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Author Topic: Another young guy on the Low end of the T scale  (Read 32473 times)

PeakT

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Re: Another young guy on the Low end of the T scale
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2012, 05:55:53 pm »
that testosterone improves with age

Testosterone improves with age?!?  Are you sure he really said that?  If so, that's unbelievable...
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
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And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

avacado

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Re: Another young guy on the Low end of the T scale
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2012, 06:37:31 am »
yes peak, as soon as I heard those words I knew I was going to get nowhere.

The other annoying thing is, i'll have these scans at some point, and they just get interpretted by the same GP at the surgery?  Surely some kind of urology expert would know better!!

god bless the nhs huh, guess I need to do my own research on accounts from UK guys in my situation

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Re: Another young guy on the Low end of the T scale
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2012, 06:37:31 am »


PeakT

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Re: Another young guy on the Low end of the T scale
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2012, 01:59:57 pm »
Here in the U.S. it is much less common for GP's to know anything about male health issues, so I'm not surprised.  I think another pitfall that doctors fall into is that the read a couple of articles about it and think they are an expert.  Not sure why that is, but it seems to be the case...

Anyway, there are tons of horror stories on this board about the NHS.  I feel kind of uncomfortable making any comments as an outsider, but the negative response really does seem overwhelming. 
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

avacado

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Re: Another young guy on the Low end of the T scale
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2012, 06:44:32 am »
haha yes, I dont want to make this an NHS bashing thread.  Anyway, while trying to google about bloodtests in this city, I stumbled upon 2 forums posts :  1 was a guy who posted about getting a blood test in this city after using AAS, another was from a transgender forum of a girl trying to become a guy.

For this reason I figured why the hell am I not entitled, so i've booked an appointment with another doc, this time female.  I'll make it clear that im just going to bounce around until someone gives me a test again

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Re: Another young guy on the Low end of the T scale
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2012, 06:44:32 am »


PeakT

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Re: Another young guy on the Low end of the T scale
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2012, 01:15:59 pm »

For this reason I figured why the hell am I not entitled, so i've booked an appointment with another doc, this time female.  I'll make it clear that im just going to bounce around until someone gives me a test again

Never say die, eh?

Let us know if that works as your strategy may help someone else down the road...
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

werd200

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Re: Another young guy on the Low end of the T scale
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2012, 04:50:33 pm »
First off i'd just like to say great website and forum, its another outlet and resource on my quest to figure out whats going on.

I'm currently 25 years old, 6'0", about 185lb, around 12% bf? (visible abs). over a year ago in the midst of my first graduate job, the stress factor seemed like it was getting to me and my libido was almost gone, after a hard days work I would get into bed and struggle to stay awake, let alone sex with the gf, which caused some issues.  I eventually faced up and sought help from our wonderfull health service here in the UK.  My job was bad, i had to get up real early so sleep was deprived (6-7 hours max), was running on coffee most of the time, and it was in a cold meat factory involving alot of labrous activitys. as well as 1.5 hours commuting every day on a high speed motorway

The doc seemed to think it was stress management issues, but reluctantly sent me for a thyroid test as well as serum testosterone.  When I phoned and was was told the results were all "normal", with my little understanding at the time of what that could mean ,i assumed my problem was stress related and just tried to work really hard on my diet and supplements.

Fast forward to april, I finally get a new job: way more money, no commute, longer time to sleep, no need for coffee, office full of women, I think great finally things will change.  I've been there 3 months now and I love the job but still feel that constant fatigue and cloudiness, and still signs of lower T, as in i'm not waking up with morning wood as often and if I do, it disappates quickly.

I went to the doc and decided to ask what my measurement was last year, got the papers and it was 14.1!! nmol/L  This was a different doctor who printed the results and he was useless and didn't want to know.

so that is like 414, crazy when I think its 12nMol/L that guys are considered problematic over here.  Especially as my diet was good and and not overweight. my serum T4 was 16.1pmol/L, serum TSH 2.9miu/L

Anyway now I know this, I almost want to seek out another test just to see if all the changes i've made have ramped up production, and if indeed my problem is psychological or what.

My level isn't low enough to warrant TRT and that is not what I want, but i think its fair to say i'm on a low enough end that I should regularly monitor the level.  I'm heading back to the doctor this week and i really think getting another test a year on shouldn't be an unreasonable request?  its just really hard to ask for as they don't want to know

But from what i'm reading 414 is pretty poor on this forum?  This is a guy who has a degree in nutrition, eats good fats, lifts 3-4 times a week for 45 minutes, recovers well etc.  I'm just worried that if my level is this low then by the time i'm 35 i'm easily be in the 300s.


As a side note, i've had groin pain for the last 9 months, again the first doctor dismissed it as a strain, but it never really went aaway, i've been back a few times thinking it may be a varicocele, the last doctor i saw said oh i think it's cysts, both of your epididymis are inflamed.  This hasnt gone away, I can feel the hard lumps on the top of both testiscles.  The lack of formal diagnosis is distressing, the pain isn't bad but will it get worse? who knows if its causing the low T.  I'm thinking i need to demand a referral to a urologist but its like here in the UK they only care if you are in really bad pain?

