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Author Topic: Have You Changed Your Doctor's Mind?  (Read 6804 times)

PeakT

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Have You Changed Your Doctor's Mind?
« on: June 25, 2013, 03:38:14 am »
Raym just related how he sent a bunch of research information to his doctor in the hopes of influencing him or her.  I have noticed this trend on the Forum and, to my surprise, a number of men have said that their doctors actually listened to them.

I am surprised, because I have never had a doctor budge even the slightest in anything I have brought up to them, even on subject where I clearly knew more than them.  And that's okay by the way:  as I've stated, they've saved my life a few times and kept from a life of misery and suffering, so they don't have to be perfect.  Imo their battering average is about as good as any other profession.

Anyway, for those of you who have had success persuading your doctors, I'd love to hear how you did it and what it was that you think influenced them? 
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

adam1973

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Re: Have You Changed Your Doctor's Mind?
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2013, 06:04:03 pm »
Raym just related how he sent a bunch of research information to his doctor in the hopes of influencing him or her.  I have noticed this trend on the Forum and, to my surprise, a number of men have said that their doctors actually listened to them.

I am surprised, because I have never had a doctor budge even the slightest in anything I have brought up to them, even on subject where I clearly knew more than them.  And that's okay by the way:  as I've stated, they've saved my life a few times and kept from a life of misery and suffering, so they don't have to be perfect.  Imo their battering average is about as good as any other profession.

Anyway, for those of you who have had success persuading your doctors, I'd love to hear how you did it and what it was that you think influenced them?

I persuaded my doctor using logic (I guess). He knows Ive done tons of research on using different drugs to raise test levels. So when I told him about using clomid (I bought the script from an overseas pharmacy) he was skeptical at first (and refused to write the script) but after he had me do blood work and saw that my Total & Free Testosterone were raised significantly he wrote me out a script for it. Clomid eventually stopped working for me. That was the first time I persuaded my doctor.

The second time was when he agreed to putting me on Test-C. He originally wanted me to come in every 3 weeks for a 300-400mg shot. I said no I would rather do weekly shots because I want to avoid the roller coaster ride of hormone levels. I told him about the half life of Test-C and that Id like to have smaller weekly injections. he said OK sounds good. Then he said He wanted me to be on 50mg per week. I countered that if his normal protocol was 300-400mg every 3 week to just split the dose into 100mg/week. He thought about it for a few minutes and came back and agreed.

Now when I see him next I am going to try to persuade him to raise the dose to about 125-150mg per week. I just have to figure out how I am going to approach him on it.

Any ideas or suggestions?

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Re: Have You Changed Your Doctor's Mind?
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2013, 06:04:03 pm »


PeakT

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Re: Have You Changed Your Doctor's Mind?
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2013, 10:28:46 pm »

Now when I see him next I am going to try to persuade him to raise the dose to about 125-150mg per week. I just have to figure out how I am going to approach him on it.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Can you put this part on a separate thread?  I have a few comments...

THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Ken

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Re: Have You Changed Your Doctor's Mind?
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2013, 06:21:39 pm »
Raym just related how he sent a bunch of research information to his doctor in the hopes of influencing him or her.  I have noticed this trend on the Forum and, to my surprise, a number of men have said that their doctors actually listened to them.

I am surprised, because I have never had a doctor budge even the slightest in anything I have brought up to them, even on subject where I clearly knew more than them.  And that's okay by the way:  as I've stated, they've saved my life a few times and kept from a life of misery and suffering, so they don't have to be perfect.  Imo their battering average is about as good as any other profession.

Anyway, for those of you who have had success persuading your doctors, I'd love to hear how you did it and what it was that you think influenced them?

As you eluded to Peak, it really depends on the doctor.  The first doc I went to was semi interested in my research that I brought and made copies of my stuff but did nothing.  The second doc I went to was an Endo and was borderline a dick about my research and very arrogant and did nothing.  The third doctor seemed genuinely impressed with my research and started me on TRT.  He has been so pleased with my results that he has hinted to me that he might try my regimen for himself! 

With that said, I fear my appointment on Friday a bit when he sees my latest 3408 total T number.  Uh oh!  Going to have to convince him that my shift on injection days from Friday to Monday that caused a 400mg dose in 72 hours caused the spike.  I really hope he doesn't decide to pull me off TRT until my numbers fall back, but instead let's me come back to normal levels by sticking to the proper dosages.

