foods I can eat

[PeakT]

Np.  Trans fats are basically just fats cooked at high heats until they are mangled.  So the issue is the level of heat and for how long as far as I know.  I have read so many negative things about trans fats that I do not really see a safe level for them and I avoid them at all costs.  I know it's frustrating because they sometimes get hidden in foods, but that's America for you.  You have to decide for yourself what you think acceptable risk is.

Now the most important thing:  get yourself checked out on that shoulder or whatever it is.  Don't let all this hard you've put in go to waste.

Yes, cardio and/or walnuts partially offset the blood flow issue of saturated fat.  Of course, exercise isn't a panacea, though, but if you want to partially over come the effects, I can see where you are headed.

I've got the feeling your're about to snap from all the changes and the dieting and so on.  And I have one comforting thought for you:  losing weight tends to lower inflammation and give better outcomes.  So if you can just eat half way decently, you should be in good shape.  So hang in there for the final stretch.

Also, one thing that Ornish talks about in his book is that if you give up fat for a couple of weeks, the craving for it goes away.  But if you even eat a little of it, the desire does not decrease at all.  I have noticed that myself.  So cold turkey may be better for you - you'll have to experiment.  On the other hand, you're making so many changes, maybe that's too much for you right now.

Also, if you are really struggling the low fat thing, then consider these two studies.  These studies show that under some circumstances, other dietary patterns may be very suited.  I'll let you read the studies just to keep this post to a reasonable length!

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa0708681

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa022637

[Blade78]

some foods for those off meals
http://www.franmccullough.com/goodfat/free.php

[Blade78]

Np.  Trans fats are basically just fats cooked at high heats until they are mangled.  So the issue is the level of heat and for how long as far as I know.  I have read so many negative things about trans fats that I do not really see a safe level for them and I avoid them at all costs.  I know it's frustrating because they sometimes get hidden in foods, but that's America for you.  You have to decide for yourself what you think acceptable risk is.

Now the most important thing:  get yourself checked out on that shoulder or whatever it is.  Don't let all this hard you've put in go to waste.

Yes, cardio and/or walnuts partially offset the blood flow issue of saturated fat.  Of course, exercise isn't a panacea, though, but if you want to partially over come the effects, I can see where you are headed.

I've got the feeling your're about to snap from all the changes and the dieting and so on.  And I have one comforting thought for you:  losing weight tends to lower inflammation and give better outcomes.  So if you can just eat half way decently, you should be in good shape.  So hang in there for the final stretch.

Also, one thing that Ornish talks about in his book is that if you give up fat for a couple of weeks, the craving for it goes away.  But if you even eat a little of it, the desire does not decrease at all.  I have noticed that myself.  So cold turkey may be better for you - you'll have to experiment.  On the other hand, you're making so many changes, maybe that's too much for you right now.

Also, if you are really struggling the low fat thing, then consider these two studies.  These studies show that under some circumstances, other dietary patterns may be very suited.  I'll let you read the studies just to keep this post to a reasonable length!

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa0708681

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa022637

food has been my drug for so long, I dont know what else to use
I know there are foods I can enjoy without killling myself, I just have to find them....

[PeakT]

some foods for those off meals
http://www.franmccullough.com/goodfat/free.php

I don't think you're int'd in food preparation, but it's fairly easy to make your own Power Bars.  Mike Mahler has a good recipe and there are many other great ones on the internet.  The good thing is that you can make those and you've got a stock or supply for awhile.  And you can take them anywhere...

[PeakT]

food has been my drug for so long, I dont know what else to use
I know there are foods I can enjoy without killling myself, I just have to find them....

This will sound kind of strange, but once you get in shape working out is actually a decent drug.  You can get a high that's quite remarkable if you learn not to overtrain and push yourself just the right amount.  I've always worked out over lunch and, whenever I miss it, I would find that I actually get angry and that's because I miss those few hours of "elation"...

If you're gonna cheat, dark chocolate is a pretty good way to do it.  Stearic acid does not raise cholesterol as much as other fats and a good brand will have some decent flavonoid content.

http://www.ajcn.org/content/60/6/986S
http://www.ynhh.org/about-us/chocolate

[Blade78]

I was thinking more along the lines of a meal to eat that is just easy and I can pick up as I go home
which is why I wanted names of food I can get at the store
Chipotle  seems have no transfats at least

[PeakT]

Sorry - I'm a little slow here.  Chipotle's is pretty good, but you're gonna get some fat of course, but I understand you're looking for mild compromise.  You can do similarly well at a Baja Fresh and other fast Mexican restaurants.  Many Asian fast food restaurants have brown rice with pretty safe ingredients (if they triple promise not to put any MSG in their food).  So there's a lot of choice actually if you are willing to go that route.

