TRT is THE worst decision I've ever made

[53chevy]

Cujet, I've had my T levels anywhere from my new normal of 300s to as high as 1600 and everywhere in between and didn't feel a bit different at any level. The only time I feel an actual difference is when my E is high, above 30. The anger and depression from E above 30 is not a pretty sight at all. Other than that nothing I've tried changes the way I feel emotionally as far as drive, energy, libido etc, and trust me I've tried a lot. It is funny that you mention cycling and when your T is dropping you get horny. I don't get horny but I have noticed that when I get off T I do feel a little more energy for a few weeks. I've even tried test prop because it's a faster acting T just to see if it would mimmick the daily up and down of natural T production.

I've checked my cortisol many times over the last 6 years and every time it has been fine. I've gotten labs on just about anything I could think of and like I said the only thing consistently out of whack or had a big change are my kidney affiliated labs. I spent probably 2 years focused on nothing but kidneys trying to get my co2 level back up with no luck. Now that I've discovered that dopamine plays a big role in sodium excretion I'm focusing on that. I've read many threads thru the years that claim trt can desensitize dopamine receptors. I have no clue if that's actually true but it seems like if you got off trt for awhile they would sensitize again, doesn't seem to be my case tho.

On a seperate note, got your own plane? What you got? My father got his pilots license several years back and started building an RV6A. We got the wings done and he was starting on the fuselage when depression hit him hard and he had to go on paxil. He ended up selling it due to not being able to get a medical to fly because of the paxil. He then got a sport pilot license and bought a Titan Tornado. He passed away last january and the plane will be sold as soon as I pull it out and clean it up and get it running.

[53chevy]

Well, that put me straight didn't it, lol!!  Ok, i take it all back.  You're right - you should have gone ahead and used that gun.  But you didn't so alternatively, go f**k yourself.

And that's exactly the response I would expect from a know it all prick.

[53chevy]

Cataceous, I've started reading on MAO inhibitors and also things like wellbutrin. What I've read so far seems like the MAO inhibitors are kinda dangerous. I'm curious as to why you would want to use those instead of something like wellbutrin.

[Cataceous]

Cataceous, I've started reading on MAO inhibitors and also things like wellbutrin. What I've read so far seems like the MAO inhibitors are kinda dangerous. I'm curious as to why you would want to use those instead of something like wellbutrin.

As per the above references, one wants to reduce the activity of MAO-B and its negative effects. In the case of selegiline, as long as the dose is low it maintains specificity for MAO-B and has less propensity to cause problems. Here's another detailed article: https://www.futurescience.com/deprenyl.html

According to Dr. Knoll, deprenyl has "proved to be a safe drug in man.  Neither hypertensive reactions nor the need for special dietary care were ever encountered during long-term (2-8 years) daily administration of the drug."  Knoll said that the lethal dose of the drug is more than 1000 times its effective daily dose.  Knoll called this safety margin "remarkable."

[53chevy]

I'll read that. Are you having any success with it?

[Cataceous]

I'd say so. The effects aren't so dramatic that I can readily dismiss a placebo effect, but I think I've experienced improved mood and motivation. I'm equally or more interested in the anti-aging potential of the drug. Genetic testing suggests a somewhat increased disposition to late-onset Alzheimer's. I'd like to do what I can to counteract that propensity.

[53chevy]

So a month ago I decided to go back on T at my usual dose of 15 mg per day and give it one more try to see if it would help with the asthma. 2-3 weeks in I saw a very small improvement with the asthma along with gaining about 8 lbs, most likely due to water retention. That's how badly my body retains water due to whatever the hell T has done to me. A week ago I decided to up my dose to 20 mg per day and it appears that the asthma is now gone. I don't understand my body anymore. I've quit T more than once and never developed asthma until this last time I quit. And why now do I need a bigger dose to get rid of the asthma? On the downside, my severe joint and body pain is back with a vengeance. It is debilitating to the point that if I do ANYTHING physical I will have to just quit and go lay down for awhile just to get some relief from the pain. This is the main reason I quit T the last time. So I can either be off T and have the worst asthma known to man 24/7 but be able to do things even tho I'm out of breath all of the time or I can be on T with no asthma and have pain so bad that I'm merely existing at times. I decided to go on wellbutrin instead of an MAOI so I've got some coming to see if it helps any at all with the multitude of things that are wrong with me. I'll report back after being on wellbutrin for awhile.

[Cataceous]

Would you describe the "severe joint and body pain" as possibly a product of hypersensitivity? That is, do you feel as though normal aches and pains are being amplified to an absurd level, even "creating" pain that would otherwise be imperceptible?