I'll update this matter on Friday after I see him.  Hopefully his eyes don't pop out of his head when he sees my numbers.
Age: 52
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Re: Have You Changed Your Doctor's Mind?
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2013, 06:21:39 pm »


PeakT

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Re: Have You Changed Your Doctor's Mind?
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2013, 06:46:50 pm »
Raym just related how he sent a bunch of research information to his doctor in the hopes of influencing him or her.  I have noticed this trend on the Forum and, to my surprise, a number of men have said that their doctors actually listened to them.

I am surprised, because I have never had a doctor budge even the slightest in anything I have brought up to them, even on subject where I clearly knew more than them.  And that's okay by the way:  as I've stated, they've saved my life a few times and kept from a life of misery and suffering, so they don't have to be perfect.  Imo their battering average is about as good as any other profession.

Anyway, for those of you who have had success persuading your doctors, I'd love to hear how you did it and what it was that you think influenced them?

As you eluded to Peak, it really depends on the doctor.  The first doc I went to was semi interested in my research that I brought and made copies of my stuff but did nothing.  The second doc I went to was an Endo and was borderline a dick about my research and very arrogant and did nothing.  The third doctor seemed genuinely impressed with my research and started me on TRT.  He has been so pleased with my results that he has hinted to me that he might try my regimen for himself! 

With that said, I fear my appointment on Friday a bit when he sees my latest 3408 total T number.  Uh oh!  Going to have to convince him that my shift on injection days from Friday to Monday that caused a 400mg dose in 72 hours caused the spike.  I really hope he doesn't decide to pull me off TRT until my numbers fall back, but instead let's me come back to normal levels by sticking to the proper dosages.

I'll update this matter on Friday after I see him.  Hopefully his eyes don't pop out of his head when he sees my numbers.

Another downright amazing story.  Btw, it wouldn't surprised me if he initially wanted to back off your dose, but I can't imagine him trying to pull you totally off of it.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Sam

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Re: Have You Changed Your Doctor's Mind?
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2013, 05:46:16 pm »
Just adding my situation to this with regard to Kaiser.   While the Endos completely wrote me off, once they did my urologist seemed to step up with a bit more compassion for my situation.  He is now willing to start me on TRT if 3 months post varicocele surgery my T levels a still below 300.   This is a huge departure from the Kaiser way of doing things since he basically said maybe you are one of those guys that does better in the 400-500 range without even throwing the free testosterone argument against me.

One thing that seemed to have an impact on him was my reference to Dr. Morgentalers book Testosterone for Life.   He was well aware of Dr. Morgentalers work and the conversation around it was positive as opposed to the smack downs i continuously got from the Endos.   If I could do it again I would avoid the endos at all cost.

Ken

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Re: Have You Changed Your Doctor's Mind?
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2013, 05:52:56 pm »
Just adding my situation to this with regard to Kaiser.   While the Endos completely wrote me off, once they did my urologist seemed to step up with a bit more compassion for my situation.  He is now willing to start me on TRT if 3 months post varicocele surgery my T levels a still below 300.   This is a huge departure from the Kaiser way of doing things since he basically said maybe you are one of those guys that does better in the 400-500 range without even throwing the free testosterone argument against me.

One thing that seemed to have an impact on him was my reference to Dr. Morgentalers book Testosterone for Life.   He was well aware of Dr. Morgentalers work and the conversation around it was positive as opposed to the smack downs i continuously got from the Endos.   If I could do it again I would avoid the endos at all cost.

Yeah Sam, I agree.  I don't think I have heard a positive experience from anyone using an Endo.  I think they all went to the same school of "Not gonna help U"!
Age: 52
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BF% 12.5

Sam

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Re: Have You Changed Your Doctor's Mind?
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2013, 06:03:14 pm »
You know,   This thread makes me think about a concept I see recurring in my own career interactions with medical experts.   The idea is that of KOL's. or Key Opinion Leaders.   One of the things that i see people in the medical community be more influenced by time and time again is what these KOL's say.  Its almost as if the docs are programmed in medical school to listen to those who are the perceived experts so when you you reference one of them their ears perk up more than usual.


It would be interesting to have a list of KOLs for HRT, specifically. TRT by medical speciality that would be somewhat of a cheat sheet for you to have when approaching a conventional doc.

I.e. for Urologist's Morgentaler probably falls into this category.

PeakT

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Re: Have You Changed Your Doctor's Mind?
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2013, 06:11:50 pm »
You know,   This thread makes me think about a concept I see recurring in my own career interactions with medical experts.   The idea is that of KOL's. or Key Opinion Leaders.   One of the things that i see people in the medical community be more influenced by time and time again is what these KOL's say.  Its almost as if the docs are programmed in medical school to listen to those who are the perceived experts so when you you reference one of them their ears perk up more than usual.


