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Author Topic: CT Heart Scan Radiation appears to be on a reasonable level  (Read 6468 times)

Tfan

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According to Harvard on a 2012 issue, Calcium scoring for your coronary arteries deliver about 1-2 mSv and you should be concerned about not accumulating more than 100  over a lifetime. As a matter of comparison, this is equivalent to 20-40 chest x-rays, which deliver about 0.05 mSv. So, it is quite a bit.

Catch is - if you are young you should be worried about this exam as a screening exam because you dont want to accumulate lots of radiation early in life so that you dont reach later stages in life close to the limit they think you would be at a high risk. You would also be a bit worried if for some reason you did accumulate lots of radiation through life.

But you d always weigh risk on this.

If you are mid age or older, and havent accumulate a lot, I conclude from the article that this is a no brainer.

http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletters/Harvard_Heart_Letter/2012/July/radiation-from-ct-other-cardiac-tests-can-be-a-problem

Davis in Track your Plaque doesnt even bother with it.

I am off to get my score.

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PeakT

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Re: CT Heart Scan Radiation appears to be on a reasonable level
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2014, 07:09:39 pm »
Let us know how it goes.

My PCP just told me that he doesn't use Calcium Scores because supposedly it takes 10 years to build up the calcification.  In other words, you can have pretty significant plaque that hasn't calcified per him for years before.

I want to check on that a bit more, but just passing along info...
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If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

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Re: CT Heart Scan Radiation appears to be on a reasonable level
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2014, 07:09:39 pm »


Tfan

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Re: CT Heart Scan Radiation appears to be on a reasonable level
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2014, 11:47:09 pm »
Let us know how it goes.

My PCP just told me that he doesn't use Calcium Scores because supposedly it takes 10 years to build up the calcification.  In other words, you can have pretty significant plaque that hasn't calcified per him for years before.

I want to check on that a bit more, but just passing along info...

Sorry to ask but what is PCP?
Well well I was pretty convinced by Davis arguments that you clear the risk for disease with the freaking score... If he does not use calcium score, what does he use instead? Can he tell for sure if there is endothelium disease without the invasive measurements?

How s heart MRI doing? Did we get any better at this? 6 years ago I was investigating this and MRI was still crawling its way into the cardiology realm.

Confused now peak.

Lets dig.

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PeakT

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Re: CT Heart Scan Radiation appears to be on a reasonable level
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2014, 04:21:53 am »
Let us know how it goes.

My PCP just told me that he doesn't use Calcium Scores because supposedly it takes 10 years to build up the calcification.  In other words, you can have pretty significant plaque that hasn't calcified per him for years before.

I want to check on that a bit more, but just passing along info...

Sorry to ask but what is PCP?
Well well I was pretty convinced by Davis arguments that you clear the risk for disease with the freaking score... If he does not use calcium score, what does he use instead? Can he tell for sure if there is endothelium disease without the invasive measurements?

How s heart MRI doing? Did we get any better at this? 6 years ago I was investigating this and MRI was still crawling its way into the cardiology realm.

Confused now peak.

Lets dig.

Well, the Calcium Score is still good.  If you have calcium, you have problems.  I highly encourage you to read the book.  It's packed with stats as to how the disease normally progresses if you do have calcium.  My point was that you could potentially have a low calcium score but some "soft" plaque per my PCP before all of that happens.  (PCP = Primary Care Physician)
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
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And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

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Re: CT Heart Scan Radiation appears to be on a reasonable level
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2014, 04:21:53 am »


Tfan

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Re: CT Heart Scan Radiation appears to be on a reasonable level
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2014, 12:38:18 pm »
Let us know how it goes.

My PCP just told me that he doesn't use Calcium Scores because supposedly it takes 10 years to build up the calcification.  In other words, you can have pretty significant plaque that hasn't calcified per him for years before.

I want to check on that a bit more, but just passing along info...

Sorry to ask but what is PCP?
Well well I was pretty convinced by Davis arguments that you clear the risk for disease with the freaking score... If he does not use calcium score, what does he use instead? Can he tell for sure if there is endothelium disease without the invasive measurements?

