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Author Topic: Testosterone of 361 and 369 ng/dl is Fine?!?  (Read 15191 times)

seppuku

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Testosterone of 361 and 369 ng/dl is Fine?!?
« on: April 25, 2014, 04:45:31 pm »
Over the last year I've had several testosterone blood draws on the nhs. I actually asked first because I was curious and I thought it would be high (people at my work often accuse me of being on steroids). My results ranged from 9nmol/l to 16nmol/l, but average at about 12 (my last test this January was 12.8 nmol/l, which is 369 ng/dl in U.S figures). And that was after having taken clomid 12.5mg twice a week for a month, then stopping for three weeks before my blood draw.

Now the point of my post. I'm 42. I lift weights three times a week with my squats in the low 400's, deadlifts in the high 500's for multiple sets of three. Not amazing, but I hope you'll agree not bad. My father is 81. I've seen a deterioration in his general health and fitness over the last couple of years, as could be expected at his age. He says he feels very week etc. So I told him he should get his testosterone levels checked (he is already treated for his thyroid). Well he did, and he's just phoned me to tell me his doc says he's fine. His level was 12.5nmol/l (361ng/dl). So he's the same as me!!!!! What the hell is going on here?!!! The nhs will not offer treatment as I'm "in range". But there you go, same range as my 81 year old dad!!!! I have all I need in my garage (except hcg) to do it diy, and right now it's SO tempting.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 04:49:21 pm by PeakT »

PeakT

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Testosterone of 361 and 369 ng/dl is Fine?!?
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2014, 04:48:45 pm »
Over the last year I've had several testosterone blood draws on the nhs. I actually asked first because I was curious and I thought it would be high (people at my work often accuse me of being on steroids). My results ranged from 9nmol/l to 16nmol/l, but average at about 12 (my last test this January was 12.8 nmol/l, which is 369 ng/dl in U.S figures). And that was after having taken clomid 12.5mg twice a week for a month, then stopping for three weeks before my blood draw.

Now the point of my post. I'm 42. I lift weights three times a week with my squats in the low 400's, deadlifts in the high 500's for multiple sets of three. Not amazing, but I hope you'll agree not bad. My father is 81. I've seen a deterioration in his general health and fitness over the last couple of years, as could be expected at his age. He says he feels very week etc. So I told him he should get his testosterone levels checked (he is already treated for his thyroid). Well he did, and he's just phoned me to tell me his doc says he's fine. His level was 12.5nmol/l (361ng/dl). So he's the same as me!!!!! What the hell is going on here?!!! The nhs will not offer treatment as I'm "in range". But there you go, same range as my 81 year old dad!!!! I have all I need in my garage (except hcg) to do it diy, and right now it's SO tempting.

Well, of course, that's not necessarily fine and my testosterone was very similar and I can tell you that going on HRT - with a good protocol was a life-changing event for me.  I am a completely new person.

As I keep saying, this is not an NHS/UK problem but a worldwide endocrinology problem.  95% of endos despise HRT.  I don't know why - it simply makes no sense - especially since they are endos!

So it is very frustrating and it is interesting because we would still be in the dark ages if it wasn't for the a) steroid guys and b) Big Pharma topicals like Androgel and Testim that pushed this into the offices of the PCPs and urologists (who then bypassed the endos).

We have some posts about how to influence the NHS toward a more reasonable approach?  Have you seen those threads?
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 04:55:18 pm by PeakT »
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

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Testosterone of 361 and 369 ng/dl is Fine?!?
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2014, 04:48:45 pm »


PeakT

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Re: Testosterone of 361 and 369 ng/dl is Fine?!?
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2014, 04:54:54 pm »
Oh, and you are friggin right those are impressive dead lift and squatting numbers.  Those weights would squash me like a bug!  Kudos...
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

seppuku

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Re: Testosterone of 361 and 369 ng/dl is Fine?!?
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2014, 05:08:17 pm »
Well thank you for the compliment Peak, I need all the cheering up I can get! I just can't get over the fact my dad, who at 81 is twice my age, has the same level!!
As to the nhs. I probably didn't help things playing with clomid before a couple of my tests (even though I'd come off several weeks before). And also, I don't think I'd want the nhs version of trt anyhow to be honest! I'd want sub q every 3.5 days plus hcg. That aint gonna happen on the nhs!!! What they would give though is the  lood tests and of course pharma grade meds not bought off the web.

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Re: Testosterone of 361 and 369 ng/dl is Fine?!?
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2014, 05:08:17 pm »


PeakT

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Re: Testosterone of 361 and 369 ng/dl is Fine?!?
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2014, 09:20:55 pm »
Well thank you for the compliment Peak, I need all the cheering up I can get! I just can't get over the fact my dad, who at 81 is twice my age, has the same level!!
As to the nhs. I probably didn't help things playing with clomid before a couple of my tests (even though I'd come off several weeks before). And also, I don't think I'd want the nhs version of trt anyhow to be honest! I'd want sub q every 3.5 days plus hcg. That aint gonna happen on the nhs!!! What they would give though is the  lood tests and of course pharma grade meds not bought off the web.

