Low Testosterone and low FSH & LH turned out to be hashimoto (getting better)

[m1active]

Hello everyone,

I just found about this forum a few weeks ago and I have been reading non stop. I got here after I have been searching the internet for some of my weird symptoms and I finally decided to test my testosterone level.

Thanks to everyone who will read through my post. I am a 26 year old guy and my sexual life is being totally fucked up in the last 4-5 years. I really hope that finally I will found a solution. I will be also sharing my experience with my doctors to document everything happening.

So I am a fairly healthy man, doing sports, running and fitness, generally I never had any health issues except for this one thing - I have had a severe ED for as long as I can remember. Now when I think about it, one of the logical questions would be - why didn't I do anything so long? Basically my doctor gave me Levitra and said that it is all in my mind. And after a few times I just really got used to the levitra and...time went by and here we are, 6 years later.

About a year ago I experienced some mild depression and anxiety symptoms. I was never the most happy guy in the world, but this really scared me. At first I thought it was the alcohol, so I stopped drinking (I used to drink quite a lot on weekends) which only made the anxiety and depression worse for a few weeks. Nevertheless, it all went by and I was feeling OK for a while, until recently, when I started having the same feelings again. I literally start thinking like - aw man, life has no meaning, why the fuck do I bother and so on. This goes on for 2-3 hours and then goes by, but I remain melancholic for a while. So I decided to google about the symptoms and ... lucky me, I got here.

I am currently looking at my testosterone readings - 12,69 nmol/l, which is about 373. Not that low, but still way below that I read is normal for 26 y.o. guy. Additionally, my test included some other hormones like FSH, where I got 1,11, which is below the reference of 1.5-12.4; and LH of 2.53 IU/l (1.7-8.6 ref. values). I mean, the general blood work is perfect. But this.

It looks bad. It looks really bad.  I am planning to go tomorrow morning and get a second reading of my testosterone and also get tested for Estradiol.

With the risk of starting another sentence with I, I have been thinking a lot about myself recently and two things are really bothering me. I used to be slightly overweight until 16 years. After that lost all the weight and started training. However, I was never good at gaining huge muscle mass. I am a big guy and I have bright shoulders, but I never managed to build huge mass. Right now, I weight about 102 kgs at 1,92 cm of height. I have a belly which seems to never go away, no matter what I try. My diet is mainly low-carb, I eat lots of fish and eggs and vegetables. Exercise all the time, although recently it has been hard, as I started feeling very tired during the day, which I would point to the testosterone level.

Sex life is a disaster. I have no morning erection also for a while now. It is present somehow If I wake at 6 am, but it is not really hard, I would say semi-hard. I have no real desire to have sex, although I have an awesome girlfriend. Right now I am taking cialis to keep it going, but I am 26 for fucks sake! This is really making me feel miserable. I am planning on going to my doctor in the next few days and speak about the testosterone levels. So, I will keep you posted. Until then, I am happy for any comments on my general condition.

I personally think that I have been always having low T, or at least after my late teens. I used to do drink a lot back then and shorty before I turned 24, so I am really scared if I did not fuck up my body in a way I can never fix it.

Thanks for reading. It really felt better.

Have a nice day/night!

Edit: I decided to summarise my symptoms and give a general overview of my health status for further reference:
Age: 26
Height: 1,92
Weight: 102
Existing medical conditions: none
Sex
Allergies: Tested last year and got a positive response for pollen, cats and birds.
Overall health condition: I would say very healthy. I am very active and I have been going to the gym since I was 15. Running, HiiT in the summer, snowboard in the winter. I used to be fat until 6th grade, when I lost 20 KGs from 102 to 82. After that started training and gained about 15 kgs of muscle mass. I easily bench press 115KG in my peak time and I could run 5km in 25 minutes.
Body type - muscular, I still have some fat on my belly area, which I have been (unsuccessfully trying to lose for a while), but I have very bright shoulders, v-shaped back. Size 34 jeans.
Smoking - no, used to smoke for 4 years
Drinking - except for occasional parties (1 a month) very, very little (1 drink/week)
Drugs - I have taken ecstasy, some cocaine and amphetamines (about 15 times altogether) when I was 18-20. Smoked pot occasionally, but completely drug free in the last 4-5 years.
Eating - I am a vivid cooker and I avoid fast food. Main diet is fish, vegetables, diary
Work environment - not stressful. I have a very cool job and nice colleagues
Other: I have never taken steroids or any supplements except for some creatine when I was 17 years old and some protein shakes.

