Another young guy on the Low end of the T scale

[PeakT]

You may be able to get LH/FSH if you mention that you need to know if you are primary or secondary.  If I recall, you're a younger guy and interested in fertility, so clomid would be an option for you if you are secondary, etc.  You gotta give them a bone.

Congrats on finding a pretty decent doc for once, at least one that is well above the average and does really care for his patients it sounds like.

Can you include the ranges for the tyroid readings listed by the lab?  Is that easy to look up?

[avacado]

well one thing is that if I do have to get lh and fsh seperate, at least its another test and i'll have a pool of measurements across seperate days I suppose.  not sure if clomid is even an option in the UK for this purpose?

thryoid: T4 16.0 pmol/L ( range 10-25)
             TSH 2.5 miu/L  (range 0.1-6)


doc seemed to suggest that if the issue was pituitary related then thyroid would be flagged up, but i've never really heard that on any of these forums. or anywhere else

[werd200]

I suspect strongly that your problem lies with your balls. It's uncommon for male to have a testosterone level of 460 unless your SHBG is very or you're grossly overweight like myself. If you can afford it, go to a private urologist and give him a list of tests and show him your testicles(don't be embarrased, just man up and show it to him/her). Since it's fully paid service, he has to give into your demands.

[avacado]

I'm getting a repeat blood test tommorow for shbg. So will know on that front.

But as you say, it just doesn't seem right, and I see all these studies about varicoceles impairing test. So I'm on a waiting list for an ultrasound, unfortunetly the downside of free health care is the crazy waiting lists. I was told 8 to twelve weeks and its probably been 4 or 5. Will check with the doc next week. I'm happy I'm finally getting tests in the pipeline after all this not having be resolves for a year

[werd200]

I'm getting a repeat blood test tommorow for shbg. So will know on that front.

But as you say, it just doesn't seem right, and I see all these studies about varicoceles impairing test. So I'm on a waiting list for an ultrasound, unfortunetly the downside of free health care is the crazy waiting lists. I was told 8 to twelve weeks and its probably been 4 or 5. Will check with the doc next week. I'm happy I'm finally getting tests in the pipeline after all this not having be resolves for a year

Varioceles can impair your test with as much as 175 ng/dl, and if you have one, there is chance that getting it operated will get you back into the 600 range, if you're in the 430-460 RANGE. cutting down on a few pounds would help aswell. -

[avacado]

Another update: though not much I didn't expect and not really usefull info

They measured SHBG which came out to 39nmol/L (range 13 - 71)

But they didn't remeasure test at the same time! So even the inferior free androgen index cant accurately be drawn here.

Also got vitamin D3 back, came out at 208nmo/L (adequete is 60nmol/L at this lab, i read 120 is a good target on robbwolf.com)

Vitamin D2 came at <10mnol though i'm not really sure what this even means.


Doc still insisted all was fine, that it was likely in my head, pointed to relationship stress, and even offered me a "pill" to assist with this, probably an anti anxiety.  I turned it down.  He was helpfull I just think he has no guidelines for any of this.

He said, ok, final bloodtest, I expect to see nothing wrong, but what do you want.  I said: test, LH, FSH, prolactin, estrogen.  No point doing SHGB again as its not really telling me a lot other then maybe it could be lower

Also requested a full lipid panel and asked him to chase up my ultrasound as i've still not recieved a date to get my groin checked out.


I digress!

[PeakT]

Nice.  You're a great example of digging in and trying to find out just where you are at...

[avacado]

Finally had my latest panel back and I'm slightly in shock to be honest.  This is since coming off the herbal test booster so kinda shows they can help things to some degree.

Test has dropped to 11.4nmol range 8-30. This is about 340 in USA measurements.
Fsh is 2.3iu/l range 1 - 9
Lh is 4.5iu/l range 1 - 9
Prolactin is 201mu/l just says it should be under 550
Oestradiol is 76 pmol/l range just says should be below 150

Serum cholesterol 4.1mmol/l

Doc still tried to say I was well within the normal range. This level is not good though and explains a lot to me. He tried to refer me to a psycho sexual clinic for libido issues rather then addressing the low rest.

I've decided to wait until I have my ultrasound, get the results of my adrenal fatigue test, and look for advice from the internet before doing anything further.

