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Author Topic: How do you deal with lifelong TRT  (Read 6751 times)

T-Power

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How do you deal with lifelong TRT
« on: February 05, 2014, 08:22:42 am »
I'm struggling to come to terms with this, which is why I haven't started my TRT.
Knowing that I'll be dependent on an external source of testosterone for probably the rest of my life, having to inject myself weekly.

Ok maybe that's the easy part to deal with but I don't like being dependent on an external source that can easily be taken away from me which in Australia is a real possibility when you take into account that there are so few knowledgeable doctors and a crazy government that equates testosterone use to that of being a murderer. What if there's a shortage? What about the less likely but still possible event of a worldwide revolution or catastrophe? We'll all be practically neutered.


PeakT

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Re: How do you deal with lifelong TRT
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2014, 01:50:35 pm »
I'm struggling to come to terms with this, which is why I haven't started my TRT.
Knowing that I'll be dependent on an external source of testosterone for probably the rest of my life, having to inject myself weekly.

Ok maybe that's the easy part to deal with but I don't like being dependent on an external source that can easily be taken away from me which in Australia is a real possibility when you take into account that there are so few knowledgeable doctors and a crazy government that equates testosterone use to that of being a murderer. What if there's a shortage? What about the less likely but still possible event of a worldwide revolution or catastrophe? We'll all be practically neutered.

Well, a couple of (hopefully) semi-comforting thoughts:

1.  As you know, recently I went off of HRT because of a high PSA read.  I was always in the 300's and, when I went off of HRT, I went down to 111 I think it was.  When I was at 111, it was starting to not be fun.  My anxiety started going up; sleep started getting terrible; libido was done; and my guess is that E.D. was knocking at the door.  Where am I headed?  Well, they told me at my clinic that usually in about 3 months a guy will normalize after that.

So, bascially, you would probably only be worse than you were before for about 3 months and then life would be just as it was before.  This means that you would get X years of (hopefully) benefit of HRT and then just three more miserable months as a trade.  Now imo that would be worth it and during those three months, you could pack up your belongings and move to a more hospitable country!   ;D

No, there's no guarantee that testosterone therapy will magically solve everything for you as you know.  Sometime dialing in estradiol can be tricky; sometimes there are weird side effects.  But I can say that, if done right, it can produce remarkable results for some men.

By the way, a much more likely scenario than terrorists attacks, government shut downs, etc. is what happened to me:  a high PSA read.  In my opinion, if you go on HRT, your #1 goal is to dial in estradiol correctly and your #2 goal is to protect your prostate.  I got scared straight when my T went down to 111, cuzz anti-androgen therapy would take me even a bit below that level! 
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 01:54:24 pm by PeakT »
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: How do you deal with lifelong TRT
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2014, 01:50:35 pm »


Kwn

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Re: How do you deal with lifelong TRT
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2014, 05:43:54 pm »
Peak,

When your sleep got terrible - do you think it is because of low T or low E?

PeakT

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Re: How do you deal with lifelong TRT
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2014, 06:01:48 pm »
Peak,

When your sleep got terrible - do you think it is because of low T or low E?

Well, good point.  They have found that it's really estradiol that does a lot of the stuff that they thought testosterone was responsible for in the brain.  So I don't know they answer to your question, but the two go hand in hand.  One reason that I think that testosterone has a lot to do with it is simply the fact that there are guys with low testosterone and normal estradiol who are still miserable.  But I don't know of any study that has looked at that specifically.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 07:08:14 pm by PeakT »
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: How do you deal with lifelong TRT
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2014, 06:01:48 pm »


tre

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Re: How do you deal with lifelong TRT
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2014, 07:06:37 pm »
I'm struggling to come to terms with this, which is why I haven't started my TRT.
Knowing that I'll be dependent on an external source of testosterone for probably the rest of my life, having to inject myself weekly.

Ok maybe that's the easy part to deal with but I don't like being dependent on an external source that can easily be taken away from me which in Australia is a real possibility when you take into account that there are so few knowledgeable doctors and a crazy government that equates testosterone use to that of being a murderer. What if there's a shortage? What about the less likely but still possible event of a worldwide revolution or catastrophe? We'll all be practically neutered.

I can relate 100%.  I, too, am worried about economic collapse and what that would mean.  I am on SEVERAL prescription meds that many would just take the rest of their lives.  In the event of collapse, they'd likely have to go cold turkey...pretty scary if you think about it.  So what to do?  I plan to ween myself off of ALL meds within the next year with the exception of Testosterone and Arimidex.  I think the only logical thing to do is to have some Clomid and perhaps HCG for emergency.  I am not sure how to get those as doctors will not prescribe "emergency Clomid"...lol.  Even if I didn't have them, I'd like crash down to the levels of a 60 year old (my natural levels) until I could get my hands on more...hopefully within a matter of months.  I am not sure what else to do except hope that availability will change within that period of time. 

