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Author Topic: clomid restart  (Read 20079 times)

pvm21

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clomid restart
« on: November 01, 2013, 08:56:14 pm »
I took clomid back in july. 50 mg every day. Shot my levels up (1550), but 3 months being off clomid, everything crashed back down and total testosterone is back in the 300s.

I am now trying a 6 week run of 25 mg MWF. Hopefully this wont shoot me up too high, and will work long term. I will let you all know. I am 23 by the way.

dwilcox

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Re: clomid restart
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2013, 09:19:17 pm »
Good luck.  You might want to read over Dr. Crisler's recommendation for HPTA Restart -

Here's how you do it:

Start at 12.5mgs Clomid per day. After 3 weeks, run these labs (which you ran before you started, BTW):

TT
LH
FSH
SHBG
E2 (sensitive only)

If you feel much better--the goal of therapy--you are all set. Even if your T levels don't look great; that would mean you happened to catch your new production level at a trough.

If you don't feel much better, have your LH and FSH levels risen substantially? If not, increase the dose to 25mgs. A couple weeks later, the same labs again. You can go to 37.5mgs, then 50mg per day if necessary. Notice we are employing 1/4 tab increases, for convenience.

If LH/FSH rose substantially, and T did not, and you still don't feel well, look to testicular failure as your issue.

Of note, some have gotten great results on only 12.5mgs every other day.

If your T rose nicely, but SHBG also shot up, this counteracts the benefit. The estrogen half of the SERM-class drug did that. Try some Danazol, 50mg per day, oral, to try to lower SHBG.

If E shot up, add anastrazole, starting at 0.25mg every other day, and increase as necessary. Remember, it takes several weeks for E and SHBG to restabilize (SHBG may lower with the E).

Using this protocol can help you avoid going on frank TRT. That would be a good thing.

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: clomid restart
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2013, 09:19:17 pm »


pvm21

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Re: clomid restart
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2013, 09:32:22 pm »
Thanks for that info. I might try the 12.5 everyday for first couple weeks. I guess it would be the same as 25 mg eod? Idiotcally, I took the whole pill today for day 1. 50mg. But starting Monday I will cut them.

What sucks is it seems that clomid doesnt help people with symptoms. I know while I was on clomid 3 months ago, I didnt feel better. But I also shot shbg and e2 too high since TT went up to 1550.

I hope this restart works, or else I rather do actual TRT than long term clomid

dwilcox

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Re: clomid restart
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2013, 09:44:52 pm »
I think what Crisler is saying is that just raising your T levels may not make you feel better.  You also need your E2, SHBG, and Free Test inline. 

Note what Crisler says -

If your T rose nicely, but SHBG also shot up, this counteracts the benefit. The estrogen half of the SERM-class drug did that. Try some Danazol, 50mg per day, oral, to try to lower SHBG.

If E shot up, add anastrazole, starting at 0.25mg every other day, and increase as necessary. Remember, it takes several weeks for E and SHBG to restabilize (SHBG may lower with the E).


Good luck  :)

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: clomid restart
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2013, 09:44:52 pm »


pvm21

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Re: clomid restart
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2013, 09:51:26 pm »
Thank you!

I wonder if I should stray from my own doctors protocol of 25mg eod and do the 12.5mg. I know Im a high responder so I might benefit from 12.5 mg eod. 50 everyday shot me to 1550 which isnt what I want.

pvm21

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Re: clomid restart
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2013, 06:06:22 pm »
Just an update and a question on my restart progress.

I am 2 weeks in on 25mg eod. Blood work in 3 more weeks. I havent felt any better, joints still weak and achy, depression still brutal, libido non existant. Not surprised since its only been 2 weeks. If this restart doesnt work I will probably just seek out TRT, even though Im only 23. I cant live like this.

Blood work right before starting the restart had

TT at 390 (350-1200).
SHBG at 48 (10-90)
Estradiol 22 (10-42) REGULAR test, so its probably not accurate.
LH/FSH below 2.

My question is, how long does a good clomid restart run for? 2-3 months? longer? and do you ween off of it? Just trying to be prepared for when I see my doctor.

I am doing this as an attempted restart, not long term solution, so if it doesnt work I will try another method, if not just go on TRT despite being only 23.

PeakT

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Re: clomid restart
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2013, 07:03:19 pm »
Just an update and a question on my restart progress.

I am 2 weeks in on 25mg eod. Blood work in 3 more weeks. I havent felt any better, joints still weak and achy, depression still brutal, libido non existant. Not surprised since its only been 2 weeks. If this restart doesnt work I will probably just seek out TRT, even though Im only 23. I cant live like this.

Blood work right before starting the restart had

TT at 390 (350-1200).
SHBG at 48 (10-90)
Estradiol 22 (10-42) REGULAR test, so its probably not accurate.
LH/FSH below 2.

My question is, how long does a good clomid restart run for? 2-3 months? longer? and do you ween off of it? Just trying to be prepared for when I see my doctor.

I am doing this as an attempted restart, not long term solution, so if it doesnt work I will try another method, if not just go on TRT despite being only 23.

