200% increase in Test in 6 weeks on Clomid

[PeakT]

And congrats on being a high responder to Clomid!
Once I increased the Arimidex, the chest pains subsided.  So, the conclusion is that the excess estrogen was the culprit.  I never really had nipple sensitivity (except in the first week), just the chest pains.

Wow.  Well, that's scary is all I can say.  I've got to research that a bit more.  You seem pretty calm about it all, so kudos to you for not panicking.

So libido and morning erections, etc. are good on the Clomid?

[dwilcox]

Hows the joint pain now? That is a symptom of mine, going into clomid.

Joint pain still remains.  I'm guessing I'll probably need to look elsewhere than hormones to alleviate this issue.  Food allergies or vitamin deficiencies will probably be my starting point.

[dwilcox]

Wow.  Well, that's scary is all I can say.  I've got to research that a bit more.  You seem pretty calm about it all, so kudos to you for not panicking.

So libido and morning erections, etc. are good on the Clomid?

I've found that I'm really sensitive to the estrogen and Arimidex.  If I look at my initial #s, I'm probably a bit high on the T/E ratios.  I always kept this in the back of my mind and just figured that as I've aged, I convert more to estrogen than most 46 year old men.  But when my T shot up to 1200, I figured my estrogen would be very excessive.

The Arimidex initially through me off.  I would take 1/4 or 1/2 tablet and my sternum would hurt like a mutha for the next 24 hours.  So I thought this was causing the chest pains and I slacked off using it.  What we found was that if I took a smaller dose of Arimidex (like 1/6th a tab) EOD, I wouldn't get the sternum pains, and the chest pain went away in about a week.  I think others have shared my view that they should manufacture Arimidex in smaller dosages!!

I hate to sound so positive because I know others on the forum have struggled with ED, but once I got the estrogen under control, libido has/is probably better than before.  I also get awaken around 3:00 am with wood that could poke a hole through the bed sheets.   Unfortunately that effects my sleep.  I rarely have trouble getting to sleep at night, but once I wake up, I hardly ever get back to sleep without some Ambien.  I really want to kick that narcotic habit, but haven't been able to in about 5 years.  I read that excessive estrogen causes sleep disorders, maybe after lowering the clomid dosage again, I'll have better sleep.   

[PeakT]

Wow.  Well, that's scary is all I can say.  I've got to research that a bit more.  You seem pretty calm about it all, so kudos to you for not panicking.

So libido and morning erections, etc. are good on the Clomid?

I've found that I'm really sensitive to the estrogen and Arimidex.  If I look at my initial #s, I'm probably a bit high on the T/E ratios.  I always kept this in the back of my mind and just figured that as I've aged, I convert more to estrogen than most 46 year old men.  But when my T shot up to 1200, I figured my estrogen would be very excessive.

The Arimidex initially through me off.  I would take 1/4 or 1/2 tablet and my sternum would hurt like a mutha for the next 24 hours.  So I thought this was causing the chest pains and I slacked off using it.  What we found was that if I took a smaller dose of Arimidex (like 1/6th a tab) EOD, I wouldn't get the sternum pains, and the chest pain went away in about a week.  I think others have shared my view that they should manufacture Arimidex in smaller dosages!!

I hate to sound so positive because I know others on the forum have struggled with ED, but once I got the estrogen under control, libido has/is probably better than before.  I also get awaken around 3:00 am with wood that could poke a hole through the bed sheets.   Unfortunately that effects my sleep.  I rarely have trouble getting to sleep at night, but once I wake up, I hardly ever get back to sleep without some Ambien.  I really want to kick that narcotic habit, but haven't been able to in about 5 years.  I read that excessive estrogen causes sleep disorders, maybe after lowering the clomid dosage again, I'll have better sleep.

Watch out for the Ambien.  I had a relative who was mini-strokes from it and passed on the kitchen floor with a steak knife.  When she went off the Ambien, she never had another one.