How s heart MRI doing? Did we get any better at this? 6 years ago I was investigating this and MRI was still crawling its way into the cardiology realm.

Confused now peak.

Lets dig.

Well, the Calcium Score is still good.  If you have calcium, you have problems.  I highly encourage you to read the book.  It's packed with stats as to how the disease normally progresses if you do have calcium.  My point was that you could potentially have a low calcium score but some "soft" plaque per my PCP before all of that happens.  (PCP = Primary Care Physician)

I read the book and am very convinced. Will see my cardiology in a couple of weeks. He never asked me for the score, though he s been treating my bp for years now... lets see what he says.

I wonder what your PCP would recommend instead.
Am digging MRI stuff.

Age 48
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PeakT

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Re: CT Heart Scan Radiation appears to be on a reasonable level
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2014, 07:31:26 pm »


I read the book and am very convinced. Will see my cardiology in a couple of weeks. He never asked me for the score, though he s been treating my bp for years now... lets see what he says.

I wonder what your PCP would recommend instead.
Am digging MRI stuff.

Will be going actually to a PCP that just loves this stuff.  So I actually had a PCP referring to another PCP for cardiovascular/endothelial issues.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Tfan

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Re: CT Heart Scan Radiation appears to be on a reasonable level
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2014, 12:11:23 am »

Please let us know what he has to say!!!
I read the book and am very convinced. Will see my cardiology in a couple of weeks. He never asked me for the score, though he s been treating my bp for years now... lets see what he says.

I wonder what your PCP would recommend instead.
Am digging MRI stuff.

Will be going actually to a PCP that just loves this stuff.  So I actually had a PCP referring to another PCP for cardiovascular/endothelial issues.
Age 48
Tribullus

golfboy307

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Re: CT Heart Scan Radiation appears to be on a reasonable level
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2014, 02:29:36 pm »
Guys,

I am about 100 pages into Davis, Track your Plaque.  He really gets right to crux of the matter in terms of prevention v. treating the problem when it manifests as a heart attack.  I had this test done when I was 36, right about when this book came out since I have family history on my dads side.  At that time I had a zero score.  It is definitely motivating me to look into a follow up test.  I would want to find a cardio in my area that actually believes in this protocol or testing and prevention, not just through you on statins and hope.

My question:  this book came out ten years ago.  What has transpired since regarding calcium scoring and other tests?  There is a ton of possible preventative measures on this website.  He only skims the surface of these in his book.
Age 51, 5'10, 155 lbs
Cholesterol 162 (HDL 59, LDL 87, Trigs 88, LDL-P 850)
Fasting Glucose 65 (down from 97 pre TRT)
A1C:  5.0 (down from 5.7 per TRT)
Homocysteine:  12.4 > 11.0 > 10.2 > 8.9 using B vitamin therapy.  MTHFR positive 

BP  120/78 (using improved diet and 10 mg Lisinopril ACE Inhibitor)  145/90 prior to meds.

Current protocol:  60 mg Test Cyp IM every 5 days.  No AI.
2/15/17 labs:  Total T (peak day): 1169 (250 - 1100 ng/dl).  Free T 198 pg/ML (46-225).  Sensitive E2: 40 High.  Previously 32. PSA 0.2  Hemocrit 44.2. SHBG: 32
9/15/18 labs:  Total T (trough day):  598 (250 -1100 ng/dl)  Free T 73.9 (46-225) Sensitive E2: 21  Hemocrit 43.7  SHBG 34
2/20/19 labs:  Total T (mid point):  776 (250 -1100 ng/dl) Free T 115.6 (46 - 224 pg/ml) Sensitive E2 24 (<29), DHT 43 (16-79 ng), DHEA-s 244 (70-495 mcg/dl)


Supplements:  Multivitamin, plus additional B12, B6, C, D, K2, Red Yeast Rice, Magnesium, and Coq10  Evening:  Kyolic Garlic, 2mg Cialis, LEF Endothelial Protection

PeakT

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Re: CT Heart Scan Radiation appears to be on a reasonable level
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2014, 03:26:19 pm »
My question:  this book came out ten years ago.  What has transpired since regarding calcium scoring and other tests?  There is a ton of possible preventative measures on this website.  He only skims the surface of these in his book.

