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Author Topic: Women in the Workforce Affecting Men?  (Read 8235 times)

Anon123

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Women in the Workforce Affecting Men?
« on: June 05, 2012, 12:06:48 am »
[Moderator:  I split this out so as to not hijack the original thread.]

"Women, in ever growing numbers, are despising and abandoning their femaleness.  They thus cripple themselves for the fulfillment of their sublime vocation of mothering children to maturity.  Men, frightened by the blazing fury of the women's liberation movement, are surrendering male roles and positions to psychologically desexualized women.."

I think the current crisis is in large part because of gender confusion. Women have sought to become like men, and men, feeling helpless, have surrendered their place in the world.

Two interesting articles here:

David Willetts blames feminism over lack of jobs for working men
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/apr/01/david-willetts-feminism-lack-of-jobs

Unemployment fears grow for 'hopeless' UK male graduates
Report shows rate of unemployment in UK for young men leaving college far outstrips that for women
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/jul/04/unemployment-male-graduates

To anyone who questions any of this, I ask a simple question: Do you think there would be the same numbers of unemployed men if there were less women in the workplace?

My brother feels similar to me: he recognises that men have surrendered to women and women now, in all too many case, rule the roost. And being (often) feminists, they are crueler and less human than the average guy.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 02:03:49 am by Cataceous »

PeakT

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Re: Women in the Workforce 2
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2012, 02:43:53 pm »
Women are very affected by the xenoestrogens and obesogons and excitotoxins.  Even worse, they have to live with a bunch of crabby low testosterone males with erectile dysfunction.  I mean you talk about "Desperate Housewives!"

I agree with what you wrote about "maleness" and "manliness" being under a full frontal assault. 

And, personally, I like to see women in the workforce.  And, no, I don't mean in that way!  I know this is a controversial topic with some men, but looking at it from an economic standpoint, it's a huge asset.  Right now we're graduating about 58% women (here in the U.S.) and it's going to help get our economy back into shape.  This has been one of India and China's less well-known economic secrets and a number of articles have been written on it. 

Again, not trying to give anyone heartburn, but it's not me saying it.  Here's an interesting article in The Economist:

http://www.economist.com/node/6800723

"Girls get better grades at school than boys, and in most developed countries more women than men go to university. Women will thus be better equipped for the new jobs of the 21st century, in which brains count a lot more than brawn. In Britain far more women than men are now training to become doctors. And women are more likely to provide sound advice on investing their parents' nest egg: surveys show that women consistently achieve higher financial returns than men do.

Furthermore, the increase in female employment in the rich world has been the main driving force of growth in the past couple of decades. Those women have contributed more to global GDP growth than have either new technology or the new giants, China and India (see article)."
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Re: Women in the Workforce 2
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2012, 02:43:53 pm »


PeakT

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Re: Women in the Workforce Affecting Men?
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2012, 03:11:01 pm »
Derm:   

You're probably going to take me off your Christmas Card list, but my experience in IT is the opposite of what you are saying above.  In my building we have a bunch of programmers, system and database administrators and other techie types.  What is fascinating is in the aisle next to me are a couple of gringos, a guy from China, two guys from India and a man from Switzerland.

This is the norm in our building:  it's about 20% caucasian American and the rest is a pot pouri from all over the world.  It's mostly Asians, but there are a number of women, people from Europe and even a man from Africa.   My boss is from Mexico and my boss' boss is from a South American country.  The other guys on my team are from Israel and India.

Now my company is a global 500 corporation and they are in the same situation as every other major corporation:  they simply cannot get anywhere near enough American workers in technology, engineering and IT.  We simply do not graduate enough people to handle our needs and so companies go overseas.  It's not a conspiracy or a plot:  it's just the only way American corporations can find the workers they need.

Anyway, same thing with women:  American corporations desperately need those educated, intelligent female workers.  The fact is that women make better employees according to several studies.  Here is just one:

http://www.ecademy.com/node.php?id=176054

1.  They work more
2.  They work longer hours
3.  They work more during vacations
4.  They are more appreciative of bonuses.