So can you get subQ in the UK if you go private?  Very few guys go private overe there right?
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

seppuku

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Re: Testosterone of 361 and 369 ng/dl is Fine?!?
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2014, 09:53:50 pm »
Unfortunately,  I'm not in a good enough financial position to go private. Just been looking at toremifene, may be another option to clomid?

PeakT

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Re: Testosterone of 361 and 369 ng/dl is Fine?!?
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2014, 12:30:02 am »
Unfortunately,  I'm not in a good enough financial position to go private. Just been looking at toremifene, may be another option to clomid?

None of the guys have used it.  Btw, cypionate is dirt cheap over here in the U.S.  Do you realize that I can buy a 4+ month supply for $107?!?  The key is to find a doc that won't rape and pillage...
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

SumTingWong

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Re: Testosterone of 361 and 369 ng/dl is Fine?!?
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2014, 01:00:27 am »
I am in the UK and went through the same as what you are going through. It took me a long time to be put on testosterone replacement. They just look at the normal NHS lab range which is between 8 and 30 NMOL/L, and if you fit in there then they'll say you are fit and healthy. What they don't realise is that the 8 to 30 range includes everything from healthy 20 year olds to 100 year olds who are drawing their last breath. In my experience, they weren't trying to be difficult, there really is just a lack of knowledge about this area among many docs in the NHS.

The good news is that there are some NHS docs who are well versed in this topic and WILL help you. It just takes a little time to find them!

Who was it that said you were in the normal range? An endocrinologist or your GP?

If you haven't already been referred to an endo, politely insist that you are. If you have to change GP, then do so.
If you have already seen an endo then ask for a second opinion.

You'll get there eventually.
I am not medically trained or qualified. This is not medical advice.

PeakT

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Re: Testosterone of 361 and 369 ng/dl is Fine?!?
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2014, 03:21:47 am »
I am in the UK and went through the same as what you are going through. It took me a long time to be put on testosterone replacement. They just look at the normal NHS lab range which is between 8 and 30 NMOL/L, and if you fit in there then they'll say you are fit and healthy. What they don't realise is that the 8 to 30 range includes everything from healthy 20 year olds to 100 year olds who are drawing their last breath. In my experience, they weren't trying to be difficult, there really is just a lack of knowledge about this area among many docs in the NHS.

The good news is that there are some NHS docs who are well versed in this topic and WILL help you. It just takes a little time to find them!

Who was it that said you were in the normal range? An endocrinologist or your GP?

If you haven't already been referred to an endo, politely insist that you are. If you have to change GP, then do so.
If you have already seen an endo then ask for a second opinion.

You'll get there eventually.

Do you have any tips for how to find a good UK doc that is open to treating men for low testosterone?
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

seppuku

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Re: Testosterone of 361 and 369 ng/dl is Fine?!?
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2014, 08:14:25 am »
"Who was it that said you were in the normal range? An endocrinologist or your GP?"

Actually both. My first test came back I think about 11.8, so I got a retest a month later. During that month I took d-aspartic acid. My next test came back just over 9, so I don't put much faith in d-aspartic acid! I asked to see an endo, which my gp did, along with a load of tests I asked for (vit d, lh, shbg etc - wouldn't do estrogen though). So I saw the endo, he took more blood,  but also went over my results from the latest draw. And said I'm fine (total test was I tbink 12.8). I tried to play the game, you know, laid it on thick about week erections, fatigue etc. Last contact from him was a letter suggesting I go to the sexual dysfunction clinic!!!! I'm afraid in the uk endos are still probably using leaches as treatment. Funnily my one gp seemed interested at least, reading through studies I took in etc. But tge last word goes to the endo. Nice job, just reading range charts, think I'll retrain and become an endo!!

PeakT

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Re: Testosterone of 361 and 369 ng/dl is Fine?!?
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2014, 08:20:32 am »
Testosterone supplements don't do much and they are particularly ineffective on hypogonadal guys.

The gp was probably int'd cuzz he was having low T symptoms.  This is when docs often get int'd in the subject.  Until they are suffering, they could care less quite often.

Ironic that they don't want to test for estradiol, since it is just as important!  Yin and yang as the say...
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

seppuku

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Re: Testosterone of 361 and 369 ng/dl is Fine?!?
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2014, 08:56:02 am »
Damn! Just wrote a long reply, and it dissappeared! Probably my rubbish phone. Anyway, basically it said that the only two gp's that were interested were actually women. The male one I saw couldn't wait to get me out the room!!

PeakT

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Re: Testosterone of 361 and 369 ng/dl is Fine?!?
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2014, 10:27:38 am »
Damn! Just wrote a long reply, and it dissappeared! Probably my rubbish phone. Anyway, basically it said that the only two gp's that were interested were actually women. The male one I saw couldn't wait to get me out the room!!

Lack of empathy is an ugly thing...
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

seppuku

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Re: Testosterone of 361 and 369 ng/dl is Fine?!?
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2014, 11:53:47 am »
He probably had low testosterone ;-)

SumTingWong

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Re: Testosterone of 361 and 369 ng/dl is Fine?!?
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2014, 02:35:33 pm »
[REMOVED AT REQUEST OF OP]
« Last Edit: May 20, 2014, 07:29:28 pm by PeakT »
I am not medically trained or qualified. This is not medical advice.

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Re: Testosterone of 361 and 369 ng/dl is Fine?!?
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2014, 02:35:33 pm »