As far as your situation in Australia...I'd move.  If you can figure out a way to work/live in another country with more sensible laws, that would obviously help your situation.  You are kind of isolated where you are now.  I don't know what you do for work right now, but if you taught in an International School in Thailand, you would never have to worry about getting what you need.  You could even stock up on that "emergency Clomid"...lol. 

davie12

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Re: How do you deal with lifelong TRT
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2014, 07:14:41 pm »
Anytime there is a dramatic sudden hormonal change (whether it's exogenous testosterone withdrawal or adrenal fatigue, etc), the body will readjust in many ways and have a whole list of symptoms, insomnia being one of them.
Recovering from adrenal fatigue through Paleo diet+exercise+vitamins/supplements; formerly used HCG & Clomid at various dosages

Sam

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Re: How do you deal with lifelong TRT
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2014, 08:42:16 pm »
So I had the same concerns and one of the reasons I came off of TRT and tried a restart with Clomid in order to re-evaluate the possible causes of my low T.   I have narrowed my situation down to what i believe is a hormone clearance issue related to low binding globulins but I am waiting on my last set of comprehensive Serum vs. urine tests to compare and evaluate this hypothesis.

I also have a stockpile of Clomid leftover from my clomid run so if I do go back on TRT I have this as a backup plan if a meteor ever struck the testosterone cypionate factory in Whoville ;D

My suggestion to you is to figure out how much money you can spend on testing to truly understand your situation and sacrifice other things in your life for one year to make that commitment to your health.  Get rid of cable, eating out, buy a cheaper car whatever it takes to do this the way you feel you should.  Once you have gotten to thepoint where you have done your due diligence making the decision to be on TRT for the rest of your life is no different than any other chronic condition requiring treatment.   I think the guilt you feel is probably a combination of wondering what the cause is and the societal pressures that say 1) Steroids are Bad 2) You not a real man if your taking medications.   You need to ignore the societal BS, focus on getting the answers you need to know if this is the best decision for your health, but in place an appropriate contingency plan (i.e. Clomid, Tamoxifen) and then stop worrying.

Regulus

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Re: How do you deal with lifelong TRT
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2014, 10:40:07 pm »
I had some similar concerns before starting TRT three years ago.  Couple of things to consider.

Genuine low-t affects more than just your libido and triathlon results.   It can cause anxiety, depression, fearfulness, and in general make a mess of how you look at things.  It can make it hard to concentrate and think things through.  My total T was 142, I had just about every bad symptom of low T you can have, and I still wasn't sure it was a good move because what if the supply gets cut off or what if the world blows up or I lose my health insurance and can't afford it or whatever.

That was the low-T talking.  But then I finally asked myself: if you are suffering from the effects of really low T, what's going to happen to you if you go on TRT and it gets taken away?  When it does you're going to suffer the effects of low-T. 

Here's the kicker:  within a couple weeks I stopped freaking out about everything and having panic attacks and worrying and second guessing everything.  I thought it was just my neurotic personality, because I was that way about everything for 20 years (it started about the same time I lost my ability to concentrate and stopped getting morning wood).  It wasn't.  It was my hormones.

Now, that's my own case.  I was really, really low, and it affected me badly.  In my case, I just didn't have that much to lose.  For me, the fact is, even if I am now completely shut down, I wasn't all that far from that before anyway.   

TRT has been a godsend for me.  But, that said, they totally overmarket this stuff, and try to sell it as the fountain of youth to guys who probably could solve their problems with a decent diet, some strength training and a little less booze.  I don't know if you need it or not.  If I could get myself where I need to be without exogenous sources, I'd definitely prefer that.   In my case, though, I was doing just about everything right (the strength training wasn't accomplishing much ...) and I was still a wreck.  So I had nothing really to lose
Late 40's, on TRT since 2011.
Test cyp 50 mg twice per week
Vegan and loving it since late 2015

T-Power

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Re: How do you deal with lifelong TRT
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2014, 12:46:16 am »
Thanks for all the well thought replies guys. I'll just quickly reply to a couple before I head out.

So I had the same concerns and one of the reasons I came off of TRT and tried a restart with Clomid in order to re-evaluate the possible causes of my low T.   I have narrowed my situation down to what i believe is a hormone clearance issue related to low binding globulins but I am waiting on my last set of comprehensive Serum vs. urine tests to compare and evaluate this hypothesis.