[Blade78]

Sorry - I'm a little slow here.  Chipotle's is pretty good, but you're gonna get some fat of course, but I understand you're looking for mild compromise.  You can do similarly well at a Baja Fresh and other fast Mexican restaurants.  Many Asian fast food restaurants have brown rice with pretty safe ingredients (if they triple promise not to put any MSG in their food).  So there's a lot of choice actually if you are willing to go that route.

I totally forgot about the HCAs in cooked meat
I am sorta at a fork in my road to regain my health.
I can either go vegan and eat vegan and buy a vegan cookbook
or
I can  have one meal a week, of whatever I want, if the other 90% of the time, Im vegan  and stay on my simple diet of veganish foods, like eggwhites/some fruit, lots of veggies(carrots, cucumbers, brocolli beets apples and  a few prunes)

I looked at vegan cookbook today at barnesand noble, which was great for me, it showed me what I'd be eating, calories, etc
http://www.nealbarnard.org/books.cfm
Neal D. Barnard, M.D., 21-Day Weight Loss Kickstart: Boost Metabolism, Lower Cholesterol, and Dramatically Improve Your Health (2011: Hachette Book Group)

thats the book
and the prep to make his food looks complex, I have no idea what the muck most of the ingredients are

so Im gonna go till June 11th, and eat what I listed before, (eggwhites/efas/some berries/veggies)   win my weight contest, get below 200lbs(presently at 225 or so)
and then see how I feel
I dont like complex stuff when it comes to eating.  I like to just grab my food and chow down
so I'll keep ya aprised, I still gotta make a results thread, its hader than I realized, but you will understand later
thanks
oh ,if you have a book that has vegan recipies, I'll  look through it/buy it maybe....just the title is good
when I first stated this weight loss contest, I told my old med school phyisioolgy teacher who  asked me why I was taking the drugs I was taking, he told me to go vegan
after reading Dr Neils book,  Im tired of having lost my health..I want to destroy a womans vagina again....perhaps I have said too much

[PeakT]

Vegans do very well - just look at Mike Mahler for a great example of a guy who is into the strength side of that world.  He has a good web site with quite a few interesting articles as well:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Mike_Mahler_Interview

Veganism is not really in vogue right now with men - it's just too countercultural at this point.  However, vegans have done very well in many studies and, as I point out, there are indications that they actually have better testosterone:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Testosterone_Vegetarian

NOTE:  I doubt a low fat vegan will have as high of T however.

I do have one important caution though if you are considering going that route, especially since you said you are a "sit down, slam it down" kind of eater:

If you're going to go vegan, watch out for the prepared foods.  There are a ton of prepared foods now for vegans and many of them are high glycemic foods.  I know of people who have done poorly on vegan and vegetarian diets, but it is because they were eating way too much white bread/white rice/cracker/granola-type stuff.  This is just as bad for you - maybe worse - than the carnivore that slurps down 40 grams of saturated fat every day to "boost his testosterone" and be a good caveman.

I know you're not suggesting that, but I'm just mentioning that, because, when we get busy, it's easy to lapse into the easy stuff.  You always want as low of a low glycemic load as possible (unless you're exercising two hours plus per day)...

One comment about the Bernard recipes - Ornish has good ones too in his books:  if you can take a few months to learn how to cook like that and memorize the basics, then I'm sure it gets much easier.  Of course, that's really the ideal.  You can probably learn to cook something very good with about a half hour or 45 minutes of work once you get organized and get it into the ol' memory banks.  And let me tell you:  if a woman sees a man who actually owns and operates a set of ginsu knives and knows what to do with a colander - well, that's got to pay big rewards later...

[Blade78]

NOTE:  I doubt a low fat vegan will have as high of T however.

Yes, I understand.  sorta
I read your article,l 12 Powerful Reasons To Go On a Low Fat Diet that had the blurb at the end
  "Depending on your dietary pattern before going on a Low Fat Diet, there is some chance that it could lower your testosterone a little.  Usually, one is more than compensated by the improved endothelial function, blood flow and nitric oxide, but it may be something watch out for.  However, if you have heart disease and erectile dysfunction, then you should - ask your doctor first of course! - go on the Ornish Diet anyway to partially reverse your problems. Remember that erectile dysfunction is primarily a cardiovascular problem.  The Low Fat Diet will help the great majority of guys out there with this issue.  "
so until I get my potbelly into a washboard belly, I will be eating low fat,
But how do you define low fat?
If I eat 0 trans fats and 0 saturated fats and increase omega-3s to 3-6grams/day(via Carlson's Norgigan Cod liver oil) would that help with my T-level if I'm on a low fat diet? or is the T-level needing non-omega-3s?