Symptoms:
Persistent symptoms
 - ED since since since my first time. Back then I thought I was scared so I took a quarter of a levitra pill (5mg) and I had a crazy hard erection, I have had sex also without levitra. In the last 3-4 years I have been always taking a quarter of a  levitra pill before sex. A lot of it has to do with anxiety, I am sure about it, but now not anymore.
- lost my libido. I am not thinking about sex and i have no interest in sex in the last 1,5 - 2 years. It has always been low with me, but I just thought that I was different. I was never into chasing girls and most of the times I was not really interested in only sleeping with them. I am not gay though...I did think about it and I tried, but it was a disaster and I find men disgusting So, 100% heterosexual.
- I am not aroused when I think about sex. I could never get an erection just with thinking about sex
- Always had problems achieving orgasm. I could normally fuck for half an hour before coming.

Symptoms from the last 1 year
- I have occasional days where I feel very tired, unernergetic and generally depressed. The feeling is really weird - i just feel like I don't care, everything does not make sense and so on.
- lost my morning erection (which I get back if I don't masturbate for a week or so)
- no spontaneous erections

Symptoms in the last 3 months
- I have had the bad mood episodes more often (2-3 days a month)
- Some days I wake up with absolutely no energy in the morning and I have to go to bed very early in the afternoon, because I feel so tired.
- libido is virtually non-existing. I am literally forcing myself to have sex with my girlfriend on cialis.
 

[PeakT]

Well, I'm sure you don't feel lucky, but in at least one way you're lucky:  you found out about all this in your mid 20's.  I'm pretty sure I was low T my whole adult life and did not know about it until my late 40's!  By the way, my testosterone reads in my late 40's were very similar to yours and I had many classic low T symptoms.

To make a long story pretty short, I got my first morning erection when I went above about 600 ng/dl.  I did not have any E.D. until my late 40's.  My guess is that I was in the 400's and then some arterial issues caught up with me and it went downhill from there.  At 26, you should not have to worry about arterial issues yet, although some young men have high blood pressure, etc.!

You're doing the right thing by testing.  I recommend that you scan through the "PeakT Program" on my home page and familiarize yourself with some of the things that can cause guys problems.  In addition, you should imo get yourself checked for

a) varicocele
b) high prolactin
c) low Vitamin D.

All of these are quite common and can lower T and make E.D./libido even worse. 

My opinion:

Get those erections going.  Your penis needs to be oxygenated and you are not getting morning erections.  So you've got to figure out a way to do that.  Otherwise, you'll end with this:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/venous_leakage

And it's not fun!  I still have some of this but cypionate helped tremendously with this.

You may be able to go natural if you can lose some weight and have any of a, b or c above.  However, your problem seems pretty severe for a 26 year old, so my guess is you'll eventtually have to do:

HRT
HCG Mono
Clomid

Part of the answer depends on if you want to stay fertile.

Let us know what you think...

[m1active]

Hi PeakT,

thank your for your reply. I have been reading everything on the site in the last few days and it is really an amazing resource. Thanks for doing this and much, much respect!

I got some additional test results yesterday:
Prolactin 151.90   mIU/l, the lab gives this a reference for men: 86 - 324 - this one seems normal, right?
Estradiol 62.78   pmol/l, ref 28-156

and a second reading on my testosterone, which was at about 12,01 nmol/l.

Unfortunately, the lab here could not do a vitamin D test so I will search for another one and I will talk to my doctor about the variococele.

The only thing I worry is that I live in Germany, a country which is notorious for having conservative doctors. I mean, you cannot buy antibiotics without a prescription. I am pretty sure that the doc will look at the numbers and will tell me that being in the reference levels, everything is fine and he will laugh at me - 26 yo guy complaint about lack of sex drive. But at least I will try to get prepared as good as I can. On a good note, I am originally from another country where I fly all the time so I can always get second opinions from different doctors. 

