oxytocin/vasopressin- question to TRT guys

[pvm21]

Anyone have any good info on these two hormones. I have been reading that both are produced and stored in the pituitary. And I know that both are involved in love, comradery, bonding, friendship etc.

Now, since my pituitary function has been compromised, I havent been able to take part in any of the things these two hormones promote, as comradey/bonding and love are two things I can't feel since then.

My question to guys on TRT.. Do you have any problems with these things? I ask because if you are on TRT your pituitary is basically shut down since you are getting your T somewhere else. Now does this mean oxytocin/vasopressin are also shut down with it, or is it a completely different function.

[PeakT]

I have a little info here:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/testosterone_brain

Sam posted a great video off of TED (Paul Zaks) here:

https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1095.0

See also these:

https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1420

https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1972.msg18623#msg18623

https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1452

[JackAndy]

Anyone have any good info on these two hormones. I have been reading that both are produced and stored in the pituitary. And I know that both are involved in love, comradery, bonding, friendship etc.

Now, since my pituitary function has been compromised, I havent been able to take part in any of the things these two hormones promote, as comradey/bonding and love are two things I can't feel since then.

My question to guys on TRT.. Do you have any problems with these things? I ask because if you are on TRT your pituitary is basically shut down since you are getting your T somewhere else. Now does this mean oxytocin/vasopressin are also shut down with it, or is it a completely different function.

Nope, I don't have any problem with those things. It's the same before and after TRT for me. I'm mostly the same but less depressed, less irritable and more confident so I'm pretty sure that it has helped my love life and friendships if anything.

[pvm21]

So exogenous T can actually help those things? Im getting mixed messages because peak on your site, as a con of T you have listed decreased oxytocin. Am I reading that right?

[pvm21]

Before this all happened, Id say I probably was someone with high oxytocin and not High T. I was a sucker for charity, sympathy, empathy etc. very warm/fuzzy type person. Never a high energy high aggressiveness type.

Now all that empathy and warmth is gone and I want it back. Thats why im asking if it can come back with exogenous T as that may be my last option. I hope I can be the same person I was.

[PeakT]

So exogenous T can actually help those things? Im getting mixed messages because peak on your site, as a con of T you have listed decreased oxytocin. Am I reading that right?

Well, I'm sure it's much more complex than this, but if you listen to the Paul Zaks video above - I'm not a video guy but this was well worth it imo - he states that

1.  Oxytocin helps us bond and allows us to feel empathy for one another and is key hormone holding the social fabric together.
2.  As testosterone goes up, oxytocin goes down.
3.  High testosterone men for this reason tend to be less empathetic and more willing to punish others.

So the decreased oxytocin could happen from a man who went to pretty high testosterone levels in his HRT.  As far as I know, no one has formally studied that though, so it's all theorectical at this point.

Now a low testosterone man has so many brain issues per my link above that worrying about oxytocin is really beside the point.  A guy with classic low testosterone symptoms will be suffering from a variety of the following:  fatigue, mental fog, decreased forms of memory, decreased visual/spatial, anxiety, depression, etc.  It's hard for him to be empathetic cuzz he's so dang miserable!

[pvm21]

That makes sense. But I guess my question is more along the lines of this. If the pituitary is shut down and cant make its own testosterone. Can it make its own oxytocin, or is that not  how it works?

[PeakT]

That makes sense. But I guess my question is more along the lines of this. If the pituitary is shut down and cant make its own testosterone. Can it make its own oxytocin, or is that not  how it works?

Oh, I see!  Sorry I missed your main question.  Yes, hypopituitarism, as it is called, can lead to decreased levels of oxytocin.  No one really tests for that.

Paul Zaks jokes that there is scientific word for people with oxytocin deficiency:  bastards!

[pvm21]

That sucks. So basically if you are on TRT you will not be producing oxytocin or atleast at a good rate. So basically you can forget getting those warm fuzzy feelings again? Can guys on TRT chime in here. Are those feelings at a lose for you or can you still experience them?

[PeakT]

That sucks. So basically if you are on TRT you will not be producing oxytocin or atleast at a good rate. So basically you can forget getting those warm fuzzy feelings again? Can guys on TRT chime in here. Are those feelings at a lose for you or can you still experience them?

This is all theoretical.  As far as I know, there are no studies.  I feel pretty normal in the empathy category. 

Btw, this has nothing to do with feeling emotions.  In fact, when I got my testosterone normalized again, I remember thinking, "Now I remember what it feels to feel."  There were certain profound feelings and moods that I could not experience when I was low T:  there just wasn't enough brain juice to go around for feelings of elation for example.

Also, you should read the article Sam posted entitled Testosterone and Politics.  Basically it shows some studywork that essentially says that testosterone can be a positive social force or a negative - it really depends how it is used.

[pvm21]

That makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up. I was just seeing if those are feelings that cant be recovered, and it seems like they can be when hormones get leveled.