I also have a stockpile of Clomid leftover from my clomid run so if I do go back on TRT I have this as a backup plan if a meteor ever struck the testosterone cypionate factory in Whoville ;D

My suggestion to you is to figure out how much money you can spend on testing to truly understand your situation and sacrifice other things in your life for one year to make that commitment to your health.  Get rid of cable, eating out, buy a cheaper car whatever it takes to do this the way you feel you should.  Once you have gotten to thepoint where you have done your due diligence making the decision to be on TRT for the rest of your life is no different than any other chronic condition requiring treatment.   I think the guilt you feel is probably a combination of wondering what the cause is and the societal pressures that say 1) Steroids are Bad 2) You not a real man if your taking medications.   You need to ignore the societal BS, focus on getting the answers you need to know if this is the best decision for your health, but in place an appropriate contingency plan (i.e. Clomid, Tamoxifen) and then stop worrying.
Sam ideally I would do what you're suggesting. Soon I'll be away from home for a few months and when I come back I plan on studying. I honestly don't think I'd be able to manage either of these things in my current state. I've already managed to waste most of my 20's without accomplishing anything because of anxiety, passiveness, lack of motivation so I don't really want to waste anymore time.

The guilt is definitely because of not knowing what the cause is. I couldn't care less about the stigma behind using steroids and what people think. The other thing is breaking it to my family who think plain whey protein is the devil.

As far as a contingency plan, my current doc definitely wouldn't pull me off cold turkey but if for whatever reason he becomes unavailable I'll need to look for a reliable source to provide me with clomid. Or as tre suggested move to Thailand for a while at least (3 months like Peak said) to do a restart.

T-Power

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Re: How do you deal with lifelong TRT
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2014, 01:02:51 am »
I had some similar concerns before starting TRT three years ago.  Couple of things to consider.

Genuine low-t affects more than just your libido and triathlon results.   It can cause anxiety, depression, fearfulness, and in general make a mess of how you look at things.  It can make it hard to concentrate and think things through.  My total T was 142, I had just about every bad symptom of low T you can have, and I still wasn't sure it was a good move because what if the supply gets cut off or what if the world blows up or I lose my health insurance and can't afford it or whatever.

That was the low-T talking.  But then I finally asked myself: if you are suffering from the effects of really low T, what's going to happen to you if you go on TRT and it gets taken away?  When it does you're going to suffer the effects of low-T. 

Here's the kicker:  within a couple weeks I stopped freaking out about everything and having panic attacks and worrying and second guessing everything.  I thought it was just my neurotic personality, because I was that way about everything for 20 years (it started about the same time I lost my ability to concentrate and stopped getting morning wood).  It wasn't.  It was my hormones.

Now, that's my own case.  I was really, really low, and it affected me badly.  In my case, I just didn't have that much to lose.  For me, the fact is, even if I am now completely shut down, I wasn't all that far from that before anyway.   

TRT has been a godsend for me.  But, that said, they totally overmarket this stuff, and try to sell it as the fountain of youth to guys who probably could solve their problems with a decent diet, some strength training and a little less booze.  I don't know if you need it or not.  If I could get myself where I need to be without exogenous sources, I'd definitely prefer that.   In my case, though, I was doing just about everything right (the strength training wasn't accomplishing much ...) and I was still a wreck.  So I had nothing really to lose

That's exactly how I feel and what my symptoms are most of the time. Sure there are days where I feel a bit better and more confident but usually I'm as you said neurotic. I can put on a front for a while but deep down I'm always nervous, anxious. doubtful of myself. My levels haven't been as low as yours (250-350) so I can only imagine how it was for you.

I used to play sports, I've lost weight, strength train and eat well, don't drink or smoke and this hasn't helped much with my levels or how I feel, much like yourself.

About the over marketing of TRT, since I'm not in the US I haven't been exposed to that, here in Australia it's probably the last thing they'd put someone on but I have noticed on forums that people are quick to jump on or recommend it to people after only a couple of tests without finding out what the reason is behind it. That's why I like this site, people are actually trying to find out the underlying issues without being so gung-ho.

Thanks for making this your first post and welcome to the forum.

PeakT

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Re: How do you deal with lifelong TRT
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2014, 02:26:43 am »
Regulus:  I agree with you on the hype.  That's just America - the world's corporate flea market!

One thing not brought up:  being low T is more than just miserable:  its also dangerous.  Low T increases risk for diabetes, Mets, hardening of the arteries, depression, osteo and on and on.  So that is the flip side that docs do not account for often
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: How do you deal with lifelong TRT
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2014, 02:26:43 am »