Testosterone from 200's to 500's and Back to 200's

[Hype]

First off I would like to say how awesome this forum is, definitely picked up a lot of information here. Anyway onto my story...

So back in July last year i spent a 12 weeks period eating at a calorie deficit preparing for my first bodybuilding show (NATURAL - NO TEST OR AAS). Everything went well, got down to about 5-6% bf. I kept my fat intake fairly high out of fear of lowering my testosterone too low. Post-comp however, my body never seemed to recover. I had no libido, no energy, and gained a lot of body fat despite reverse dietting. Fast forward 2 months of eating a high calorie diet I went to my doctor requesting blood work under the suspicion i had low testosterone. The doctor only tested testosterone, i assume he thought i was crazy being 19 complaining of low testosterone. But my results came back in the low 200s.

I then went to another doctor for a follow up and to get another opinion. He tested most things, LH, FSH, Prolactin, Liver function, HDL, LDL, everything came back fine. Apart from testosterone... this time however it was up to the high 200s. He then sent me for a testicular ultrasound. This showed nothing.

I then got referred through to an endocrinologist where i had to wait a few months to see them. I was given more blood tests this time she added, IGF-1, TSH, free T4, a cortisol suppression test, again everything was normal. She even sent me for an MRI which showed nothing abnormal. The good news this time however was my testosterone level had gone up to 550. She concluded that my body shutdown during my bodybuilding preparation and i was one of the unfortunate who took a long time to recover. Most of my friend who i competed with all felt back to there normal selves within a month so i wasnt really left feeling happy with her answer. However she said we will redo the test in 3 months and she assured me my levels should be higher again.

Fast forward to now (3 months after seeing the endo) I went and got my follow up blood work through my doctor. Levels have dropped again to 250 with again everything else looking normal, LH normal, Prolactin normal. I have an appointment with my regular doctor again tomorrow to discuss these results and i assume he will send me back to the endo, however I was wondering if anyone on this forum could give me any insight on what i should be requesting to get tested. I asked for oestrogen to be tested but my regular doctor dismissed this saying it shouldn't be a problem.

I am feeling very frustrated thus far as it was been a 9 month period of this. I still continue to eat an extremely healthy diet and exercise regularly. I am beginning to conclude TRT may be an option however any insight would be appreciated. Cheers

p.s. I will obtain a copy off all of my previous blood tests to post all the results on here to further help with any responses.

THANKS FOR READING

[PeakT]

Hey, ,one quick q for you:

Are you sure you were getting enough calories during those times of testosterone = 250?  Testosterone can fall like a rock during calorie reduction.

There is one other thing that could cause it:  zinc issues.  I doubt that's it, but I mention it:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Zinc_Deficiency_Low_Testosterone

[Hype]

Well i just got a reading of 250 while eating 3500 calories, of which 90g fats (45g sat, rest mono)

[gimmeabreak]

Just wondering if all your bloods were taken first thing in the morning?

[PeakT]

Well i just got a reading of 250 while eating 3500 calories, of which 90g fats (45g sat, rest mono)

Wow!  Well part of it is explained probably by both calories and fat depending on when you ate as some research shows will lower testosterone post-meal:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Testosterone_Meal

Both high glycemic and high fat meals can in certain cases lower T.  Again, I doubt that explains testosterone of 250, but it may explain why your testosterone fluctuates partially at times.

[Hype]

All my tests were in the morning in fasted states.

All my calories carb sources are Low GI, Oats, sweet potatoe, brown rice. Fat sources include, coconut oil, pb, almonds, fish oil. I eat 6-7 meals a day and consume these sources all in moderate amounts across each meal.

[PeakT]

All my tests were in the morning in fasted states.

All my calories carb sources are Low GI, Oats, sweet potatoe, brown rice. Fat sources include, coconut oil, pb, almonds, fish oil. I eat 6-7 meals a day and consume these sources all in moderate amounts across each meal.
[/quote

Noted.  Well, just trying to figure out what might cause the variability.  Now one interesting thing is that the urologists recently did a study showing big variability in lab readings.  Apparently, there are some significant issues there...

[Hype]

My main concern really isnt why there are fluctuations. Because my diet has remained steady throughout. It is more so attempting to find the underlying problem. I am only 19 and do not see why my levels are so low. If it was truly a nutritionally based problem (as suggested by the endo) from eating at a deficit, surely eating at surplus for the past 6+ months should see me fully recovered.

Do you have any recommendations on what tests I should request?

[gimmeabreak]

I have a question. Did you ever have your testosterone levels measured before you got into competing? You may be in the low/normal range to begin with. I compete myself, and have a pretty great physique. So I can attest that you can still build a pretty good physique even in the low normal range.

[Hype]

I have a question. Did you ever have your testosterone levels measured before you got into competing? You may be in the low/normal range to begin with. I compete myself, and have a pretty great physique. So I can attest that you can still build a pretty good physique even in the low normal range.

No but i wish i did. It never really occurred to me to. I do agree with your point, I may have been on the lower end to begin with. But what troubles me is before competing I used to gain muscle and strength a lot easier than now. Also the lack of libido worries me. Prior to competing i used to have a high libido and would get occasional erections throughout the day. Now i rarely wake up with morning erections and have little to no sexual desire.

[PeakT]

My main concern really isnt why there are fluctuations. Because my diet has remained steady throughout. It is more so attempting to find the underlying problem. I am only 19 and do not see why my levels are so low. If it was truly a nutritionally based problem (as suggested by the endo) from eating at a deficit, surely eating at surplus for the past 6+ months should see me fully recovered.

