadal.  Ok, so it wasn't an ideal level, but for referrence, my last test came back at 12.1 nmol/l (340 ng/dl).  I'd like to feel a bit younger, but i have enough energy to work 9hr shifts as a maintenance man, libido's good, work out still.  You got your 370ng/dl only 2 months after coming off - that's a fantastic result at that time frame. I bet if you'd have just waited a few months you might have been double that, maybe more.  In your shoes, with the unsatisfactory results you've had from years of trt, i'd just come off and see what i could do naturally.  Full recovery could take over a year, but what have you got to lose, you already feel crap.

53chevy

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Re: TRT is THE worst decision I've ever made
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2021, 10:41:22 pm »
Ah yes, you're the "if you're within the range then there's nothing wrong with you" type. Seems as tho you're skeptical of my story and you come across as a smug know it all so I'll keep this short. My T was 327 when I was put on T. That level was checked around 2 pm meaning it was probably high 300s in the mornings when most T is checked. But wait, that's within the range so I should have felt great, right? I had been off dhea for 2 or 3 months when that T level was checked meaning the damage was done already. Let me tell you something I haven't told a whole lot of people. When low T first hit me I had a depression I didn't know could exist. I literally had my pistol in my hand one night and damn near blew my brains out because I was so depressed, and had no damn clue why I was depressed. I had never had suicidal thoughts ever before. Then lo and behold trt fixed that depression just like magic. Does that sound like T in the 300s is good for me? Just because all you need is a small amount doesn't mean that works for everybody else. Maybe you have heard of people regaining their natural T levels after being on trt for awhile but I haven't. Why do you think so many bodybuilders go on trt after awhile? They can't recover anymore even with with pct meaning the damage is done. But basically what you're saying is anybody on this forum that had their T drop then went on trt and they feel like crap should just get off T, get their natural levels back and the world will be wonderful again. If I would have only known it was that easy! Why do you think I had to go on trt to begin with? Because my balls quit working! So my balls don't work yet I should quit trt to get my natural levels back that dropped because my balls quit working? Alrighty then. And if you'll reread my first post you'll see that I've been off trt for 14 months. At the 8 month mark I went back on trt for a bit but checked my T levels before I went back on and guess where they were? In the 300s. Do you really think it's as easy as getting off T and getting my natural levels back and everything will be wonderful again??? Wow.

cujet

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Re: TRT is THE worst decision I've ever made
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2021, 01:07:21 pm »
My T was 327 when I was put on T. That level was checked around 2 pm meaning it was probably high 300s in the mornings when most T is checked. But wait, that's within the range so I should have felt great, right? 

T in the low 300's is too low. I'm not at all surprised by your story, please know "I get it".

I never get depressed, but I have near "nil" T due to illness. I know my low T symptoms and one of them is a stunning lack of confidence. So much so, I'm a pilot that is afraid to fly when T levels are low. I start worrying about a failing wing spar or some other stupid catastrophic mechanical failure. Like an old lady....

53, I'd simply suggest that properly administered TRT is not the crux of the issues. A contributing factor when T levels are driven too high, for sure. I've been doing this a long time, and while a data point of one, I do know my T levels must be over 450 and below 800. I also know that I must cycle. The off cycle is long enough to get LH up to the point where my testicles hurt, then I'm back on. It's not a wild ride, In fact, I simply get horny when T levels are dropping.

I have other health issues and am currently taking prednisone. I don't seem to be able to function without it. (on T or not). And, yes, the prednisone helps the inflammatory nature of my autoimmune disease. It also helps my intestinal issues and massive swelling, it also replaces my very low cortisol, and helps me breathe.



All of us are different, and balancing hormones is not a simple or easy thing. But I'm 100% convinced that it's possible when levels are kept balanced and within reason.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2021, 01:11:30 pm by cujet »
57 years old
Autoimmune Hashimoto's, near zero natural T production
Cause: severe mononucleosis in my early 30's
Weight 220
Height 5' 10"
180mg NPthyroid (natural desiccated pigs thyroid)
Labs (Oct 2017) , my T=730, TSH 0.03, T3+T4 mid-range normal.
 
10% compounded creme. T=725, which feels just right.

seppuku

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Re: TRT is THE worst decision I've ever made
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2021, 08:23:20 pm »
Ah yes, you're the "if you're within the range then there's nothing wrong with you" type. Seems as tho you're skeptical of my story and you come across as a smug know it all so I'll keep this short. My T was 327 when I was put on T. That level was checked around 2 pm meaning it was probably high 300s in the mornings when most T is checked. But wait, that's within the range so I should have felt great, right? I had been off dhea for 2 or 3 months when that T level was checked meaning the damage was done already. Let me tell you something I haven't told a whole lot of people. When low T first hit me I had a depression I didn't know could exist. I literally had my pistol in my hand one night and damn near blew my brains out because I was so depressed, and had no damn clue why I was depressed. I had never had suicidal thoughts ever before. Then lo and behold trt fixed that depression just like magic. Does that sound like T in the 300s is good for me? Just because all you need is a small amount doesn't mean that works for everybody else. Maybe you have heard of people regaining their natural T levels after being on trt for awhile but I haven't. Why do you think so many bodybuilders go on trt after awhile? They can't recover anymore even with with pct meaning the damage is done. But basically what you're saying is anybody on this forum that had their T drop then went on trt and they feel like crap should just get off T, get their natural levels back and the world will be wonderful again. If I would have only known it was that easy! Why do you think I had to go on trt to begin with? Because my balls quit working! So my balls don't work yet I should quit trt to get my natural levels back that dropped because my balls quit working? Alrighty then. And if you'll reread my first post you'll see that I've been off trt for 14 months. At the 8 month mark I went back on trt for a bit but checked my T levels before I went back on and guess where they were? In the 300s. Do you really think it's as easy as getting off T and getting my natural levels back and everything will be wonderful again??? Wow.


Well, that put me straight didn't it, lol!!  Ok, i take it all back.  You're right - you should have gone ahead and used that gun.  But you didn't so alternatively, go f**k yourself.

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Re: TRT is THE worst decision I've ever made
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2021, 08:23:20 pm »