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Author Topic: Best form of boron?  (Read 53491 times)

ghce

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Re: Best form of boron?
« Reply #30 on: October 06, 2016, 10:40:30 am »
today I ordered the Calcium Borogluconate so will see how that goes
« Last Edit: October 06, 2016, 10:42:15 am by ghce »
Age:60, Height 6' 3" weight 100KG
2014 Androderm Patches
2014-2016 Oral Andriol 160mg Daily
June 2016 Clomid/Serophene 12.5mg EOD
September 2016 no TRT all natural and supplements for the time being
February 2017 Testosterone cream 100mg daily

Sept 2016
Testosterone   8.2 nmol/l   9-38
Free Testosterone   239 pmol/l   L   250-800
SHBG:  14    nmol/L   9-60
Free Androgen index   586   >400
Oestradiol    112   pmol/L    <190
LH    2.6 IU/L Adult male   2 - 9 IU/L
FSH  1.4 IU/L Adult male L2 - 12 IU/L

22 November
T 6.8  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) L

March 2017
Testosterone:   45.0  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) H ( 1,323 ng/dl )
Free Testosterone:   1512  pmol/L ( 250-800 ) H
SHBG:   17  nmol/L ( 9-60 )
Plasma IGF-1:   227 ug/L ( 55-198 ) H
Plasma cortisol:   434 nmol/L ( 0600-1000 hrs 170-500 nmol/L )
HbA1c:   36 mmol/mol ( 20-40 )
LH:   <0.1 IU/L
FSH:   0.1 IU/L
DHT Plasma Dihydrotestosterone:   7455   pmol/L ( 223 ng/dl ) 
Reference Range Adult males  1000-6000 pmol/L

Tropicaldaze

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Re: Best form of boron?
« Reply #31 on: October 06, 2016, 04:55:16 pm »
I meant to add that raisins, preferably organic, contain a significant amount of boron, as do organic apples.  I've read that the French naturally get up to 36 mg daily from their food.  Dr. Flechas stated in his video that a liter of water in Turkey contains 60 mg, I believe, of naturally occurring boron, which I interpret to mean that this is the daily conusmption and in Israel people consume via diet and water, 10-30 mg, daily.  Like selenium and iodine, industrial agriculture has depleted or reduced trace minerals that are important for physical, endocrine and psychological/neurological functioning.
65 y.o., 5'5", 138lbs.
Complex medical history: treatment resistant ultra rapid cycling bipolar illness, history of thyroid and adrenal problems. ED/libido problems since 2010.  Restoring my physical health has been, and remains, a daunting challenge.

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Re: Best form of boron?
« Reply #31 on: October 06, 2016, 04:55:16 pm »


bobor

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Re: Best form of boron?
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2016, 02:44:40 am »
I meant to add that raisins, preferably organic, contain a significant amount of boron, as do organic apples.  I've read that the French naturally get up to 36 mg daily from their food.  Dr. Flechas stated in his video that a liter of water in Turkey contains 60 mg, I believe, of naturally occurring boron, which I interpret to mean that this is the daily conusmption and in Israel people consume via diet and water, 10-30 mg, daily.  Like selenium and iodine, industrial agriculture has depleted or reduced trace minerals that are important for physical, endocrine and psychological/neurological functioning.

Thanks for the info on food sources. Isn't 100 grams of raisins quite bit of raisins though? This article actually says taking 1-2 cups of raisins per day just to get 3mg!?  :o https://www.anabolicmen.com/foods-high-in-boron/

I've been taking 3mg of boron per day from Move Free Ultra in the form of boron glycinate for about two weeks now.

Not sure if it's placebo or coincidence but there's been a noticeable improvement in my mental clarity and alertness. No feelings of irritability but there's increased motivation/assertiveness.

Perhaps irritability comes with higher doses?

I'm using Move free ultra only because of the form of boron in it (not due to arthritis). Per my earlier post, I'm still a little weary of any toxicity from borogluconate since it seems this form is often used in veterinary/livestock purposes...although the Move Free stuff is a lot more expensive than Boron from Now brands

ghce

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Re: Best form of boron?
« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2016, 04:48:12 am »
I have opted for the Now  brand ( Calcium Borogluconate ) simply because so many reviews mentioned it as being effective as opposed to the 3 way pill supplements which may well be as effective, that and the pack size is 250 tabs and I think I will opt for a dosage rate of 9 mg per day, just a purchasing practicality.