[53chevy]

Do you mean is it amplifying existing pain? Yes it does seem to do that some. I've noticed my low back pain is worse and I hurt my ankle a few weeks ago (fell off a skid steer whilst working on it) and it seems to be hurting worse with no unusual activity to cause more pain. The pain I'm talking about is my entire body will hurt and ache from head to toe to the point that I have to go lay down for a little while. I dealt with that for a few years before I quit T this last time and within days of qutting it seemed to get better.

[Cataceous]

I asked because I have at times felt like I had something similar going on—the perception of pain being much greater than what's justified, to the point of debilitation. It hasn't been an issue in the last year or so, which coincides with my efforts to normalize levels of hormones in addition to testosterone, such as progesterone. If there's causality involved then I might point to statements like this one: "Hormones play a complex role in how the brain interprets sensations of pain from its neurotransmitters."1

[cujet]

53, I've read that some drugs cause hypersensitivity to pain. Opioid-induced hyperalgesia is one term for what happens to those on long term opiods. I believe it! I have a friend on O for pain, and when she breaks a nail short she emits a blood-curdling scream, followed by outright writhing in pain for an hour or so. It hurts me to see that, because it's as real as anything.

Causes. Hyperalgesia is induced by platelet-activating factor (PAF) which comes about in an inflammatory or an allergic response. This seems to occur via immune cells interacting with the peripheral nervous system and releasing pain-producing chemicals (cytokines and chemokines). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperalgesia

Reading up on it, Platypus Venom is know for this. Too weird.

I have my own set of issues, but strangely enough, pain is not one of them. I generally don't hurt at all,,,, yet. However, I've injured myself enough times to know just how much I hate pain.

[53chevy]

Funny you mention allergic repsonse because I believe high histamine was causing the asthma and my nose being stopped up all the time so I guess it's possible it's causing the whole body pain. I can tell you this, the first three months I was on T and it was actually working I had no pain whatsoever. It was glorious. I've had low back issues since I was 18 and I felt so great during those 3 months that I built an in ground swimming pool myself and never got tired nor had my back hurt.

I might have spoke too soon about the asthma because it's back pretty bad today after being gone for the last week or so. I'm trying to think if I forgot a T dose in the last few days but I don't think I did.

Cat, do neurotransmitters play a role in pain perception? I've read that dopamine can act like a pain reliever of sorts. They think it might play a role in fibromyalgia.

[Cataceous]

Cat, do neurotransmitters play a role in pain perception? ...

Absolutely. Take a look at this article: https://sanescohealth.com/blog/pain-and-neurotransmitter-imbalance/

"Serotonin is intricately involved in modulating pain signaling processes. [18] Serotonin may have an inhibitory effect on pain perception;"
"GABA may enhance pain facilitation and decrease the perception of pain."
"Dopamine pathways influence and enhance pain processing and modulation, working to help relieve pain."

[53chevy]

Well here's something crazy to ponder. I thought that a higher T dose was helping with the asthma and I thought wrong as I mentioned earlier. The asthma has been absolutely terrible for the last 3 days after it almost completely went away for a week or so. Also I've mentioned earlier that diphenhydramine will make the asthma completely disappear but it also knocks me out so I can only take it at night.

I don't even remember how I got off on this subject but I read that caffeine can raise dopamine levels. I think I have low dopamine and it's creating havoc in my body. I've also read that low dopamine can cause asthma, among a multitude of other things that can cause it.

I quit drinking caffeinated drinks about 17 years ago when I found out that it was causing my heart to skip beats. I decided to get a coke and drink it tonight just to see what happened. I figured my heart would start skipping beats again but it didn't. About an hour, maybe less, after drinking it guess what happened? My asthma almost completely disappeared. And 4 hours later it's still gone.

So I started reading on asthma and caffeine and lo and behold doctors are studying it because it seems to help asthma. I've just started reading on this so I'm not completely sure on why it helps but it seems caffeine raises epinephrine and epinephrine is what's in primatene mist. Primatene does very little to help me but maybe that's because it's not enough. I don't know.

This might just be another fluke but tomorrow when the asthma starts I'm going to drink another coke and see what happens. If the asthma disappears then I'll be buying coke in bulk until I figure all of this out. I know I know soft drinks are bad blah blah but at this point I'd lick a baboons ass if it would give me relief from this damn asthma.

[Cataceous]

Of course if caffeine really proves to be an enduring treatment then you can always get it in tablet form and compound it into smaller doses. My experience with caffeine is that chronic administration provides different and poorer results than occasional isolated doses. But obviously millions of people see continuing benefits with daily use.