Again, I don't see women in the workforce as taking jobs away from men.  I see our current situation in IT, engineering and technology as "all hands on deck - the ship is sinking!"

Imo that's one the great things about America - get the best and brightest into the right jobs and let them do their pointy-headed thing...

Feel free to disagree - I'm just letting you know what I see on my side of the world...
« Last Edit: June 05, 2012, 03:16:59 pm by PeakT »
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If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Anon123

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Re: Women in the Workforce Affecting Men?
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2012, 10:02:38 pm »
I would say that if women:

work more
work longer hours
work more during vacations
are more appreciative of bonuses

...than men, then the reason might simply be that they are trying hard to prove themselves. Men are more laid back, but if they want to compete with women, they are going to have to lift a finger.

I talked about this with a guy at work and he agreed, he said that women are more driven than men because they are out, on a desperate bid, to prove themselves as good as any man, and in so doing, they often prove themselves as bad as the worst of men, as Britain's 'ladette' culture shows - women can disgrace themselves just as well as any man: http://voices.yahoo.com/ladette-culture-creates-plague-disgusting-drunken-4709313.html
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 02:04:07 am by Cataceous »

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Re: Women in the Workforce Affecting Men?
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2012, 10:02:38 pm »


feelgood

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Re: Women in the Workforce Affecting Men?
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2012, 10:35:14 pm »
Thank God my wife is not seeing this thread.

wow.


Anon123

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Re: Women in the Workforce Affecting Men?
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2012, 12:36:46 am »
Thank God my wife is not seeing this thread.

wow.

Cos she'd go ballistic and you'd never hear the end of it! Kind-of proves my point.

I think I'm touching on an issue that many men feel very strongly about. I had a few chats on this issue with a guy at work, and he was convinced that women have got out of hand. We were talking about a particular staff member, a fat, late thirties girl who was a control freak.

Even though it's not 'politically correct' and you have to be careful about airing your opinions if you want to keep your job or have any hope of promotion, I think many men are traditionalists at heart and believe that a woman's place is in the home, nurturing the family and making things comfortable for her husband. I can imagine all the shock and horror at my saying it, but wasn't this the norm just several decades ago?
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 02:04:17 am by Cataceous »

Jonathan

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Re: Women in the Workforce Affecting Men?
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2012, 03:32:12 am »
I'm 46, and from 1990 to 1998 I was the director of a department that worked closely with our sales staff, which was staffed almost entirely by women ages 25-35.  I came to the conclusion that, when it comes to relationship sales, women have big advantages over men, (although not usually the case as direct sales closers.)  I believe that women of my generation were very energized by the women's liberation movement of the 1970s.  Many of them had older sisters, aunts, mothers and other role models who encouraged them to go for a career.

That this movement created options for women was outstanding--both for women themselves and the workplace in general. But during my time there I noted that many of my female coworkers began experiencing a profound awareness:  they didn't really want the big career as much as they thought they did.  They were wracked with guilt over leaving their children in daycare--not just for a few hours per day--but most of the day and often well into the evening, as really good jobs usually required pretty long hours.  They experienced significant problems in their marriages.  (During one year, something like two-thirds of our sales force was in the process of getting divorced.)

It wasn't that these ladies wanted to rescind the good things that came from women's liberation.  Again, it was right and good that they now had options.  And there were more than a few ladies I worked with who really did seem to do it all well:  big career, solid marriage, kids, etc.  But many others had to move through a lengthy period of confusion and frustration before finally admitting to themselves that the "big career" option was not necessarily right for them.  (At least for the long term.)  One of these ladies--the most ambitious driver of the bunch-- would tell me a few years later, at about 38 years of age,

Quote
"Jon, I'm ready for a man to start being the man."

She wanted to stay home with her child, decorate her home, do more things with her friends, travel, etc.  And, despite her former positions, at that point it just seemed natural to have a man in the traditional role, while she might work in a part time capacity.