We've probably discussed this before but there are other much more safe alternative imo:  magnesium, melatonin (cycled), Valerian (works in some guys) and some of the anti-stress herbs (rhodiola and ashwagandha) for example.  Zinc can help some men. 

Can't remember what you said, but you may be high cortisol in the evening.  It is quite common for high evening cortisol to keep a guy up. If you haven't checked, it might be wise.  Some phosphatidylserine can knock that down in the short term and PMR/meditation in the long term if that is the case.  But that's going to be a heck of a lot more safe over the years than Ambien or a pharmaceutical solution.

Let me know what you think...

[dwilcox]

We've probably discussed this before but there are other much more safe alternative imo:  magnesium, melatonin (cycled), Valerian (works in some guys) and some of the anti-stress herbs (rhodiola and ashwagandha) for example.  Zinc can help some men. 

Can't remember what you said, but you may be high cortisol in the evening.  It is quite common for high evening cortisol to keep a guy up. If you haven't checked, it might be wise.  Some phosphatidylserine can knock that down in the short term and PMR/meditation in the long term if that is the case.  But that's going to be a heck of a lot more safe over the years than Ambien or a pharmaceutical solution.


Man, Peak, your like an Encyclopedia of men's health knowledge!! 

I've tried magnesium, melatonin, valerian root, and zinc previously - and they didn't seem to work.  Haven't tried the others though.  Again, my issue isn't falling asleep, it's getting back to sleep after waking up (generally to take a leak, although that's been a challenge lately as I have to wait for the wood to subside). 
I guess Ambien has a short half life, so I can take it at 2am and it wears off by breakfast time.  I seem to go in cycles, a few weeks with good sleep, then a few weeks with only 3 hours per night (unless I resort to the Ambien).  I'll look into the herbs and phosphatidylserine, thanks for pointing them out.  I'm determined to get rid of the Ambien.

[PeakT]

We've probably discussed this before but there are other much more safe alternative imo:  magnesium, melatonin (cycled), Valerian (works in some guys) and some of the anti-stress herbs (rhodiola and ashwagandha) for example.  Zinc can help some men. 

Can't remember what you said, but you may be high cortisol in the evening.  It is quite common for high evening cortisol to keep a guy up. If you haven't checked, it might be wise.  Some phosphatidylserine can knock that down in the short term and PMR/meditation in the long term if that is the case.  But that's going to be a heck of a lot more safe over the years than Ambien or a pharmaceutical solution.


Man, Peak, your like an Encyclopedia of men's health knowledge!! 

I've tried magnesium, melatonin, valerian root, and zinc previously - and they didn't seem to work.  Haven't tried the others though.  Again, my issue isn't falling asleep, it's getting back to sleep after waking up (generally to take a leak, although that's been a challenge lately as I have to wait for the wood to subside). 
I guess Ambien has a short half life, so I can take it at 2am and it wears off by breakfast time.  I seem to go in cycles, a few weeks with good sleep, then a few weeks with only 3 hours per night (unless I resort to the Ambien).  I'll look into the herbs and phosphatidylserine, thanks for pointing them out.  I'm determined to get rid of the Ambien.

Again, though, I would actually check your cortisol levels.  I kind of outline the common strategies that I see the Adrenal Fatigue gurus cover here:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/adrenal_fatigue_testing

Also, when you wake up are you shaky/anxious/sweating or any other hypoglycemic symptoms.  Some guys go hypoglycemic in the middle of the night and it wakes them up.  If it seems to match, get an inexpensive blood glucose monitor and test yourself.  That's pretty uncommon, but it can happen.

And I know melatonin is a hormone and may not be something you want to do all the time.  But if you take some melatonin - preferably less than 300 mcg - and sleep incredibly well, then that may be a sign that low melatonin is a root issues.  In that case, you need to look things like eliminating the blue light before bed (from computers/TV screens, etc.), etc.

[dwilcox]

Thanks, I'll look into the adrenal fatigue more.