THanks for reading

Do you have any other readings you can tell us about? SHBG, LH, FSH, ALBUMIN?. 432 ng/dl is only low if you're SHBG is too high. If your  SHBG is too HIGH then no wonder you feel like shit brah. Get those lumps checked out and have them done with. Also it's strange that they won't give you a referral when you possibly have cysts and inflamed epidiymis. And if you do have hard lumps, you should just man up and show them to the GP so they can give you a referral or perhaps treatment.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2012, 05:00:40 pm by werd200 »

FightLowT

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Re: Another young guy on the Low end of the T scale
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2012, 05:01:12 pm »
He just told me my level of 14 on a scale of 8-30 was very good
That's because he's not the one with low testosterone.


Agreed..And if you had those levels taken in the morning they are gong to be lower by 4pm for sure..Probably close to the entry level of that range. I can be at 260 ng/dl at 4pm..No wonder guys don't feel like chasing after women on the weekend nights anymore. And the kicker of it all is that single guy are supposed to have higher levels than guys in relationships and marriages...lol..

werd200

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Re: Another young guy on the Low end of the T scale
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2012, 05:13:15 pm »
He just told me my level of 14 on a scale of 8-30 was very good
That's because he's not the one with low testosterone.


Agreed..And if you had those levels taken in the morning they are gong to be lower by 4pm for sure..Probably close to the entry level of that range. I can be at 260 ng/dl at 4pm..No wonder guys don't feel like chasing after women on the weekend nights anymore. And the kicker of it all is that single guy are supposed to have higher levels than guys in relationships and marriages...lol..

It's only fine if his shbg is naturally in the 7-12 n/mol range, above that and he's screwed. But then again i'm not 100% sure about the relationship between serum testosterone levels versus bioavailable testosterone. But technically speaking if his SHBG is in the 7-12 n/mol range he's supposed to have enough free and bio available testosterone to be normal.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2012, 05:18:42 pm by werd200 »

avacado

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Re: Another young guy on the Low end of the T scale
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2012, 09:40:34 am »
Werd2000, I've had my balls checked about four times in the last year, everytime sent away as fine depesite the mysterious achey pain.  So om finally getting sent for an ultrasound, still waiting on my appointment time though.

Standard practice on the UK is just to test for testosterone, if its above twelve they don't seem to send you for further tests. The thing is my reading of 14 was over a year ago and my fatigue is worse now despite having a lower stress lifestyle, I think this warrants a retest. Im deffo going to press to get lh measured. Shbg would be very usefull but is be lucky to get any measurement it seems!


I did take a saliva test in June. Though I know these are not really respected as standard on here. But I scored 81. On a scale of 47-140 For my age group.  Saliva is supposed to correlate with free test so is say I'm closer to the bottom of the range them the top, even though i am within range.

My symptoms are not are life destroying as others here, i can get it up et , just my desire is not there, I'm anxious, and I completely lack l aggression even yohugh I'm in great physical shape and have train martial arts forever

avacado

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Re: Another young guy on the Low end of the T scale
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2012, 06:43:10 am »
Just an update, sorry to keep bumping this before I get numbers, but I figure it may be usefull for any other lurkers.  Had my doctors appointment, felt like I was cramming for a test to make sure I said the right thing to actually get listened to.

Always uneasy when you walk into a doc appointment and the doc looks so unhealthy themselves.  Anyway I managed to get at least another blood test (renal, thyroid, iron etc), and a measurement for total testosterone.  Tried to ask for more a comprehesive measure (shbg, lh, fsh) in case I just measure 14 again, but unfortunately this is just the protocol.

So I have my blood draw at 850 on tuesday morning, I believe this is fasted?  morning of a the test should I consume anything, like a glass of water so i'm not dehydrated? any other
pre test tips to get a realistic measure?  will leave it plenty of time so i dont get stressed in traffic! peak I thought you had an article on this but i cant find it.

I've been taking a herbal supplement, bioforge (tongkat ali, ashwanggha, shijialit, vit d, zinc), I still have a bottle left after running 2 bottles, this may have raised test a bit, but probs too soon to stop taking it to know.  I may as well just keep taking it and at least i'll have an idea if it lives up to the hype!

PeakT

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Re: Another young guy on the Low end of the T scale
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2012, 03:29:14 pm »

Always uneasy when you walk into a doc appointment and the doc looks so unhealthy themselves.  Anyway I managed to get at least another blood test (renal, thyroid, iron etc), and a measurement for total testosterone.  Tried to ask for more a comprehesive measure (shbg, lh, fsh) in case I just measure 14 again, but unfortunately this is just the protocol.


This is SO true.  Almost every middle-aged doctor I have seen looks tired, out of shape, aged and often overweight.  Even the younger doctors look like they've been through the war. 