Hopefully the motivation and assertiveness will improve too but not the aggression. I had occasion whilst still on Andriol earlier on this year in March to suffer from a large dose of road rage and was at the point of getting out of my car and thumping some stupid twit, very uncharacteristic of me T fueled rage! :D
Age:60, Height 6' 3" weight 100KG
2014 Androderm Patches
2014-2016 Oral Andriol 160mg Daily
June 2016 Clomid/Serophene 12.5mg EOD
September 2016 no TRT all natural and supplements for the time being
February 2017 Testosterone cream 100mg daily

Sept 2016
Testosterone   8.2 nmol/l   9-38
Free Testosterone   239 pmol/l   L   250-800
SHBG:  14    nmol/L   9-60
Free Androgen index   586   >400
Oestradiol    112   pmol/L    <190
LH    2.6 IU/L Adult male   2 - 9 IU/L
FSH  1.4 IU/L Adult male L2 - 12 IU/L

22 November
T 6.8  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) L

March 2017
Testosterone:   45.0  nmol/L ( 9-38 ) H ( 1,323 ng/dl )
Free Testosterone:   1512  pmol/L ( 250-800 ) H
SHBG:   17  nmol/L ( 9-60 )
Plasma IGF-1:   227 ug/L ( 55-198 ) H
Plasma cortisol:   434 nmol/L ( 0600-1000 hrs 170-500 nmol/L )
HbA1c:   36 mmol/mol ( 20-40 )
LH:   <0.1 IU/L
FSH:   0.1 IU/L
DHT Plasma Dihydrotestosterone:   7455   pmol/L ( 223 ng/dl ) 
Reference Range Adult males  1000-6000 pmol/L

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Re: Best form of boron?
« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2016, 04:48:12 am »


HoboRed

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Re: Best form of boron?
« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2016, 06:23:20 am »
I have experience taking Boron (as Caclium Borogluconate) over the past 9 months. I am trying to fix my health, severe malnutrition, and I have Hair Test results showing my levels rise and fall over this 9 month time.  Usually I took just 3mg a day...skipping some days...but some days I took 9mg and that is when I experienced Agressiveness / Irritability HOWEVER sometimes Increased Concentration and the ability to breathe VERY Deeply has also been experienced. Increased lung capacity. Slightly increased my Strentgh. Opened my sinus'.  (Never had increased libido, at least any more than usual)

The negative effects of Boron, like Irritability, have occured 75% more often for me than the positive, better focus/ better breathing. From what I've noticed...it definatly, most postiviely, has something to do with how Boron depletes...and also helps retain other Vitamins and Minerals in the body.  For example, my level of Zinc has recently dropped very low on my Hair Test...and recently Boron has suddenly started to cause a Rash on my knuckles / bony areas.

I am currently on a very strict, specific diet to help correct my malnutrition. I've made HUGE improvements in 9 months. My copper, iron, magnesium, potassium, and manganese are back to normal...yet my Calcium is still very low because my Sodium is too high....eating too much salt has been dissolving my bone.  Therefore, I take other vitamins and minerals besides Boron, as recommend by the Hair Test people, to help lower my Sodium and raise Calcium. I am trying to figure out which of these minerals and vitamins that I am currently taking are causing the positive effects, or at least prevent the negative effects of Boron.

For the past 4 months my Diet has mostly been
Vitamin B6 100mg - 3x Daily
Magnesium 125mg - 2x Daily
Copper 2mg           1x Daily
Increased Calcium Intake (Milk, Cheese, Sardines, and Calcium Citrate supplement 1x Daily)
Increased intake of foods high in Lysine, Arigine, Histidine (Beans, Lentils)
Increase Potassium Intake (Bananas - Potatoes)
Increase Copper Intake (Liver)
Eat lots of eggs ( for Iron and Amino Acids)

**** SOON I will be conducting a "process of elemination" experiment over the coming days, in attempt to figure out WHAT is causing these "Boron Irritability" symptoms.  What perplexes me is...Coffee is high in Boron (about 1/2 mg Boron per medium-strong cup) and I drink at least 2 strong cups of Coffee every day...and it NEVER causes these kind of "high estrogen" irritability symptoms like when I take Calcium Borogluconate. It makes me act like a "Spoiled, Sarcastic A-Hole" when I don't get my way over the stupidest things, that normally would not bother me at all.  Coffee...Raisins...never cause any of these symptoms.  However, I have not eaten 9mg of Boron worth of Raisins to see if they cause High Concentration / Deep Breating yet either.   I will be testing this very soon.