I do have one important caution though if you are considering going that route, especially since you said you are a "sit down, slam it down" kind of eater:

Yes, thats why I made this thread! 

I wonder why/how the body is differently affected by what you eat when you are lean vs fat

If you're going to go vegan, watch out for the prepared foods.  There are a ton of prepared foods now for vegans and many of them are high glycemic foods.  I know of people who have done poorly on vegan and vegetarian diets, but it is because they were eating way too much white bread/white rice/cracker/granola-type stuff.  This is just as bad for you - maybe worse - than the carnivore that slurps down 40 grams of saturated fat every day to "boost his testosterone" and be a good caveman.

I have found a site that shows just some ingredients to avoid, which I really hate always having have to look for, but still do (mostly)
http://blog.lef.org/2012/03/harmful-food-ingredients-to-avoid.html

the caveman remark is why I asked about the types of fat on a low fat diet.

I know you're not suggesting that, but I'm just mentioning that, because, when we get busy, it's easy to lapse into the easy stuff.  You always want as low of a low glycemic load as possible (unless you're exercising two hours plus per day)...

Oddly enough, I know you wrote blood sugar spikes lead to decreased testosterone
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/How-To-Increase-Testosterone-Naturally
  I've found I get amrous after a few carbs.... too many carbs and I get sleepy.....I'm not sure why that is, usually its post "cardio" we sleep or indulge in ice cream. etc( I thought this was from the dopamine spike or prolactin or something)

One comment about the Bernard recipes - Ornish has good ones too in his books:  if you can take a few months to learn how to cook like that and memorize the basics, then I'm sure it gets much easier.  Of course, that's really the ideal.  You can probably learn to cook something very good with about a half hour or 45 minutes of work once you get organized and get it into the ol' memory banks.  And let me tell you:  if a woman sees a man who actually owns and operates a set of ginsu knives and knows what to do with a colander - well, that's got to pay big rewards later...

back in 2002, I got myself down to 8% bodyfat, eating turkey patties, broccoili/oatmeal and eggwhites/...
it was easy, I'd make about a weeks worth of cooked patties and freeze them,
whenever I had a meal(which were mostly all planned) I'd nuke the meat and some veggies and eat.

point is, My goal isnt to spend 1 hour/meal, but to make a bunch of meals to be able to have
thats why I drink eggwhites, simple, easy to do, no prep time.
Thats why I want to know what I can eat at the store(prepacked food) so I can just grab something and eat it, and not spend 1 hour or so making a meal.

My eating habbits were so bad over the years, me  "self-medicating" for the crap in my life, I'd go to the store and grab some chocolate milk and cereal, it didnt matter what kind, Id just want food so Id get whatever was cheapest/closests to me in the asile.
I'm still the same way.....the only diffference is I am going healthy.(as per this site) so I want to grab stufff and eat it and stay healthy
I dont want to have to spend time each day making food, so currently I dont and Im making great progress.
the only change is I want more instant options..

[PeakT]

Okay, but I spend less than 10 minutes per day preparing food and maybe five minutes washing dishes.  Why not go that route?  I guess that's what I'm missing.  It's actually faster to make those kind of things at home cuzz you don't even have to drive to the store, wait in line, drive back, etc.

1.  Also watch out for salmonella with the raw egg whites.  If it doesn't kill you, it'll make you wish you were.
2.  fyi:  The turkey patties have significant AA.  Middle-aged and older guys - beware!

[Blade78]

Okay, but I spend less than 10 minutes per day preparing food and maybe five minutes washing dishes.  Why not go that route?  I guess that's what I'm missing.  It's actually faster to make those kind of things at home cuzz you don't even have to drive to the store, wait in line, drive back, etc.

I'm not foolish enough to not listen to what you have to say, I go through life trying to absorb what's useful;
so tell  me, what are some of these easy recipes you make?

 Perhaps I would skip the eggwhites/veggies and make something you eat and find that just as satisfying... because I cant go get food better/cheaper than i can make it, as the folllowing tale explains:

I went with my mom today out to chipolte.  We ate there the 1st day she came into town and she leaves tomorrow, but we liked it
it was  my 3rd time of being there.
after eating there, I looked online to see nutrition of the food
so when I went back, I had no taco/burrito shell, I just had steak/green and red peppers, onions and tomatoes and lots of lettuce
because they serve paper cups, I bring  my own with me to avoid BPa from papercups
I was eating my food , I have never eaten peppers or onions and just recently started eating tomatoes,, I looked what I was eating and realize,dCRAP I'm eating off a paper plate!


so If I want a meal to satisfy my cravings beyond the eggwhites/veggies/fruit I normally have, what do you have thats good?