Any thoughts let me know

[JackAndy]

Your situation is about like mine and I was getting the same reaction from doctors here in Japan. They wanted to send me to a psychologist because they thought the symptoms were in my head. Gynocomastia is not in my head and is quite obvious so I disagreed with them. Anyway I can tell you that I feel much better now that I am on testosterone enanthate injections.

[PeakT]

Doc still tried to say I was well within the normal range. This level is not good though and explains a lot to me. He tried to refer me to a psycho sexual clinic for libido issues rather then addressing the low rest.

Unbelievable!  How can I doc not think testosterone that low has anything to do with it??

Look at the study in the link below.  ALL the best and most accurate symptoms for low testosterone were found to be sexual in nature!

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Hypogonadism_Testosterone

[Simeoni]

Hey avocado, what happened with the varicocele? Did you get it verified via ultrasound? Im on a waiting list for the operation. The date is set on april.

Simeoni

[avacado]

hey I should probably update this.


Ultrasound finally happend after a 12 week wait on the glorious NHS!  the result was.... zero abnormalities, which i was shocked to find but this is good I guess.  Now I theories the pain i sometimes feel is possibly reffered pain from my back, as i do have a histroy of back pain, but if my balls all seem fine then they should be capable of producing test.

weeks back I completed an adrenal stress test as I suspected adrenal fatiue, which can impair testosterone pathways.  The results of this saliva test were as follows

Waking 715am cortisol 7.3 ng/ml (range 1.5 - 15.0)
pre lunch 1pm cortisol 1.9 ng/ml (range 0.3 - 5.0)
pre gym 530pm cortisol 1.4 ng/ml (range 0.3 - 5.0)
pre bed 11pm cortisol 1.1 ng/ml
DHEA 715am 1400 pg/ml (range 150 - 580) HIGH
Testosterone 715am 90 pg/ml (range for my age 47-140)
Oestrodiol 3.3 pg/ml (range 0.20-3.4) HIGH

So my cortisol follows a decreasing rhythm but all values were less then half the range and DHEA is way over the range which indicates stress.  My current efforts are to heal my adrenals with some protocols and i am going to have to take the hard decision to take a break from going heavy in the gym, as every time you hammer the exercise, cortisol is released and clearly my body is having trouble keeping up.  I will then re take the test in a few months and see if i've improved.  Luckily got 12 days off over xmas so i can just chill and sleep.

My GP saw my adrenal tests results, and although adrenal fatigue isnt an accepted medical condition, he did agree there were question marks over my thyroid too so has reffered me to an Endo, so but this may take a month or 2.

So for now i'll focus on adrenal health, but next year after my first endo visit i may try a clomid challenge, too see what levels my balls are capable of producting.  I 've found a usefull website here in the uk, www.privatebloodtests.co.uk , this allows you to run bloods at a local hopsital without going through your GP, which is usefull for tracking things like clomid

[PeakT]

Yeah, you want to get that high DHEA checked out.  And he will also probably run other studies that will help such as ACTH I would guess.

Btw, taking a break from the weight may really help your back.  Based on my experience, if you've hurt yourself, you need 2-3 weeks to recover and you'll be in a much better place after that.  I don't know if that is what you are saying though, but it's nice when you're not hurting all the time...

[avacado]

Peak, yes even though dhea was salivary it will be a good idea to get a serum reading too, as i understand high serum readings can be a sign of adrenal tumour, though this is unlikely, its always pays to check.

my back pain isn't too bad, it was bad when i was young in university having to sit in lectures for 3 hours.  Nowadays, i know its just a bit tight and could benefit from some massage, this is something i may do in the new year.

Nothing is worse though then suspected low t/adrenal issues.  I've realised how consuming it all is, my GF thinks i'm obsessed with reading articles/forums.  But i mean, if you had an untreated/unresolved broken leg, you wouldn't switch off from thinking about that either...

[Simeoni]

Nothing is worse though then suspected low t/adrenal issues.  I've realised how consuming it all is, my GF thinks i'm obsessed with reading articles/forums.  But i mean, if you had an untreated/unresolved broken leg, you wouldn't switch off from thinking about that either...

Im kinda in a similar situation. Altough I feel that my wife is starting to understand how conserned I am about my health - and how much its affecting my everyday life. Still, there might be alot of truth in her words. Atleast I can say for myself, that I could spend a little less time digging and more time with the old lady. That said, when you realise that at the end of the day, its you whos responsible for your health - and your also dealing with doctors who sometimes appear to be idiots or liars - youll end up digging.