This alone is making me believe that natural boron (Food Source) is better than supplemental Boron.  Food which contains high Boron, also contains all the other co-factors and enzymes that are probably necessary to metabolize said Boron without side effects. Maybe, idk yet.


I have a few theories about how to prevent Boron "Irritability" and get positive effects like Better Focus and Strength. 


1)  Boron depletes Vitamin B6.    I've been currently diagnosed with a B6 deficiency so I take extra B6 when I supplement Boron.  One symptom of B6 deficiency is Irritability.  I currently take 100mg B6 twice a day, as recommended by my Hair Test nutrition people. (According to the Hair Test people, ANY mineral you take, and some vitamins, all require vitamin B6 in some way to metabolize properly.  Taking too many supplements without enough B6 can cause a HUGE mineral imbalance.  The biggest role of Vitamin B6 in the body is to keep all Minerals in balance, preventing 1 mineral from dominitang another, so that proper ratios are maintained)

2)  Some studies say that Boron "metabolizes" Estrogen. Some say it increases Estrogen direclty, some say it increases Testosterone.  Personally...for me...it depends on my other Mineral Levels whether it gives me Stregnth or makes me irritable.  I've noticed that when I take Boron with Calicum Rich Foods....I get more of the "Strength" effect.  It makes me stand up straighter....my joints feel more fluid as well.  When I take Boron and forget my daily Calcium (I currently have a Calcium and Magnesium deficiency)  I get more irritable. 

3)  Boron metabolizes Copper, which in turn uses up Zinc.  Copper has an effect on mood when Zinc is low or a deficiency in Amino Acids used by copper are deficient.   Boron and Copper are (Right Brain) minerals that are known to increase creativity.  My recent Hair Test shows my Copper has gone up, yet not into the High Range.

4)  Boron effects Calcium and Magnesium metabolism. Both Calcium and Magnesium are "sedative" minerals, which cause irritibilty when they become out-of-balance.  Taking Boron without adequate Calcium and/or Magnesium could cause the irritability.  I am currently Calcium and Zinc deficient.

*** Since I started taking Vitamin D3 again about 4 weeks ago, I've noticed the irritiblilty from Boron happens at lower doses, even though my Boron is Low.  It used to take at least 6mg of Boron, 2 days in a row or longer, to cause the Irritability, but after I started Vitamin D3 again I getting Irritable at just 3mg.  NOTE: I have not been diagnosed with Low Vitamin D. I simply take it because I am trying to increase my Calcium levels. 

I don't have the Source, but I remember reading that Boron has an effect on Vitamin D3 metabolism as well. Right now I'm taking about 5 different minerals/vitamins daily so Its hard to pinpoint which is helping or causing the Boron "irritability".  In my attempt to increase my Calcium levels, I'll be messing with these minerals (Boron, Calcium, Magnesium, Vitamin D3 and Vitamin B6) probably for the next 2 months.

My recent Hair Test has also revealed a "Zinc" deficiency....so that might explain why I don't get any increase in Libido when I take Boron.


EDIT: 

I forgot to mention....on the occassions when Boron has caused "irritability"....anytime the symptoms persisted longer than 48 hours I would take extra vitamin B6....DIM (estrogen metabolizer) and increase my Calcium intake.  The irritability would always dissappear by the next day.   I also drink at least 3/4 gallon of water a day, because of my recent High Sodium.