What's interesting is that the middle-aged men that I see in the gym often look about a hundred times better than these docs and the same is usually true with long time runners that I have known. 

But it all makes sense I think:  physicians are generally businessmen with a very tough and involved business to run.  They have office staff, insurance companies and are working long hours.  Yes, they make a lot of money, but, unfortunately, I think their personal health goes by the wayside.

So, ironically, a lot of us on this board could probably server as "personal trainers" to their docs and get their health back on the right track!

A great example are the pictures of Jeffrey Life, an M.D. of some sort, before he got into fitness and anti-aging, and after.  Too bad more docs don't put all the medical research into play.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

PeakT

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Re: Another young guy on the Low end of the T scale
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2012, 03:32:42 pm »

So I have my blood draw at 850 on tuesday morning, I believe this is fasted?  morning of a the test should I consume anything, like a glass of water so i'm not dehydrated? any other
pre test tips to get a realistic measure?  will leave it plenty of time so i dont get stressed in traffic! peak I thought you had an article on this but i cant find it.


Go with what your doc's office says, but I have never heard of anyone having to fast for a testosterone test.  Now he may have you fast cuzz he's pulling other stuff - fasting insulin for example - so make sure you know before you go in.

I have an article on some good tests to have run (if you can), but it doesn't really address what you're asking.

Also, don't sweat the small stuff.  Your testosterone varies a little due to a variety of factors.  If it's up or down 10 or 15%, it shouldn't affect decision making (if you have a good doctor).
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

avacado

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Re: Another young guy on the Low end of the T scale
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2012, 06:33:29 am »
I think as part of the general blood test they look at resting blood glucose etc.  I did state that in the past few weeks I have been having general issues with energy, night time urination is constant etc, so I think the general panel looks at all these things, so i just won't eat in the morning.

I think I once read somewhere that a large insulin spike can stifle test for a few hours, maybe that is why it is a good idea to not eat in that regard?

PeakT

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Re: Another young guy on the Low end of the T scale
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2012, 03:18:25 pm »
I think as part of the general blood test they look at resting blood glucose etc.  I did state that in the past few weeks I have been having general issues with energy, night time urination is constant etc, so I think the general panel looks at all these things, so i just won't eat in the morning.

I think I once read somewhere that a large insulin spike can stifle test for a few hours, maybe that is why it is a good idea to not eat in that regard?
Okay, that makes sense.  Btw, you can buy cheap monitors to check your own blood glucose.  Are you getting any symptoms of hypoglycemia?  If so, get yourself a monitor and check your own blood glucose.  This is a good idea even if you are pretty normal as they believe that high post-meal blood glucose surges are what hammer and kill beta cells.

Personally, I wouldn't sweat the small stuff.  Yes, though, a glucose drink lowered testosterone by about 25% for several hours afterward:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Testosterone_Glucose
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

avacado

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Re: Another young guy on the Low end of the T scale
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2012, 06:38:59 am »
So I finally got my latest results, except vitamin D hadn't come back yet.  Putting the whole results would take me forever as they measured alot of things, but on the whole nothing has changed significantly in a year that couldn't be variation test to test.

Plasma testosteone is now 15.7 nmol/L (460), so i'm still in the 400s [edited by moderator]

free T4 is 16 pmol/L (same as last year)
TSH is 2.5 miu/L , slightly down from last year

Serum urea was flagged as slightly high, 9mmol/liter, i think the target is 2-8.  May indicate I was dehydrated or may indicate my kidneys are having some issues, may explain why i've been feeling aot worse lately, its hard to be sure.

fasting plasma glucose 4.8mmol/L

Red blood cell count 5.39 (10^12/L)

not sure what else may be of interest there?

The doc was actually very good with me, he was a temporary doc only at the practice for a few months, he spoke to me for way longer then the usual 10 minutes, and said that while he thinks my testo level is far within normal he was there not to save money but to help his patients so agreed to send me for a further blood test to take SHBG to calculate the free androgen index, which I've heard is not the best but its just the UK protocol to calculate free test

I thought i'd hit a jackpot when he was like "i dont know if there's any other tests that would be usefull" and I started mentioning lh, fsh, estrogen, prolactin.  But he had to go get a form and I think on the way spoke to another doctor at the surgery who talked him out of it "we only usually test lh and fsh in women".  I explained that what with the groin pain i've had in the past year and as yet an ultrasound not being booked in, i'm after reassurance that my body is not sending out signals that my balls are failing to act on.

But this doc was still good and it was the best appointment yet i've had regarding this.  He says he's only at the surgery for a few months so i deffo need to take this as far as i can while there is someone that will listen.  So i'll post back in a few weeks with free test results and hopefully vitamin D too

thanks, checking the forum every day there's some excellent advice here!
« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 01:23:17 pm by PeakT »

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Re: Another young guy on the Low end of the T scale
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2012, 06:38:59 am »