I believe 3 months should be adequate.  Hopefully, JackAndy will jump in here.  He had a brutal time with Clomid I guess and now pretty well likes it.  But you have any of these big changes several months at a bare minimum to really test things.  I know that on the fertility side, it can take even longer to get things going.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

JackAndy

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Re: clomid restart
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2013, 01:37:01 am »
My question is, how long does a good clomid restart run for? 2-3 months? longer? and do you ween off of it? Just trying to be prepared for when I see my doctor.

I am doing this as an attempted restart, not long term solution, so if it doesnt work I will try another method, if not just go on TRT despite being only 23.

I had bad headaches for the first week. After 2 weeks, I started feeling better and after 4, I was feeling very normal.
Age:29
5'11" 190 lbs
150mg Test-E/week

pvm21

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Re: clomid restart
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2013, 01:48:06 am »
Jackandy, what was your protocol? Dose and timetable. Are you still on it?

JackAndy

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Re: clomid restart
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2013, 04:33:33 pm »
I did 50mg ED for the first week and then 25MG ED for 3 weeks and 12.5MG ED for a week after that and then stopped. I'm not still on it. I went back to the shots.
Age:29
5'11" 190 lbs
150mg Test-E/week

charles642

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Re: clomid restart
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2013, 07:29:04 pm »
Okay so I have a couple of questions.

If a male with low T took clomid, will there testosterone always drop back down or is that only your case?

You are 23 with low T (Im 19 and also have low T), is there a specific reason why you have low T such as calorie restriction, depression, medication etc.?

When your T shot up to 1550, did you feel better or feel any different?

pvm21

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Re: clomid restart
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2013, 08:20:15 pm »
Charles642, it depends. I am now trying a lengthy, lower dose restart. I have read that for people in there twenties they have some shot at it working, but not always. But there is a chance. My low T seems to be from a few different angles.

1. I have used pro hormones on  3 occasions since I was 18. My doctor doesn't think thats the reason because he doesnt think that they should have long lasting damage unless I continuously abused them. But Im sure thats a factor. Oh also I have taken oxyelite pro 2 times for 4 weeks at a time in about a 15 month span. (8 weeks total).

2. Probably naturally was a little lower than most, judging by my personality, body type, energy levels etc.

3. I bet asthma medication use for about 8 years played some role. I am off all meds now though.

4. My depression is probably crushing my testosterone right now. But I think I have depression because of the low testosterone, as nothing in my life is wrong, in fact, I have a great life. My depression is extremely severe and has been for 7 months. Mind numbing, joy sucking depression. Hardest thing Ive ever been through.

5. From ages of about 20-22 I would eat low carb/low calorie diet during the week and basically binge eat on weekends. Im sure that had an affect. My diet is much better now. Lots of carbs, but only from things like quinoa, brown rice, fruits, veggies.

I will let you know if my restart works at all. First time I took clomid I actually felt worse, but my body didnt hurt as bad and my libido was better, but my head always hurt. Probably from too high a dose.


PeakT

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Re: clomid restart
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2013, 08:28:43 pm »
Okay so I have a couple of questions.

If a male with low T took clomid, will there testosterone always drop back down or is that only your case?

You are 23 with low T (Im 19 and also have low T), is there a specific reason why you have low T such as calorie restriction, depression, medication etc.?

When your T shot up to 1550, did you feel better or feel any different?

A couple of important comments:

--If you try Clomid, consider the low dosage.  Many docs start you out super high, but the lower dose you go, the less chance of side effects.  And some guys are very responsive like pvm and don't need that high of a dose.

--Clomid is infamous for not boosting libido.  My impression if that 2/3rds or 3/4ths of men on Clomid have little to no libido boost.  We've had many guys on the forum with testosterone of 700+ who have a low libido cuzz they're on Clomid.  Clomid is actally two medications and one of them is estrogenic and thus affects the male brain this way more often than not.  So the poor guy should have a raging libido but actually has no libido.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

pvm21

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Re: clomid restart
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2013, 08:46:03 pm »
Peak, arent they working on a Serm that doesnt have the estrogenic component? Androxal or something? I remember reading about it on here. When will that hit market?

dwilcox

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Re: clomid restart
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2013, 08:54:23 pm »

--If you try Clomid, consider the low dosage.  Many docs start you out super high, but the lower dose you go, the less chance of side effects.  And some guys are very responsive like pvm and don't need that high of a dose.


Peak's comment above is the most important statement from my experience with Clomid.  My T was close to 1200 on 12.5 mg of Clomid MWF.  While the 1200 of T is nice, the surge of Estrogen as a result is NOT.  You young guys may have an advantage of higher metabolic rates and can utilize more of the higher T, but you have to be careful of the conversion to Estrogen - which may be like termites for your Libido - "destroys wood".

Again, Dr. Crisler suggests 12.5mg EOD as a starting point, but I believe his audience is mainly us older gents trying to regain some youthful T.   I would be questioning my doc heavily to see if he's had other patients in your age group using Clomid at a similar dosage.   Also, one should be considering an AI (such as arimidex) along with the prescription of Clomid.

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: clomid restart
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2013, 08:54:23 pm »