Not sure if the DIM or B6 or Calcium is helping....so I've decided to try taking Boron and DIM at the same time, and see if the Irritability symptoms appear or not.  Then try again with other minerals...taking a 3 day break in between with NO Boron. 
« Last Edit: October 07, 2016, 06:28:55 am by HoboRed »

Cataceous

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Re: Best form of boron?
« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2016, 12:04:27 pm »
...
Hopefully the motivation and assertiveness will improve too but not the aggression. I had occasion whilst still on Andriol earlier on this year in March to suffer from a large dose of road rage and was at the point of getting out of my car and thumping some stupid twit, very uncharacteristic of me T fueled rage! :D

This paper links aggressive behavior to higher testosterone and lower serotonin. It may be possible to address low serotonin with l-tryptophan supplementation. 5-HTP might be more effective but it's also riskier in my view.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
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HoboRed

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Re: Best form of boron?
« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2016, 02:45:26 pm »
5-HTP makes my throat swell and sometimes feels like im going to vomit.  Never had any problems with L-Tryptophan.

This is making me think now.  Last month I had to take L-Dopa because my Manganese got too high on a recent Hair Test.  Taking L-Dopa is a common cure for Manganese toxicity because Dopamine depletes peripheral Manganese.   

I am starting to wonder now, if the "Irritibility" that I get lately after taking Boron is from Low Serotonin.  Too much Dopamine will begin to dominate Serotonin, and I have not been eating much Turkey lately or taking L-Tryptophan with my L-Dopa. Silly me, I usually keep my neuro's in balance.

I am going to have to get some L-Tryptophan at GNC.   I would eat some turkey but I like supplements when playing the "is this my cure" game, because the results are more immediate.
 

Boxcar

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Re: Best form of boron?
« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2016, 06:49:09 pm »
...
Hopefully the motivation and assertiveness will improve too but not the aggression. I had occasion whilst still on Andriol earlier on this year in March to suffer from a large dose of road rage and was at the point of getting out of my car and thumping some stupid twit, very uncharacteristic of me T fueled rage! :D

This paper links aggressive behavior to higher testosterone and lower serotonin. It may be possible to address low serotonin with l-tryptophan supplementation. 5-HTP might be more effective but it's also riskier in my view.

I have found that fish oil boosts serotonin.
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wellshii

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Re: Best form of boron?
« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2017, 03:07:32 am »
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21129941

Didnt specify which type.
Honestly though, I am sure any will do especially if deficient.

PeakT

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Re: Best form of boron?
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2017, 06:07:14 pm »
I have experience taking Boron (as Caclium Borogluconate) over the past 9 months. I am trying to fix my health, severe malnutrition, and I have Hair Test results showing my levels rise and fall over this 9 month time.  Usually I took just 3mg a day...skipping some days...but some days I took 9mg and that is when I experienced Agressiveness / Irritability HOWEVER sometimes Increased Concentration and the ability to breathe VERY Deeply has also been experienced. Increased lung capacity. Slightly increased my Strentgh. Opened my sinus'.  (Never had increased libido, at least any more than usual)

The negative effects of Boron, like Irritability, have occured 75% more often for me than the positive, better focus/ better breathing. From what I've noticed...it definatly, most postiviely, has something to do with how Boron depletes...and also helps retain other Vitamins and Minerals in the body.  For example, my level of Zinc has recently dropped very low on my Hair Test...and recently Boron has suddenly started to cause a Rash on my knuckles / bony areas.

I am currently on a very strict, specific diet to help correct my malnutrition. I've made HUGE improvements in 9 months. My copper, iron, magnesium, potassium, and manganese are back to normal...yet my Calcium is still very low because my Sodium is too high....eating too much salt has been dissolving my bone.  Therefore, I take other vitamins and minerals besides Boron, as recommend by the Hair Test people, to help lower my Sodium and raise Calcium. I am trying to figure out which of these minerals and vitamins that I am currently taking are causing the positive effects, or at least prevent the negative effects of Boron.

For the past 4 months my Diet has mostly been
Vitamin B6 100mg - 3x Daily
Magnesium 125mg - 2x Daily
Copper 2mg           1x Daily
Increased Calcium Intake (Milk, Cheese, Sardines, and Calcium Citrate supplement 1x Daily)
Increased intake of foods high in Lysine, Arigine, Histidine (Beans, Lentils)
Increase Potassium Intake (Bananas - Potatoes)
Increase Copper Intake (Liver)
Eat lots of eggs ( for Iron and Amino Acids)

**** SOON I will be conducting a "process of elemination" experiment over the coming days, in attempt to figure out WHAT is causing these "Boron Irritability" symptoms.  What perplexes me is...Coffee is high in Boron (about 1/2 mg Boron per medium-strong cup) and I drink at least 2 strong cups of Coffee every day...and it NEVER causes these kind of "high estrogen" irritability symptoms like when I take Calcium Borogluconate. It makes me act like a "Spoiled, Sarcastic A-Hole" when I don't get my way over the stupidest things, that normally would not bother me at all.  Coffee...Raisins...never cause any of these symptoms.  However, I have not eaten 9mg of Boron worth of Raisins to see if they cause High Concentration / Deep Breating yet either.   I will be testing this very soon.