It would be interesting to have a list of KOLs for HRT, specifically. TRT by medical speciality that would be somewhat of a cheat sheet for you to have when approaching a conventional doc.

I.e. for Urologist's Morgentaler probably falls into this category.
Fantastic concept.  Of course, the problem is that almost all endocrinologists and urologists are so cautious.  That's just the culture now.   The only docs that seem to be on the side of HRT are those that have gone through low testosterone.  Sloan Teeple is an example on the urological side.

Unfortunately, you cannot cite Crisler or Shippen as they are not specialists at all.  They just kind of got into it through general interest I guess you'd say...
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

raym

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Re: Have You Changed Your Doctor's Mind?
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2013, 07:51:07 pm »
Probably 15 or so years ago I changed jobs and the new place had a managed PCP type healthcare plan.  I got randomly assigned a doctor who was to be my PCP.  All care had to be coordinated through her.  I should have known that something was slightly off as during my physical she asked me if I had any special abilities or super powers  :o.  I said no, just the usual ones.

On the upside, I was basically directing my own care.  If I needed to see a specialist or anything, I would make a quick appointment with her, chat about reiki or remote sensing or whatever her current trendy alternative care du jour was, then ask for a referral or a prescription or whatever. 

She was generally pretty good, although when I wanted to try accupuncture for my back pain, she was like "oh goody, I've always wanted to try that.  Can I try first??".  Oh, and once when we were chatting after an appointment, she told me how that the first year or so of surgery internship was really hard for her because during med school all the organs in the dummies were color coded, but real bodies are not.  Wow.

Anyways, that is the only time I've really had success changing a doctor's mind.

Ray

PeakT

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Re: Have You Changed Your Doctor's Mind?
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2013, 08:42:31 pm »
Probably 15 or so years ago I changed jobs and the new place had a managed PCP type healthcare plan.  I got randomly assigned a doctor who was to be my PCP.  All care had to be coordinated through her.  I should have known that something was slightly off as during my physical she asked me if I had any special abilities or super powers  :o.  I said no, just the usual ones.

On the upside, I was basically directing my own care.  If I needed to see a specialist or anything, I would make a quick appointment with her, chat about reiki or remote sensing or whatever her current trendy alternative care du jour was, then ask for a referral or a prescription or whatever. 

She was generally pretty good, although when I wanted to try accupuncture for my back pain, she was like "oh goody, I've always wanted to try that.  Can I try first??".  Oh, and once when we were chatting after an appointment, she told me how that the first year or so of surgery internship was really hard for her because during med school all the organs in the dummies were color coded, but real bodies are not.  Wow.


Wow.  Well, I've never heard a story quite like that one.  Sounds like you got the Carlos Santana of the medical world, eh?

I'm curious what superpowers SHE had.  Did you ever see her levitate or spin her around in a couple of 360's by any chance?  :)
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

raym

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Re: Have You Changed Your Doctor's Mind?
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2013, 03:41:33 am »
Probably 15 or so years ago I changed jobs and the new place had a managed PCP type healthcare plan.  I got randomly assigned a doctor who was to be my PCP.  All care had to be coordinated through her.  I should have known that something was slightly off as during my physical she asked me if I had any special abilities or super powers  :o.  I said no, just the usual ones.

On the upside, I was basically directing my own care.  If I needed to see a specialist or anything, I would make a quick appointment with her, chat about reiki or remote sensing or whatever her current trendy alternative care du jour was, then ask for a referral or a prescription or whatever. 

She was generally pretty good, although when I wanted to try accupuncture for my back pain, she was like "oh goody, I've always wanted to try that.  Can I try first??".  Oh, and once when we were chatting after an appointment, she told me how that the first year or so of surgery internship was really hard for her because during med school all the organs in the dummies were color coded, but real bodies are not.  Wow.


Wow.  Well, I've never heard a story quite like that one.  Sounds like you got the Carlos Santana of the medical world, eh?

I'm curious what superpowers SHE had.  Did you ever see her levitate or spin her around in a couple of 360's by any chance?  :)

She was...unique.  Yeah, unique.  She was big into reiki and remote healing at the time.   I was working at a virtual reality startup, and she wanted to plow her entire personal savings into a VR app that would help her with remote healing.  Anyways, talking about this brings ack a strong sense of patchouli.  Shudder.

Ray

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Re: Have You Changed Your Doctor's Mind?
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2013, 03:41:33 am »