I see this even among younger women today.  Yes, it's true that you'll find some masculinized females in the workplace, but in my experience over the last 20 years or so, it isn't the rule.  In the last several months I've been dating a lot of ladies (ages 30 to 45,) and almost to a person they tend to be looking for a relationship that is--perhaps not a throwback to Mad Men misogyny--but one in which the man takes the lead role.

Anyone else identify with this?

PeakT

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Re: Women in the Workforce Affecting Men?
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2012, 01:36:07 pm »
Well, yes, I agree that many women now, especially when the children are younger, want to stay at home.  But I'm not sure what you mean by "masculinized".  What I mean is that I have known many women who have stayed home for awhile with kids when they were younger because they felt it was the right thing to do but were bored out of their minds.  I don't mean they were bored all the time with their kids, but what I mean is that they were going stir crazy staying home with the kids all the time.

In these cases, the women waited until they felt it was appropriate and started back part or full time before they went back into the workforce.  This may not be what you intended, but I don't see a woman who wants to start a business - and I know a number of these - or women who want to be managers or excel in their fields as being masculinized.  Imo that's part of human nature and personality for many people be the women or men.

By the same token I know a number of men who, although they've never said it, would probably rather be at home with the kids.  They are very family-oriented, enjoyed doing stuff around the yard/house and don't really seem to be that much into careers.  These aren't "effeminate" guys by the way. Anyway, I don't think there's a formula that you can categorize everyone on a per gender basis.

I like all the choice and I really think that the great majority of people do too.  Think about this:  when I was in diapers, women really had two choices in careers:  nurse and teacher.  Actually three:  secretary.  Now fifty years later look at what has happened:  it's a tidal wave. 

Again, that's just my two cents.  I'm hoping I'm still on everyone's Christmas Card list??
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Anon123

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Re: Women in the Workforce Affecting Men?
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2012, 10:32:25 pm »
  Think about this:  when I was in diapers, women really had two choices in careers:  nurse and teacher.  Actually three:  secretary.  Now fifty years later look at what has happened:  it's a tidal wave. 

Again, that's just my two cents.  I'm hoping I'm still on everyone's Christmas Card list??
And is the world a happier place because of it? The wholesale entry of women into the workforce has a displacement cost: unemployed men. And the kiddies neglected because mummy is at work.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 02:04:24 am by Cataceous »

PeakT

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Re: Women in the Workforce Affecting Men?
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2012, 02:19:45 am »
The wholesale entry of women into the workforce has a displacement cost: unemployed men.

This part I (respectfully) disagree with.  Just had a guy come up to me at work and say that his boss has been interviewing for months for a senior Java developer and cannot find anyone.  If a man is out of work now, it's simply because his skills don't match market needs. 

That's nothing derogatory against any unemployed by the way - it could be me after all - but it's just a big shift in the economy that both younger and older workers have missed.  Science just isn't considered sexy any more and so many people have found themselves on the other side of an employment canyon.

And I really don't think it's right to fault any women who have had the foresight to go into the arts and sciences, because there are literally tens of thousands of foreign workers here w/ H1B's already working in IT/Tech/Sci/Engr.  Again, those jobs would have gone to American men if the men were anywhere near the right field.  There are many jobs out there - it's just a matter of having a market-matched skill set.

Here's just one of 100's of articles you can find about the difficult times that corporations are having in finding skilled workers:

http://www.geekwire.com/2012/h1b-season-begins-microsoft-renews-call-looser-restrictions-foreign-workers/
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 02:03:43 am by Cataceous »
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
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And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

spiderman

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Re: Women in the Workforce Affecting Men?
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2012, 05:30:16 am »
Guys am I missing somthing here...I was sure this was a T discussion forum...

You could always start a new forum for high testosterone in woman!

PeakT

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Re: Women in the Workforce Affecting Men?
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2012, 02:33:42 pm »
Guys am I missing somthing here...I was sure this was a T discussion forum...

You could always start a new forum for high testosterone in woman!

Lol.  Point well taken...
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

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Re: Women in the Workforce Affecting Men?
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2012, 02:33:42 pm »