1.  Also watch out for salmonella with the raw egg whites.  If it doesn't kill you, it'll make you wish you were.
2.  fyi:  The turkey patties have significant AA.  Middle-aged and older guys - beware!

Hmmm
let me revisit 2 things
1 I eat eggwhites(eggbeaters) they are commerical  eggwhites, I dont use raw eggs
2 I know longer eat turkey patties, that was over 10 yrs ago and helped me lost 10% bodyfat


But how do you define low fat?
If I eat 0 trans fats and 0 saturated fats and increase omega-3s to 3-6grams/day(via Carlson's Norgigan Cod liver oil) would that help with my T-level if I'm on a low fat diet? or is the T-level needing non-omega-3s to not decrease with a low fat diet?

[PeakT]

Sorry - gotta make this quick as I have family in town.

Low Fat a la Ornish and Esselstyn is about 10% of calories as fat.  However, it in the literature, "low fat" is actually definted as "very low fat" generally and is 15% or less.  I'm just mentioning it in case you do a pubmed type search.

Okay, here are two things I do:

I put some lentils - not too much or you'll hurt yourself - and a mixture of quinoa/millet/brown rice into a rice cooker.  In twenty minutes it's done and it's fluffy.  Then basically I add a bunch of superfoods to it.  My favorites are squeezed limes with various Italian herbs and a bunch of shredded cabbage that I buy in a bag.  The whole thing takes me maybe 7 minutes of prep time.  Then I take the whole thing to work with me and eat it during the day.  Oh and I left out salsa:  I buy that in a glass jar and add that (but not too much to avoid the salt that is in it).

Now it tastes pretty good to me:  it's kind of like tabouli.  So that's an example.  But there's a 100 other things you can throw in there if you're creative at all.  But I'm not creative when it comes to food - sorry!

Another I do is use a little oat meal and cook it with a little Maca and blueberries.  I will then add a little jelly to it - the kind that is all fruit juice and no corn syrup or sugar - and bam I'm done.  That takes maybe two minutes of work.

I also use undenatured whey protein powder and other undenatured protein powders along with egg whites, etc.

Now I know all of that is kind of primitive and not for most people, so that's why I don't really go into it.  You'll have to come up with your own way that you like.  Just stay on the whole foods if at all possible and you'll be in good shape.  Keep the fat relatively low - you don't have to be religious about it - and you'll do great.

By the way, the naturopathic doctor on this site swears by getting your essential fats a al Udo's, etc.  There's anothe rthing you can slam down (but don't go crazy).  That's not part of a low fat diet by the way, but it's a quick 140 calories.  Or nuts/seeds are another great choice for a small part of your diet.  I will eat a little bit of sunflower seeds often:  they're a great source of panthothenic acid.

Hope that helps...

[Blade78]

Sorry - gotta make this quick as I have family in town.

there is no reason to rush

Low Fat a la Ornish and Esselstyn is about 10% of calories as fat.  However, it in the literature, "low fat" is actually definted as "very low fat" generally and is 15% or less.  I'm just mentioning it in case you do a pubmed type search.

Perhaps I wasnt clear enough with my question,
to get enough fat to not affect my testosterone level, how much do fat do I need?
can this fat be omega-3s or do I need to eat saturated fat?

Okay, here are two things I do:

I put some lentils - not too much or you'll hurt yourself - and a mixture of quinoa/millet/brown rice into a rice cooker.  In twenty minutes it's done and it's fluffy.  Then basically I add a bunch of superfoods to it.  My favorites are squeezed limes with various Italian herbs and a bunch of shredded cabbage that I buy in a bag.  The whole thing takes me maybe 7 minutes of prep time.  Then I take the whole thing to work with me and eat it during the day.  Oh and I left out salsa:  I buy that in a glass jar and add that (but not too much to avoid the salt that is in it).

why would too many lentils hurt me?  how much is too much?
Would you pass on a products name you like? this sounds like a good recipe

Now it tastes pretty good to me:  it's kind of like tabouli.  So that's an example.  But there's a 100 other things you can throw in there if you're creative at all.  But I'm not creative when it comes to food - sorry!

I like results, the means to get these results is usually inverse to the results. hard work=good results= easy work=poor results, etc

Another I do is use a little oat meal and cook it with a little Maca and blueberries.  I will then add a little jelly to it - the kind that is all fruit juice and no corn syrup or sugar - and bam I'm done.  That takes maybe two minutes of work.