I don't think I've had my cortisol levels checked, but will ask to have it done on the next blood draw.  I did have my DHEA Sulfate, it was around 115 which is in the normal range. 

Don't have any of the hypoglycemic symptoms.  I have a Dr appt Tuesday, will talk it over with him.

[PeakT]

Thanks, I'll look into the adrenal fatigue more.

I don't think I've had my cortisol levels checked, but will ask to have it done on the next blood draw.  I did have my DHEA Sulfate, it was around 115 which is in the normal range. 

Don't have any of the hypoglycemic symptoms.  I have a Dr appt Tuesday, will talk it over with him.

You need at least a 3 point cirtisol read for adrenal fatigue diagnosis.  Your doc will probably not go for that.

[WoundedLion]

Hey Clomid high responders congrats pvm21, dwilcox , i responded very well to clomid ...a few months ago it raised my T level from 622 t0 966 in 6 weeks , i thought that was good but unfortunately it didnt lead to improvement in my ED.
Im just keen to know whether that the 200% increase lead to  better erections, spontaneous erections , regular frequent morning erections ....
Unless of course your motive for clomid was just to increase T  for other reasons rather than ED.

[davie12]

Thanks, I'll look into the adrenal fatigue more.

I don't think I've had my cortisol levels checked, but will ask to have it done on the next blood draw.  I did have my DHEA Sulfate, it was around 115 which is in the normal range. 

Don't have any of the hypoglycemic symptoms.  I have a Dr appt Tuesday, will talk it over with him.

FYI...that DHEA Sulfate reading is pretty low...at the low end of the range, even considering someone in their 40s. If you mention that you have sleeping issues as well, that might be a good indicator of a potential cortisol/DHEA problem.

[PeakT]

FYI...that DHEA Sulfate reading is pretty low...at the low end of the range, even considering someone in their 40s. If you mention that you have sleeping issues as well, that might be a good indicator of a potential cortisol/DHEA problem.

How do you see guy's attacking that?  Raising DHEA or lowering cortisol or both?

[davie12]

FYI...that DHEA Sulfate reading is pretty low...at the low end of the range, even considering someone in their 40s. If you mention that you have sleeping issues as well, that might be a good indicator of a potential cortisol/DHEA problem.

How do you see guy's attacking that?  Raising DHEA or lowering cortisol or both?

I would attack it from the cortisol side (presuming he's got a cortisol related issue in the 1st place). If the cortisol is lowered or rather regulated properly with a normal Circadian rhythm, the DHEA should take care of itself. This should also increase testosterone naturally to some extent. However, DHEA in and of itself is more than just a precursor to testosterone. It is actually a hormone that is in tissues and cells. So people with good DHEA levels will have good skin, a good sense of wellness, better erectile health, much better immunity to disease, less likelihood of bone problems...and a whole bunch of other benefits.

[PeakT]

I split some commentary and questions by Davie and Dwilcox on DHEA and Cortisol here:

https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=2707.0

[dwilcox]

So, I've been Clomid free for about 2 months now, here is my latest test results:

	08/23/2013	10/02/2013	11/08/2013	01/05/2014	Range
Test, Serum	428	1285	1172	545	(348-1197)
Test, Free	12.0	N/A	26.9*	N/A	(6.8-21.5)
Estradiol	26.5	90.4	59.1	28.6	(7.6-42.6)
LH	N/A	14.1	10.1	3.3	(1.7-8.6)
FSH	N/A	11.7	9.2	4.3	(1.5-12.4)
Clomid	N/A	25mg EOD	12.5 MWF	N/A
Arimidex	N/A	.5mg /wk	1mg / wk	N/A

* Calculated

It looks like my Total Test increased about 27% over the amount prior to starting Clomid. 

[PeakT]

Well, any increase is an improvement, eh?  How are you feeling though? 

Also, why did you wait two months?  Is that considered an adequate washout period?