I have some questions about some parts of your reply. When you said that you got your first morning erection at 600 ng/dl, do you mean that you did not have any morning wood before that? Like, also when you were young?

About the therapies - HRT, HCG, Clomid - when you start doing this, does it mean that you have to do it for life or is there a chance that your body will restore the natural production of testosterone? In general, I would like to stay fertile, but if this means not being able to have sex that I'd rather freeze some sperm now and take the risk of being fertile later. This is an awful thing to live with.

I will keep writing about my experience and document it.

What is the best action to take when talking to a doctor? I have to consult first with my GP in Germany. Should I just give him the symptoms and hand him over the test results or should I first see what he will say about the problem? I know that doctors can be quite sensitive when it comes to self-diagnosis, but on the other hand I really don't care about this - he is not the one who can't sleep with his girlfriend...

Thanks for reading and again, huge respect for building this website.

Best,

A.

[werdisback]

You can always buy clomid and try a restart cycle.  It might and might not work. Otherwise it's HRT. Your low testosterone can be from everything. Depression(that ruined my sex drive and made my erections pliable like rubber), stress(Can definitely lower stress), chronic partial/full sleep deprivation(ties into stress), nutritional deficiencies, even allergies can lower-t.

[Sam]

Shbg....   

Sam <---  broken record

[PeakT]

Hi PeakT,

thank your for your reply. I have been reading everything on the site in the last few days and it is really an amazing resource. Thanks for doing this and much, much respect!

I got some additional test results yesterday:
Prolactin 151.90   mIU/l, the lab gives this a reference for men: 86 - 324 - this one seems normal, right?
Estradiol 62.78   pmol/l, ref 28-156

and a second reading on my testosterone, which was at about 12,01 nmol/l.

Unfortunately, the lab here could not do a vitamin D test so I will search for another one and I will talk to my doctor about the variococele.

The only thing I worry is that I live in Germany, a country which is notorious for having conservative doctors. I mean, you cannot buy antibiotics without a prescription. I am pretty sure that the doc will look at the numbers and will tell me that being in the reference levels, everything is fine and he will laugh at me - 26 yo guy complaint about lack of sex drive. But at least I will try to get prepared as good as I can. On a good note, I am originally from another country where I fly all the time so I can always get second opinions from different doctors. 

I have some questions about some parts of your reply. When you said that you got your first morning erection at 600 ng/dl, do you mean that you did not have any morning wood before that? Like, also when you were young?

About the therapies - HRT, HCG, Clomid - when you start doing this, does it mean that you have to do it for life or is there a chance that your body will restore the natural production of testosterone? In general, I would like to stay fertile, but if this means not being able to have sex that I'd rather freeze some sperm now and take the risk of being fertile later. This is an awful thing to live with.

I will keep writing about my experience and document it.

What is the best action to take when talking to a doctor? I have to consult first with my GP in Germany. Should I just give him the symptoms and hand him over the test results or should I first see what he will say about the problem? I know that doctors can be quite sensitive when it comes to self-diagnosis, but on the other hand I really don't care about this - he is not the one who can't sleep with his girlfriend...

Thanks for reading and again, huge respect for building this website.

Best,

A.

Your estradiol is a little high compared to what most of the clinics control for based on what I have seen.  Make sure I did the conversion correctly, but I believe you are sitting in the lower 40's in American units and the docs here like to keep men between about 20 and 35, again from what I have seen.  Nothing terrible though and we have had some men that feel pretty good in the 40's.  Symptoms is worth a lot in this regard.

If you've got a few pounds to lose, you can probably bring that estradiol down nicely.

If you want fertility, your options are

1.  HCG Monotherapy (with possibly some HMG):  http://www.peaktestosterone.com/hcg_monotherapy

2. Clomid.  http://www.peaktestosterone.com/clomid_testosterone

Also, Sam is right:  it's always a good idea to get an SHBG read.  Low SHBG guys really struggle with HRT and it's a sign of medical conditions for example.

Clomid can occasionally give a guy a restart, but it's not common.  So, yes, all of these are more than likely permanent.