I use Maca from NOW, it comes in a pill form. what is the name of te MACA product you are using?  what kind of oatmeal? old fashioned quaker?
 

By the way, the naturopathic doctor on this site swears by getting your essential fats a al Udo's, etc.  There's anothe rthing you can slam down (but don't go crazy).  That's not part of a low fat diet by the way, but it's a quick 140 calories.  Or nuts/seeds are another great choice for a small part of your diet.  I will eat a little bit of sunflower seeds often:  they're a great source of panthothenic acid.!

I got lost here, what is Udos?
Do you mean, "Udo's Choice Oil Blend?" That's not on Consumer labs, so what relevance is it that a naturopathic  doctor "swears" by it?

Hope that helps...

Actually it did, I dont mean to pick apart what you wrote, but I  dont 100% everything, so I simply asked
This post helped me because I had asked a friend, who was eating a fatty meal in front of me(even though her family all has diabetes) what she thought about a "vegan" diet and she told me vegans were a small cluster of nutjobs who didnt have a lot of choice in what to eat to stay "vegan" and the foods they could get meant lots of prep time.
I told her I was eating vegan, eggwhites and fruit for the most part, and I spent nearly no prep time.(washing fruit, going to the store, but everyone has to shop at stores, so that time is moot)

I found 2 pre-made fooods and I wondered what you thought about them
Quorn Chik'n Juggets
http://www.quorn.us/products/Chik%27n_Nuggets
Ingredients

Mycoprotein (28%), rehydrated egg white, enriched wheat flour (niacin, reduced iron, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, folic acid), canola oil, onions, textured wheat protein (wheat protein, wheat starch). Contains 2% or less of whey protein concentrate, salt, buttermilk powder, rice flour, dextrose, yeast, garlic powder, autolyzed yeast extract, tapioca starch, pectin, natural flavors from non-meat sources, sunflower oil, ascorbic acid, black and white pepper, citric acid, onion powder, gum arabic, celery seed, calcium lactate, paprika extract, lemon oil

Made from natural ingredients.

and

"Amys Burrito"

http://www.amys.com/products/product-detail/burritos-and-wraps/000070

Ingredients :
(Vegan) Organic pinto beans, organic whole wheat & wheat flour, filtered water, organic brown rice, organic tomato puree, expeller pressed high oleic safflower and/or sunflower oil, organic onions, organic bell peppers, organic sweet rice flour, sea salt, spices, organic wheat gluten, organic garlic. Contains wheat.

[PeakT]

1.  You first q is difficult to definitely answer.  The studies were a) generally small, b) only certain subpopulations, c) often changed more than one variable (fat and fiber for example) and so on.  However, you can get an idea by reading this link:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/TwoFs
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Testosterone_Diet

And here is the million dollar question:  do men who eat a lower fat diet and possibly end up with a little lower testosterone preserve their testosterone several decades longer than other men?  There is some epidemiological evidence that this is the case.  For example, let's see you eat a lower fat and lower your T from 675 to 530.  Now your T is relatively high and your endothelium is in incredible shape.  You are probably pumping out nitric oxide and avoiding arteriosclerosis and inflammation.  And best of all:  you are in good shape when you hit 70.  You probably still have testosterone close to 530 and your endothelium is doing excellent. 

In fact, you approach your wife and tell her you want to start a second family.  Of course, she slaps you so hard that you never ask that question again...

But the bottom line is no one knows the answer to an exact fat level per unit testosterone question.  You will have to that experiment yourself (which is possible with place like Life Extension, etc.)

2.  Have you ever eaten a lot of lentils?  I don't think you have, but let's just say it's the equivalent of inflating your colon to about 200 psi. 

3.  I use Navitas powder.  Some guys would do better with the gelatinized from due to digestive (enzyme) issues.

4.  Well, the doc - naturopath on this board - that I am referring to has had good success with giving essential fats to his patients.  You'll have to ask him for details though.

5.  The comments about vegans, with all due respect to your friend, is completely ignorant.  Mike Mahler will grab your friend and throw him/her over over a 12 foot high jump rail - he's built an incredible physique and excellent strength on a vegan-only diet and quite a few other top level athletes have done the same.  Furthermore, vegans have excellent testosterone and great mortality.  I'm not vegan, but I very much respect the results and your friend should too imo.

6.  It's really too hard to evaluate individual products.  One of the reasons is that you have to decide 1) what your dietary system really is, 2) how much "cheating" you are going to allow and other similar questions.  I will say this though:

 Imo you always want to avoid  1) excitotoxins and 2) trans fats and severely limit 3) high glycemic foods.