Yeah, I've wanted to join his forum - there is a cost - but just haven't done it yet.  If you find out anything pertinent, let us know.

I am going to probably start out myself with an IMT soon and we'll take it from there...
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

golfboy307

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Re: CT Heart Scan Radiation appears to be on a reasonable level
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2014, 04:14:59 pm »
Help me out with the IMT acronym?  Thanks...
Age 51, 5'10, 155 lbs
Cholesterol 162 (HDL 59, LDL 87, Trigs 88, LDL-P 850)
Fasting Glucose 65 (down from 97 pre TRT)
A1C:  5.0 (down from 5.7 per TRT)
Homocysteine:  12.4 > 11.0 > 10.2 > 8.9 using B vitamin therapy.  MTHFR positive 

BP  120/78 (using improved diet and 10 mg Lisinopril ACE Inhibitor)  145/90 prior to meds.

Current protocol:  60 mg Test Cyp IM every 5 days.  No AI.
2/15/17 labs:  Total T (peak day): 1169 (250 - 1100 ng/dl).  Free T 198 pg/ML (46-225).  Sensitive E2: 40 High.  Previously 32. PSA 0.2  Hemocrit 44.2. SHBG: 32
9/15/18 labs:  Total T (trough day):  598 (250 -1100 ng/dl)  Free T 73.9 (46-225) Sensitive E2: 21  Hemocrit 43.7  SHBG 34
2/20/19 labs:  Total T (mid point):  776 (250 -1100 ng/dl) Free T 115.6 (46 - 224 pg/ml) Sensitive E2 24 (<29), DHT 43 (16-79 ng), DHEA-s 244 (70-495 mcg/dl)


Supplements:  Multivitamin, plus additional B12, B6, C, D, K2, Red Yeast Rice, Magnesium, and Coq10  Evening:  Kyolic Garlic, 2mg Cialis, LEF Endothelial Protection

PeakT

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Re: CT Heart Scan Radiation appears to be on a reasonable level
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2014, 10:37:38 pm »
Help me out with the IMT acronym?  Thanks...

Intima Media Thickness.  it's basically an ultrasound of the neck artery I believe.  Unfortunately, it's not super good for comparing improvements over the short term.  It's best more just to establish if you have some existing arteriosclerosis that needs to be dealt with. 
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Tfan

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Re: CT Heart Scan Radiation appears to be on a reasonable level
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2014, 01:04:03 am »
Help me out with the IMT acronym?  Thanks...

Intima Media Thickness.  it's basically an ultrasound of the neck artery I believe.  Unfortunately, it's not super good for comparing improvements over the short term.  It's best more just to establish if you have some existing arteriosclerosis that needs to be dealt with.

CT is by far the best technology available and the fastest exam. 64 channel imaging means that your coronaries will be imaged in one single shot and they will be able to reconstruct whatever the heck they want.

You would not go CT if = 1 radiation is an issue for you. I spent a good ammount of time talking to imaging people over the last weeks to clarify this and found out that is it is no longer an issue. Now that you are saying that Davis is over ten years old, and he does not mention a single word about radiation... intrigued. Ten years ago this exam was a real big issue in terms of radiation and you would do it only if you would  be high risk. The fad of screening with CT was a big flaw because that ammount of radiation was a disaster. With the numbers I saw today, I am confortable.

2 - soft plaque without calcium - Peak mentioned that this might be an issue and then I am again intrigued. So if you have zero score, you could still have plaque. We need to clear this doubt out with more resarch, but for soft tissues we need to rely on ultrasound and MRI. MRI guys are trying really hard to get their way into cardio, but CT is so good that it is not worth the investment. Ultrasound would be fantastic, but Peak should know better where this technology rely.

This month s issue of Technology Review from MIT has an article about xray imaging soft tissues.... this could be a possible hope for CT... long shot though..