Do you have any recommendations on what tests I should request?

Okay, well the reason I focused in on the variability is because  it does make a difference whether you are at a baseline of 550 or 250 of course.  Almost all guys will really struggle at 250, where as 550, you can probably survive.  You're right:  both values are low for your age and so even 550 is not ideal.

Now I was almost for sure in the 300's my entire adult life and still had a child, no E.D. and a strong libido all the way until my late 40's.  And I get guys on here fairly often in the 400's with no classic low T symptoms.  So testosterone is really variable.

But, again, where I was headed is that, if you can figure out what is (if anything) dropping you from 550 to 250, you'll avoid all the time, expense and occasional side effects of HRT.  And, unfortunately, in Australia, I don't think they run very good HRT programs, right?  Do they do weekly injections for example?  And let's say you want to preserve fertility at 19:  can you even get Clomid or HCG Mono in Australia?  I'm asking, because we've heard a few horror stories on here.  Examples:

https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=525.0

https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=3264.0

So I wasn't trying to annoy:  it's just that you'll be far better off if you can get your baseline up to the 550.  Now you may not be able to.  That may have been a bad read.  Your baseline might be in the 200's - who knows?

And the flip side is that if your baseline testosterone is now in the 200's, then it's potentially dangerous long term.  PM me and I'll send you my book for free that talks about that.  It increases your risk for osteoporosis, anemia, depression, prediabetes, diabetes, hardening of the arteries, etc.

Let me know what you think...

Oh, and here are some add'l tests you can run:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/testosterone_tests

[Hype]

Thanks for your reply mate, Yeah i've heard a lot of stories about HRT being very hard to get here. Most of the doctors don't seem to be competent in the field. I remember the first doctor i saw when i had the original low reading suggested IM injections straight away (quick fix).Obviously I did not want to take that route.

I will be seeing my regular doctor today however and am certain he will send me back to the endo. Hopefully the endo will be more open to trying clomid or HCG, just to see how i react.

But i think you may be right in saying my base levels are around 550, because I did feel a lot more like my old self around that time (minus low libido). Im beginning to think I might have been very close to achieving my original levels prior to competition. My thoughts are I should be around 600s to get my libido back.

[bzarfas]

Well i just got a reading of 250 while eating 3500 calories, of which 90g fats (45g sat, rest mono)

what was your bodyfat at that time?
getting to "about 5-6% bf." and  your body is going to think it's starving,and shut  thing down,  increase some calories/bodyfat,  or get on trt, and you'll be fine

[Hype]

Well i just got a reading of 250 while eating 3500 calories, of which 90g fats (45g sat, rest mono)

what was your bodyfat at that time?
getting to "about 5-6% bf." and  your body is going to think it's starving,and shut  thing down,  increase some calories/bodyfat,  or get on trt, and you'll be fine

Yeah it did shutdown, that is why i have been reverse dietting since my post comp reading of 200 (was on a low calorie diet)
I increased calories progressively to 3500 a day and got the reading off 550. (good news)
Without no change in diet, still eating a calorie surplus, my reading has dropped to 250
I am questioning the diagnosis of diet being the issue, why would it crash again? I am still eating 3500 cals a day from all whole food sources.

[bzarfas]

Well i just got a reading of 250 while eating 3500 calories, of which 90g fats (45g sat, rest mono)

what was your bodyfat at that time?
getting to "about 5-6% bf." and  your body is going to think it's starving,and shut  thing down,  increase some calories/bodyfat,  or get on trt, and you'll be fine

Yeah it did shutdown, that is why i have been reverse dietting since my post comp reading of 200 (was on a low calorie diet)
I increased calories progressively to 3500 a day and got the reading off 550. (good news)
Without no change in diet, still eating a calorie surplus, my reading has dropped to 250
I am questioning the diagnosis of diet being the issue, why would it crash again? I am still eating 3500 cals a day from all whole food sources.

diet wasnt the issue, the issue was bodyfat percentage.  (which is why I asked about the testosterone readings and their relation to your bodyfat level.
and  on top of that, you have all the variables about the actual Testosterone test.)

full fat cells make hormone leptin......lyle mcdonald explains it very well:
A single example should help to make my point. In natural (read: nondrug using) individuals who have dieted down to extremely low bodyfat levels, say 5%, you see acommon hormonal pattern. Testosterone levels are typically bottomed out (some studies even find castrate levels, which is why a lot of natural contest bodybuilders can't get their dick hard, not that they have a sex drive in the first place), thyroid levels are bottomed out, IGF-1 levels are bottomed out, sympathetic nervous system output is way down meaning decreased caloric and fat burning, appetite is through the roof, cortisol is through the roof, on and on it goes. This makes good evolutionary sense: at 5% bodyfat, you are starving to death. Your body is turning off every system (metabolic, reproductive, immune, etc.) that it can to keep you alive until you get some food.
Contrast that to a dieting professional bodybuilder. With the choice of the right drugs, he can eliminate pretty much all of the above problems. Anabolic steroids replace natural testosterone, synthetic thyroid replaces what the body is no longer making, injectable insulin, GH, and IGF-1 fix the insulin, GH and IGF-1 problem, clenbuterol replaces sympathetic nervous system output, appetite suppressants can deal with appetite and anti-cortisol drugs deal with
the cortisol problem. That's only a partial drug list, by the way.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/ultimate-diet-20