How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods

[PeakT]

With subq angle is not that important if i understand.

Hmm, I don't quite follow. I guess my thought is that it would be more straightforward to just use a shallower needle (5/16"). I just don't see why you would need a 0.50" needle for SubQ (even though it seems relatively common). Seems like 5/16" should do the trick nicely...so why are some using a 0.50"?

Actually, a 5/16 is not a bad idea and would probably help me keep injecting into the abs.  And the only reason is that I've never thought about it.

[Hydranted]

What is a good needle length for SubQ? I am using a 0.5" 29ga needle, but that length seems longer than it needs to be for SubQ. I also saw that some are using 5/16" perhaps? That seems like a better length for SubQ.

I guess it depends on where you inject too. If you go for the thigh, 0.5" seems long (for relatively low fat), but is probably OK for the glutes. So maybe I should just go for the glutes? The only thing about that is it takes a while (0.33mL/injection) to inject and holding still in an awkward position can be difficult. Thoughts?

5/16" needles are great for subQ injections in my experience.  Nothinf wrong with a .5" needle either, although you may not want to bury it if you're injecting into your gut if you're a really lean guy. 

[TopGeek]

I use an 8mm (5/16") 30G 0.5ml needle and I inject 0.1ml Sustanon 250 into the top of alternating thighs EoD. I also have a blood test every 3 months to ensure that my E2 and hematocrit levels remain within the normal range. We cannot get cypionate here in Belgium as the 'powers that be' have decided to only approve Sustanon 250 and Nebido for injection, as well as various gels and capsules.
Even so, I think my experience with Sustanon must be similar to that with cypionate, particularly with regard to maintaining a sensible control of the amount to inject and the need for regular blood tests.
I already had the issue of my hematocrit and other red blood cell components going too high when I was taking 0.15ml EoD. It took 3 months for the levels to come down to normal when I stopped the T injections.
High hematocrit raises the risk of thrombosis. Using only 0.1ml has stabilised the situation.

[Tropicaldaze]

As my TT and free T have been falling after 4 month mark of Testopel implant,free T in particular; down to 88 from 194 five weeks ago, I told my urologist that I wanted to resume test enanthate shots, 20mg IM, daily in order to keep my level stable, plus, I like the control that shots offer versus pellets. He was fine with that.  My question, which probably exists on some thread on this forum: inject every day or every other day?  I don't mind the shots.  Do them in the glutes.  No discomfort as compared to injecting in the quads.  I use a 25g needle.

I saw a thread where Regulus did a mathematical analysis of ED versus EOD versus E3D.  Statistically, it seemed a wash.  But my urologist, who prescribes shots and gels,  likes pellets because they achieve a steady state and he's seen good results in men for whom nothing else worked.  Injecting every day, I believe, can accomplish that steady state just as well, along with being able to adjust the dose up or down, as labs and patient response, warrant.

I'm also changing to AARP Medicare Supplement plan in January, so Medicare will be my primary insurance and I don't know if they cover pellets.   Above all, shots are just easy!  A week after the pellets,  my wife said my butt looked like I'd been kicked by a horse. 

Hope everyone is fine and making progress on your various protocols.

[PeakT]

As my TT and free T have been falling after 4 month mark of Testopel implant,free T in particular; down to 88 from 194 five weeks ago, I told my urologist that I wanted to resume test enanthate shots, 20mg IM, daily in order to keep my level stable, plus, I like the control that shots offer versus pellets. He was fine with that.  My question, which probably exists on some thread on this forum: inject every day or every other day?  I don't mind the shots.  Do them in the glutes.  No discomfort as compared to injecting in the quads.  I use a 25g needle.

I saw a thread where Regulus did a mathematical analysis of ED versus EOD versus E3D.  Statistically, it seemed a wash.  But my urologist, who prescribes shots and gels,  likes pellets because they achieve a steady state and he's seen good results in men for whom nothing else worked.  Injecting every day, I believe, can accomplish that steady state just as well, along with being able to adjust the dose up or down, as labs and patient response, warrant.

I'm also changing to AARP Medicare Supplement plan in January, so Medicare will be my primary insurance and I don't know if they cover pellets.   Above all, shots are just easy!  A week after the pellets,  my wife said my butt looked like I'd been kicked by a horse. 

Hope everyone is fine and making progress on your various protocols.

Ha ha.  Maybe.  He may also like pellets because they deliver him a nice fat reimbursement from the insurance company.

[Tropicaldaze]

But there are also two men on here for whom pellets accomplished what shots or gels couldn't do and only Testopel is covered by insurance.  I agree that the pellets and procedure are pricey.  My doctor told me that each pellet costs $85.  I don't blame doctors as much as the FDA for not approving other pellets and the insurance companies for not leaning on the FDA to allow more competition.  I thought that competition is the basis of the American economic system?

[PeakT]

But there are also two men on here for whom pellets accomplished what shots or gels couldn't do and only Testopel is covered by insurance.  I agree that the pellets and procedure are pricey.  My doctor told me that each pellet costs $85.  I don't blame doctors as much as the FDA for not approving other pellets and the insurance companies for not leaning on the FDA to allow more competition.  I thought that competition is the basis of the American economic system?

Pellets have worked for well for some men.  A lot of it depends on the protocol of your urologist imo, i.e. does he put in enough pellets and does he stretch out the time frame too far. 