[m1active]

Thanks to everyone participating in this topic. I am finally back in Germany and I am preparing my visit to the doctor for next week and trying to get as much information as possible before that. I will update my symptoms in the first post for further reference for everyone looking at the topic. Have a great week.

- the symptoms have been updated. Have I missed anything?

[PeakT]

Thanks to everyone participating in this topic. I am finally back in Germany and I am preparing my visit to the doctor for next week and trying to get as much information as possible before that. I will update my symptoms in the first post for further reference for everyone looking at the topic. Have a great week.

Noted...

[m1active]

Hi everyone,

so, I did not disappear and I finally have some updates on my case. I got an appointment at my doctor in Germany and I explained everything, showed him my bloodwork results and he was very understanding. He put an initial diagnosis of Testosterone Deficiency based on the symptoms.

 Of course, he said that low testosterone does not mean anything, but he said that he wants to check my TSH values. Just got on the phone with them and it turns out that my value for TSH is 3,9 for a normal of 2,4 (i don't know what measurement).

So, we have set up a follow-up appointment for an Ultrasound of the Thyroid and I am also going to a Urologist for a regular check. I will keep you up to date.

All the best,

m1active

[m1active]

Hello everyone,

a short update from me. I have been diagnosed with Hashimoto after some additional blood tests (anti-TPO > 1300, with normal value of 60, TSH 2,855). According to my doctor a 100% sign that I have hashimotos. I have follow-up appointments with two other doctors to confirm, so I will keep you posted.

I am taking L-thyrox 75 mg as a starting dose.

So far I am not sure how this exactly corresponds to my testosterone values and I am reading myself into the information and books online. From what I have seen a lot of patients with Hashimoto have low testosterone values. I guess that my doctor will first wait 6-8 weeks before measuring hormone levels again.

Currently my symptoms are part of the typical symptom list for a hashimoto user:
- low libido
- low energy
- low motivation / depression

Thank god, the last two I get only on certain days, so it is not a constant problem. But it still sucks no to be able to do anything 1/2 days a week. And the problem with the missing libido is still awful.

As next steps I have eliminated gluten and milk products from my diet (essentially going Paleo, as this is one of the first thing you should do when you have hashimoto to eliminate the inflammation of the gut). So, It is a huge challenge. Let's see if it brings something. I am also checking if some of the sport activities have impact. So far I have noticed that when I do HIIT on the next day I am usually depressed and not motivated, but I have to confirm it yet. Fitness seems to work fine and I have a lot of energy and motivation after going to the gym, also on the next day.

I will keep updating the topic corresponding. I feel really bad for being diagnosed with a fucking chronic disease at 26, but at least now I have explanation for a lot of the stuff happening and I am not going crazy.

Have a nice week everyone!

[PeakT]

Hello everyone,

a short update from me. I have been diagnosed with Hashimoto after some additional blood tests (anti-TPO > 1300, with normal value of 60, TSH 2,855). According to my doctor a 100% sign that I have hashimotos. I have follow-up appointments with two other doctors to confirm, so I will keep you posted.

I am taking L-thyrox 75 mg as a starting dose.

So far I am not sure how this exactly corresponds to my testosterone values and I am reading myself into the information and books online. From what I have seen a lot of patients with Hashimoto have low testosterone values. I guess that my doctor will first wait 6-8 weeks before measuring hormone levels again.

Currently my symptoms are part of the typical symptom list for a hashimoto user:
- low libido
- low energy
- low motivation / depression

Thank god, the last two I get only on certain days, so it is not a constant problem. But it still sucks no to be able to do anything 1/2 days a week. And the problem with the missing libido is still awful.

As next steps I have eliminated gluten and milk products from my diet (essentially going Paleo, as this is one of the first thing you should do when you have hashimoto to eliminate the inflammation of the gut). So, It is a huge challenge. Let's see if it brings something. I am also checking if some of the sport activities have impact. So far I have noticed that when I do HIIT on the next day I am usually depressed and not motivated, but I have to confirm it yet. Fitness seems to work fine and I have a lot of energy and motivation after going to the gym, also on the next day.

I will keep updating the topic corresponding. I feel really bad for being diagnosed with a fucking chronic disease at 26, but at least now I have explanation for a lot of the stuff happening and I am not going crazy.