This alone is making me believe that natural boron (Food Source) is better than supplemental Boron.  Food which contains high Boron, also contains all the other co-factors and enzymes that are probably necessary to metabolize said Boron without side effects. Maybe, idk yet.


I have a few theories about how to prevent Boron "Irritability" and get positive effects like Better Focus and Strength. 


1)  Boron depletes Vitamin B6.    I've been currently diagnosed with a B6 deficiency so I take extra B6 when I supplement Boron.  One symptom of B6 deficiency is Irritability.  I currently take 100mg B6 twice a day, as recommended by my Hair Test nutrition people. (According to the Hair Test people, ANY mineral you take, and some vitamins, all require vitamin B6 in some way to metabolize properly.  Taking too many supplements without enough B6 can cause a HUGE mineral imbalance.  The biggest role of Vitamin B6 in the body is to keep all Minerals in balance, preventing 1 mineral from dominitang another, so that proper ratios are maintained)

2)  Some studies say that Boron "metabolizes" Estrogen. Some say it increases Estrogen direclty, some say it increases Testosterone.  Personally...for me...it depends on my other Mineral Levels whether it gives me Stregnth or makes me irritable.  I've noticed that when I take Boron with Calicum Rich Foods....I get more of the "Strength" effect.  It makes me stand up straighter....my joints feel more fluid as well.  When I take Boron and forget my daily Calcium (I currently have a Calcium and Magnesium deficiency)  I get more irritable. 

3)  Boron metabolizes Copper, which in turn uses up Zinc.  Copper has an effect on mood when Zinc is low or a deficiency in Amino Acids used by copper are deficient.   Boron and Copper are (Right Brain) minerals that are known to increase creativity.  My recent Hair Test shows my Copper has gone up, yet not into the High Range.

4)  Boron effects Calcium and Magnesium metabolism. Both Calcium and Magnesium are "sedative" minerals, which cause irritibilty when they become out-of-balance.  Taking Boron without adequate Calcium and/or Magnesium could cause the irritability.  I am currently Calcium and Zinc deficient.

*** Since I started taking Vitamin D3 again about 4 weeks ago, I've noticed the irritiblilty from Boron happens at lower doses, even though my Boron is Low.  It used to take at least 6mg of Boron, 2 days in a row or longer, to cause the Irritability, but after I started Vitamin D3 again I getting Irritable at just 3mg.  NOTE: I have not been diagnosed with Low Vitamin D. I simply take it because I am trying to increase my Calcium levels. 

I don't have the Source, but I remember reading that Boron has an effect on Vitamin D3 metabolism as well. Right now I'm taking about 5 different minerals/vitamins daily so Its hard to pinpoint which is helping or causing the Boron "irritability".  In my attempt to increase my Calcium levels, I'll be messing with these minerals (Boron, Calcium, Magnesium, Vitamin D3 and Vitamin B6) probably for the next 2 months.

My recent Hair Test has also revealed a "Zinc" deficiency....so that might explain why I don't get any increase in Libido when I take Boron.


EDIT: 

I forgot to mention....on the occassions when Boron has caused "irritability"....anytime the symptoms persisted longer than 48 hours I would take extra vitamin B6....DIM (estrogen metabolizer) and increase my Calcium intake.  The irritability would always dissappear by the next day.   I also drink at least 3/4 gallon of water a day, because of my recent High Sodium.

Not sure if the DIM or B6 or Calcium is helping....so I've decided to try taking Boron and DIM at the same time, and see if the Irritability symptoms appear or not.  Then try again with other minerals...taking a 3 day break in between with NO Boron.

Interesting.  Have to look at this more.  Thx HoboRed showing that boron, like everything else, has a range.
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Re: Best form of boron?
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2017, 06:07:14 pm »