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Author Topic: Beware of DHT  (Read 285 times)

PakMan

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Beware of DHT
« on: February 28, 2021, 12:29:09 pm »
I Started low dose TRT in 2016 for mainly libido/erection issues but also had mood and concentration problems. Wasn't much successful and cortisol went too low so quit after 8 or 9 months. Then tried HCG which worked for about 2 months but then E got too high and it stopped working at all. From then onwards, I was just chasing symptoms by trying different stuff. Low dose TE, TP, AI's, Proviron and different herbs. I knew that DHT was crucial for libido but wasn't able to raise it in a balanced way with consistent results. Every time it would work for some days and go too high with low estrogen symptoms (teary eyes, low mood, libido crash etc.) To get out of that (androgenic) state I had to take progesterone and I could then take T without above symptoms, but, in this (estrogenic) state, I still had very little desire plus erection problems. Then again, I would try an AI or zinc or Proviron with T or HCG for the next round.
   My heart was fine with all of this until the fall of 2019. I had injected low dose TE and also taken Proviron. Then I also ingested some astragalus root powder. I later found on the net that this lowers progesterone and estrogen. Any way at around midnight I woke up with my heart really struggling. It felt like it was pumping oil or something. I rushed up to my room and took a 100 mg progesterone pill and in minutes heart spasms went away and I was able to sleep. Next morning I went to the hospital for ECG and it was fine although I felt tired the whole day. Even though I became very careful I nevertheless had more cardiovascular events a few months later (heart palps, shortness of breath, nausea etc.) and to my horror, the progesterone did not help but made it worse (by supposedly blocking E I think). I went to the hospital the ECG was again fine and they gave me a date for stress test. I was feeling fine on that day and the stress test was also ok. Later I also had an Echocardiogram (ultrasound of heart) and that was fine too except the doctor said my heart walls were slightly thicker but he didn't seem concerned at all. I never told any doctor of steroids or anything I had taken.
   I have stopped all steroids/AI etc. It has become clear that anything that raises DHT causes an immediate cardiovascular event. Also anything that lowers E is bad, even heart healthy stuff like Pomegranate juice. If I drink it for 3 or 4 days I get pain in my chest. AI's are totally out of question. Even Boron has started to cause heart pain. Not sure why that is. May be because it lowers SHBG and frees up T/DHT?
 Any thing that blocks DHT (without blocking E also) relieves my heart of the pain like Finasteride, Astaxanthin, Rosemary oil, Lavender oil etc. Estrogenic and Anti androgenic stuff is what my heart is screaming for and it is not because my DHT is high. I just cannot seem to tolerate even normal range. I am really stuck with apparently no way without sacrificing one (sex) for the other (heart) . 
   This is just a warning to anyone who is on AI's or is trying to raise his DHT. If you can, please get off it before your heart stops tolerating androgens. Google DHT and heart and you will find links. Testosterones beneficial effects on heart are caused by its conversion to Estrogen while its deleterious effects are caused by its conversion to DHT. Of course this will not be true for everyone but there is a good chance you will screw your heart like me. Look it up.
Age: 46, HT: 5' 7'', WT: 75 kg

Jan 16 to Oct 16 - Test Enanthate (35mg 2x/week)
Oct 16 to Feb 17 - HCG (500iu 2x/Week)
Feb 17 - Test Propionate (25mg only 2 injections 4 days apart)
Aug 2017 onwards (Astaxanthin + other oils, supplements)
Dec 2017 Low dose TRT (25 mg twice a week)
Nothing from Jan 1, 2019

21/08/2017 8:10 PM
Total T = 271 ng/dl  (Range 160 - 726)
LH = 5.15 mIU/ml  (Range 0.8 - 7.6)

Cataceous

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Re: Beware of DHT
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2021, 12:12:58 pm »
Have you measured DHT, E2, and PROG to try to quantify what levels cause problems?
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 59, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 154 lbs
Protocol: 2.4 mg T propionate subQ qd, 3.2 mg T enanthate qd, 20 mcg GnRH subQ 5.25x/d, 6.25 mg DHEA bid, 12.5 mg enclomiphene qod
Approximate levels (peak): TT: 700 ng/dL, E2: 30 pg/mL, DHEA-S: 300 ug/dL, SHBG: 30 nMol/L

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Re: Beware of DHT
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2021, 12:12:58 pm »


PakMan

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Re: Beware of DHT
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2021, 05:28:31 pm »
Have you measured DHT, E2, and PROG to try to quantify what levels cause problems?

No generally they are all low. A few weeks back I checked T and it was just above 300 ng/dl. Problem happens when DHT rises or estrogen goes down.
Age: 46, HT: 5' 7'', WT: 75 kg

Jan 16 to Oct 16 - Test Enanthate (35mg 2x/week)
Oct 16 to Feb 17 - HCG (500iu 2x/Week)
Feb 17 - Test Propionate (25mg only 2 injections 4 days apart)
Aug 2017 onwards (Astaxanthin + other oils, supplements)
Dec 2017 Low dose TRT (25 mg twice a week)
Nothing from Jan 1, 2019

21/08/2017 8:10 PM
Total T = 271 ng/dl  (Range 160 - 726)
LH = 5.15 mIU/ml  (Range 0.8 - 7.6)

doin it

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Re: Beware of DHT
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2021, 06:39:36 am »

You should know that pomegranate seeds have higher E1 and E2 levels than any other plant.  Most of tbe commercial juice includes the seeds.

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Re: Beware of DHT
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2021, 06:39:36 am »


doin it

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Re: Beware of DHT
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2021, 06:51:02 am »

And the amounts are not trivial, they are significant.  You will see with a web search.

PakMan

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Re: Beware of DHT
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2021, 01:17:45 am »

You should know that pomegranate seeds have higher E1 and E2 levels than any other plant.  Most of tbe commercial juice includes the seeds.

Pomegranate is well known to have anti estrogenic activity. It contains a compound Ellagic acid which is an aromatase inhibitor. Also it is known to slightly boost testosterone which it would never have done if it had 'higher E1 and E2 levels than any other plan'
Age: 46, HT: 5' 7'', WT: 75 kg

Jan 16 to Oct 16 - Test Enanthate (35mg 2x/week)
Oct 16 to Feb 17 - HCG (500iu 2x/Week)
Feb 17 - Test Propionate (25mg only 2 injections 4 days apart)
Aug 2017 onwards (Astaxanthin + other oils, supplements)
Dec 2017 Low dose TRT (25 mg twice a week)
Nothing from Jan 1, 2019

21/08/2017 8:10 PM
Total T = 271 ng/dl  (Range 160 - 726)
LH = 5.15 mIU/ml  (Range 0.8 - 7.6)

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: Beware of DHT
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2021, 01:17:45 am »