And I'm not sure how competition got into this as you and I both believe in competition in the markets and that has nothing to do with whether or not pellets are a good protocol or not.  I am simply pointing out that I think some urologists have a bias towards pellets, because, to be frank, it makes it worth their while.  As I have discussed several times on here, it is not very profitable for a doc to teach a patient how to do self-admistered subQ shots at home.  He probably loses money on that one.  Again, this is why I believe you don't see subQ promoted more by doctors.  It's really a no brainer for those who want injections, but docs can't make a buck off of it and they have a hellacious amount of staff and equipment to pay for.

[roadglide]

Intramuscular:

http://www.excelmale.com/showthread.php?480-How-to-Inject-Testosterone-Safely

SubQ:

http://www.allthingsmale.com/forum/showthread.php?21787-The-Cutting-Edge-Video-Series-with-Dr.-John-Crisler

Please feel free to ask questions within this thread:  we have many guys using cypionate on the forum, both subQ and IM (intramuscular).

CAUTION:  This is not a substitute for the training your doc (should) give you on the subject.

Anyone know why the SubQ link doesn't work anymore?  My T hasn't increased since on cream and believe I will be starting injections soon.  Last time I spoke with my Doc about this, he preferred intramuscular.  The video also discussed HGC, which I also wanted to get my docs opinion on.


Thanks!

[PeakT]

Intramuscular:

http://www.excelmale.com/showthread.php?480-How-to-Inject-Testosterone-Safely

SubQ:

http://www.allthingsmale.com/forum/showthread.php?21787-The-Cutting-Edge-Video-Series-with-Dr.-John-Crisler

Please feel free to ask questions within this thread:  we have many guys using cypionate on the forum, both subQ and IM (intramuscular).

CAUTION:  This is not a substitute for the training your doc (should) give you on the subject.

Anyone know why the SubQ link doesn't work anymore?  My T hasn't increased since on cream and believe I will be starting injections soon.  Last time I spoke with my Doc about this, he preferred intramuscular.  The video also discussed HGC, which I also wanted to get my docs opinion on.


Thanks!

I heard that Dr. Crisler changed his protocol a bit when injecting into the abs.  So maybe that is why?  I'm doing every other day subQ and living it.  I just measured my testosterone levels at two different labs and they came back 700 and 800.  That's a good level for me - not too high and not too low.

[Tropicaldaze]

Yup; some doctors will do the most expensive protocol because it puts a nice piece of change in his or her pocket.  My urologist offers to use gels, shots, compounded cream and pellets.  I never felt I was being pressured to opt for the pellets.  But competition plays a role in medicine.  Testopel, it seems, is the only FDA approved pellet, but there is another brand of pellets and pellets can also be compounded.  Why is the FDA bestowing its approval on only one brand of pellet and why are the insurance companies, who determine what procedures they'll cover and how much they'll reimburse, not pressuring the FDA to allow more competition via giving its approval to other pellet manufacturers, in order to lower the cost.

You know, too, that insurance companies negotiate prices for procedures.  They don't pay whatever the doctor bills.  I had a sleep study awhile back.  The medical group billed it at $2600.  Aetna paid them $640 and I paid my $50 co-pay.  My primary told me that this is the way the game is played with specialists.  He said the only doctors getting nearly 100% were neurosurgeons.  I lump banks, insurance companies and politicians, together. 

How did I get so off topic, when I was looking for info on doing IM T shots everyday?  A big LOL!!!

[roadglide]

Good info thanks to both you guys.  Sounds like you have your T dialed Peak.

Think I'll just follow my Docs recommendations.

[PeakT]

Good info thanks to both you guys.  Sounds like you have your T dialed Peak.

Think I'll just follow my Docs recommendations.

Some guys do more frequent intramuscular.  Guys will inject into the delts, quads and, if you can get your wife/girlfriend to help, the gluts.  But it's nice to just get settled with a protocol, try it out and see how you feel.  Once you are in the system and have a protocol, you can switch doctors and protocols fairly easily.  This is how I'm doing it now.

[roadglide]

Thanks Peak, going in on the 13th for blood draw so we'll see.

[ht]

I have some questions regarding my personal injection protocol, but I'm asking here because I feel like they are general-enough questions that the answers may help quite a few others who are looking to do subQ.

I plan to start subQ injections tomorrow.  I've been on 1cc/200mg IM every 2 weeks until now.  I bought 30g 1/2" insulin syringes, and I plan to inject in my belly (squeeze belly to side of navel, insert needle fully at 90deg).  I have 3 questions:

Is fully inserting a 1/2" needle too far for subQ in the belly?  I'm not super thin, especially here.  Should I get 5/16" instead?

Can I do a weekly 0.5cc injection, or is 0.5cc too much for a single subQ injection?

I know the new Crisler method is to do it in the glutes, but it seems like it would be harder to self-inject in this area.  I'd prefer not to bother my wife with it, even though she's been fine with the IM shots so far.  Are there really tangible benefits from doing it in the glutes as opposed to the belly?

[Steady]

I use a 29g .5cm needle in the belly but I do it at 45 degrees. Its plenty deep that way. I haven't had a problem in about a year on that protocol.

I can't remember the source but have read that .5ml is the upper limit for a oil based SubQ injection. It will probably work fine but if you have any issues think about twice weekly for a smaller volume.