Age 48
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PeakT

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Re: CT Heart Scan Radiation appears to be on a reasonable level
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2014, 06:26:20 am »
Thx Tfan.  I'll let you know what I find out and v.v. if you don't mind...
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

golfboy307

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Re: CT Heart Scan Radiation appears to be on a reasonable level
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2014, 06:49:08 pm »
Having just finished Davis book (2004, original ed.), his contention as I read it is that all types of plaque will have some calcium, both soft and hard.  For plaque to be large enough to rupture and cause damage, it would have to have been there awhile (hence calcium present).  He points out, rightly I think, that it is unstable plaque that ruptures, and some hardened areas are quite stable.  (Many elderly folks have "stable" angina along these lines)

 I remember this was a big issue when these scans were first popular:  doctors warned people that just because you had a zero score didn't mean you are out of the woods.  However, like you, I would be interested what 10 more years of data tells us.   I think no matter what, if you are over 40 and have a zero score, you have a very low risk of an heart attack from the traditional cause. 
Age 51, 5'10, 155 lbs
Cholesterol 162 (HDL 59, LDL 87, Trigs 88, LDL-P 850)
Fasting Glucose 65 (down from 97 pre TRT)
A1C:  5.0 (down from 5.7 per TRT)
Homocysteine:  12.4 > 11.0 > 10.2 > 8.9 using B vitamin therapy.  MTHFR positive 

BP  120/78 (using improved diet and 10 mg Lisinopril ACE Inhibitor)  145/90 prior to meds.

Current protocol:  60 mg Test Cyp IM every 5 days.  No AI.
2/15/17 labs:  Total T (peak day): 1169 (250 - 1100 ng/dl).  Free T 198 pg/ML (46-225).  Sensitive E2: 40 High.  Previously 32. PSA 0.2  Hemocrit 44.2. SHBG: 32
9/15/18 labs:  Total T (trough day):  598 (250 -1100 ng/dl)  Free T 73.9 (46-225) Sensitive E2: 21  Hemocrit 43.7  SHBG 34
2/20/19 labs:  Total T (mid point):  776 (250 -1100 ng/dl) Free T 115.6 (46 - 224 pg/ml) Sensitive E2 24 (<29), DHT 43 (16-79 ng), DHEA-s 244 (70-495 mcg/dl)


Supplements:  Multivitamin, plus additional B12, B6, C, D, K2, Red Yeast Rice, Magnesium, and Coq10  Evening:  Kyolic Garlic, 2mg Cialis, LEF Endothelial Protection

PeakT

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Re: CT Heart Scan Radiation appears to be on a reasonable level
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2014, 09:57:12 pm »
Having just finished Davis book (2004, original ed.), his contention as I read it is that all types of plaque will have some calcium, both soft and hard.  For plaque to be large enough to rupture and cause damage, it would have to have been there awhile (hence calcium present).  He points out, rightly I think, that it is unstable plaque that ruptures, and some hardened areas are quite stable.  (Many elderly folks have "stable" angina along these lines)

 I remember this was a big issue when these scans were first popular:  doctors warned people that just because you had a zero score didn't mean you are out of the woods.  However, like you, I would be interested what 10 more years of data tells us.   I think no matter what, if you are over 40 and have a zero score, you have a very low risk of an heart attack from the traditional cause.

Yeah, and I can tell you that endothelium is not in the best shape in the world even tho I had that 0 calcium score.  Now it could be on the noradrenaline side:  am working way too many hours; not enough sleep quite often - you know the story.  What I heard was that even if your arteries are in pretty good on the calcium score, you probably still have some scar tissue, etc.  I just know that I still have to really babysit things and eat a lot of high nitrate foods and 2 mg of Cialis per day, etc.

Thx for the info on the soft tissue - I didn't remember that.  I kind of wondered when my doc said that.  He's just ramping up on the cardiology side.  And kudos to him for even trying to get into preventative medicine.  I don't think the majority of PCPs spend much time there.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: CT Heart Scan Radiation appears to be on a reasonable level
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2014, 09:57:12 pm »