Have a nice week everyone!

Great.  You found an underlying issue so that is excellent.  Fixing hypothyroidism will often boost testosterone by about 30%.  But free testosterone can really increase potentially:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Testosterone_Thyroid  (See #3.)

Now you want to go after inflammation.  The Hashimoto's has some kind of a root cause, so keep after that.  Perhaps you want to try LDN first?  Just a thought...

Paleo to help your gut?  This is debatable depending on what you mean.  Lots of people on classic Paleo have gut and pooping problems.  You have to eat a LOT of veges and berries to overcome the ground level problems with "classic Paleo".  Throwing a bunch of fat and red meat - if that was your plan - into the gut is not going to help things and I can give you multiple reasons why.  I don't eat much dairy or wheat, so that makes sense to me.  Anyway, that's the subject of another thread I guess.

[relax.]

Hey, m1. I just signed up here and made my first thread. Maybe you can read it and see if there's any info there you can use. I am also 26, also with Hashimoto's. I've always known about my thyroid being messed up but I am just now finding out about my low T (415). Did your doc test your free T3 also? According to my endo, higher T3 levels are what improve your sense of well-being. Armour thyroid helps with this, but I've heard in some European countries this is hard to get a hold of. My endo and pharmacist have also told me that generic thyroid medication (levothyroxine, which I used to be on) are not as effective as name-brand (Synthroid) due to fluctuating potencies in each batch/bottle. It may be worth asking your GP to switch you.

And for what it's worth, I haven't noticed any change in my Low T symptoms, despite having my thyroid numbers on point. My antibodies keep going up though, so I'm going to be trying LDN soon to see what benefits I can get from that. This site has some good info on it and links with even more. Good luck to you.

[davie12]

I am currently looking at my testosterone readings - 12,69 nmol/l, which is about 373. Not that low, but still way below that I read is normal for 26 y.o. guy. Additionally, my test included some other hormones like FSH, where I got 1,11, which is below the reference of 1.5-12.4; and LH of 2.53 IU/l (1.7-8.6 ref. values). I mean, the general blood work is perfect. But this.

Smoking - no, used to smoke for 4 years
Drinking - except for occasional parties (1 a month) very, very little (1 drink/week)
Drugs - I have taken ecstasy, some cocaine and amphetamines (about 15 times altogether) when I was 18-20. Smoked pot occasionally, but completely drug free in the last 4-5 years.
Eating - I am a vivid cooker and I avoid fast food. Main diet is fish, vegetables, diary
Work environment - not stressful. I have a very cool job and nice colleagues
Other: I have never taken steroids or any supplements except for some creatine when I was 17 years old and some protein shakes.

If you took Ecstasy and Risperdal those are both damaging to the endocrine system especially before the age of 25 when it is not fully developed. Ecstasy is damaging specifically to the hypothalamus where GnRH (Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone) is created. Oftentimes, people with damage from club designer drugs can boost their testosterone with HCG...not Clomid, as Clomid acts on the hypothalamus. This is a well known fact. If you google Dr Dach, I believe he has written about it. Risperdal is a mess also. There are some class action lawsuits in the US. I even see TV commercials for law firms trying to represent victims of this drug. I can see from your very low LH and FSH that your system is downregulated. I'm not certain if the thyroid could be affected by those drugs however.

[m1active]

Now you want to go after inflammation.  The Hashimoto's has some kind of a root cause, so keep after that.  Perhaps you want to try LDN first?  Just a thought...

Paleo to help your gut?  This is debatable depending on what you mean.  Lots of people on classic Paleo have gut and pooping problems.  You have to eat a LOT of veges and berries to overcome the ground level problems with "classic Paleo".  Throwing a bunch of fat and red meat - if that was your plan - into the gut is not going to help things and I can give you multiple reasons why.  I don't eat much dairy or wheat, so that makes sense to me.  Anyway, that's the subject of another thread I guess.

As far as I understood gluten and milk products can be a main cause of inflammation to the gut. You fix the gut, you have very good chances of having fixed your hashimoto, at least that's what I read so far on the internet. It does not work for everyone, but some people claimed to have nice results, even going off meds. As I used to eat a lot of bread and milk, I decided to give it a go for a few months and see if it brings something.

I am also looking into LDN and the info I get online is kind of mixed up, but I am willing to try everything if there is no improvement with the classic l-thyroxin.

Hey, m1. I just signed up here and made my first thread. Maybe you can read it and see if there's any info there you can use. I am also 26, also with Hashimoto's. I've always known about my thyroid being messed up but I am just now finding out about my low T (415). Did your doc test your free T3 also? According to my endo, higher T3 levels are what improve your sense of well-being. Armour thyroid helps with this, but I've heard in some European countries this is hard to get a hold of. My endo and pharmacist have also told me that generic thyroid medication (levothyroxine, which I used to be on) are not as effective as name-brand (Synthroid) due to fluctuating potencies in each batch/bottle. It may be worth asking your GP to switch you.

And for what it's worth, I haven't noticed any change in my Low T symptoms, despite having my thyroid numbers on point. My antibodies keep going up though, so I'm going to be trying LDN soon to see what benefits I can get from that. This site has some good info on it and links with even more. Good luck to you.

Hi Relax, welcome to the forum. You are right, Armour is hard to get here in Europe, from what I understood from the German forums. Thank god I have a dual citizenship and I can always get every drug from my second home, a small eastern-european country by the name of Bulgaria From what I understood so far, the main difference between Armour (natural hormone) and L-thyroxin (synthetic) is that Armour has not only T4, but also T3 boosters, which is why it works better for certain people with low T3 values. I will wait for my first thyroid panel in the beginning of June and see how these values go. Here in germany we don't get generics for prescription drugs, so I am taking the Hexal L-thyroxin. Seems to work for some and not for others.

When you say that your thyroid numbers are up, do you mean TSH, T3 and T4? How come your antibodies are still high? They should also get to normal levels, correct? I will visit your topic.

I am currently looking at my testosterone readings - 12,69 nmol/l, which is about 373. Not that low, but still way below that I read is normal for 26 y.o. guy. Additionally, my test included some other hormones like FSH, where I got 1,11, which is below the reference of 1.5-12.4; and LH of 2.53 IU/l (1.7-8.6 ref. values). I mean, the general blood work is perfect. But this.

Smoking - no, used to smoke for 4 years
Drinking - except for occasional parties (1 a month) very, very little (1 drink/week)
Drugs - I have taken ecstasy, some cocaine and amphetamines (about 15 times altogether) when I was 18-20. Smoked pot occasionally, but completely drug free in the last 4-5 years.
Eating - I am a vivid cooker and I avoid fast food. Main diet is fish, vegetables, diary
Work environment - not stressful. I have a very cool job and nice colleagues
Other: I have never taken steroids or any supplements except for some creatine when I was 17 years old and some protein shakes.

If you took Ecstasy and Risperdal those are both damaging to the endocrine system especially before the age of 25 when it is not fully developed. Ecstasy is damaging specifically to the hypothalamus where GnRH (Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone) is created. Oftentimes, people with damage from club designer drugs can boost their testosterone with HCG...not Clomid, as Clomid acts on the hypothalamus. This is a well known fact. If you google Dr Dach, I believe he has written about it. Risperdal is a mess also. There are some class action lawsuits in the US. I even see TV commercials for law firms trying to represent victims of this drug. I can see from your very low LH and FSH that your system is downregulated. I'm not certain if the thyroid could be affected by those drugs however.

Thanks for this feedback! I did not know that. I have a hypothyroid function, so I am definitely down regulated. I hope that this is not the case, I mean my history of recreational drugs is pathetic . For my case it should be more genetic, as my mother and my grandmother (as I found out today) both have hashimoto. Although there is no direct evidence, people with hashimoto in the family have a higher pre-disposition.

As next steps I am doing a lot of research on dieting and food and also reading on the information from http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com. Seems to be a good archive for Thyroid patients. It seems that there are 2-3 alternatives to the classical medication, so I am looking into them, just to be prepared for the worst case in June.

Have a good evening, everyone (or day

[PeakT]

Well, I'm not fan of dairy.  But just quitting dairy is not really Paleo.  Anyway, let us know how it goes and if you feel better.