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Author Topic: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods  (Read 62502 times)

doin it

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
« Reply #75 on: September 29, 2017, 04:17:41 pm »

Sure thing, Lee.

I would like to post the following here: hope this is the correct thread. 

Age: 71
Primary Hypogonadism
Low T
High LH
High FSH
Medium high Prolactin
High SHBG
E2=22
5'10, 167

Starting with 0.125 cc/ml T Cyp (25 mg at 2x/week); 200 mg/ml.  Either daily, EOD, or 2x/week undecided (Would like to do 250 mg/ml (easier to meter out) but cannot find it by any of the big well known Pharms.
I think I would like to start with a 28 gauge x 3/8 to 7/16 needle, one piece, throwaway syringe, injected variously around belly button, love handles, and maybe upper, outer glutes. I do have a few xtra lbs around waist, so am wondering if 3/8 or 7/16 needle is ok? (penetrating entire length of needle).

Do you guys recommend 90 or 45 degree injection?

And also wondering if a 0.3 cc syringe (3/10) will have fine enough graduations to accurately measure out 0.125 cc/ml consistently?

Tuberculin or diabetes syringe, any difference for T cyp?

I would like to share an interesting Pubmed paper describing a study of
diabetic school children and adolescents that measured pain of injection for various size needles.  They found that they did not perceive much difference between 27 to 30 ga needles.

 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15016225

So, to get a cross between lighter pain and lower injection time, is why I am starting with a 28 ga needle, sound ok?

Any particular brand/model suggestions for the syringe?  Source?

Thanks very much for any comments anyone may have to the questions above.

Doin it.

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
« Reply #76 on: September 29, 2017, 05:56:06 pm »

Sure thing, Lee.

I would like to post the following here: hope this is the correct thread. 

Age: 71
Primary Hypogonadism
Low T
High LH
High FSH
Medium high Prolactin
High SHBG
E2=22
5'10, 167

Starting with 0.125 cc/ml T Cyp (25 mg at 2x/week); 200 mg/ml.  Either daily, EOD, or 2x/week undecided (Would like to do 250 mg/ml (easier to meter out) but cannot find it by any of the big well known Pharms.
I think I would like to start with a 28 gauge x 3/8 to 7/16 needle, one piece, throwaway syringe, injected variously around belly button, love handles, and maybe upper, outer glutes. I do have a few xtra lbs around waist, so am wondering if 3/8 or 7/16 needle is ok? (penetrating entire length of needle).

Do you guys recommend 90 or 45 degree injection?

And also wondering if a 0.3 cc syringe (3/10) will have fine enough graduations to accurately measure out 0.125 cc/ml consistently?

Tuberculin or diabetes syringe, any difference for T cyp?

I would like to share an interesting Pubmed paper describing a study of
diabetic school children and adolescents that measured pain of injection for various size needles.  They found that they did not perceive much difference between 27 to 30 ga needles.

 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15016225

So, to get a cross between lighter pain and lower injection time, is why I am starting with a 28 ga needle, sound ok?

Any particular brand/model suggestions for the syringe?  Source?

Thanks very much for any comments anyone may have to the questions above.

Doin it.
50mg/week seems pretty low.  Especially for someone with high SHBG. 

28g would be fine.  Most guys try a few different sizes before settling in on a favorite.  There is no harm in trying anything from 25 to 31g.  a 3cc syringe will be difficult to use.  1cc is much easier to dose properly.
Age: 55, Ht: 5'08", Wt: 155 lbs
Protocol: 25 mg T Cyp + 25 IU HCG M,W,F + 2 clicks T Cream + 15mg DHEA + 15mg Pregnenalone daily.
12/2018 test results: TT: 1054 ng/dL (264-916), FT: 17.2 pg/mL (7.2-24), E2: 21.6 pg/mL sensitive (8.0-35.0)

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
« Reply #76 on: September 29, 2017, 05:56:06 pm »


Roger

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
« Reply #77 on: September 29, 2017, 08:10:55 pm »
If I want to stay at 100mg per week of test cyp, what would be the proper dosage if I start SubQ injections EOD? 20mg, 25mg, or 30mg?

Well 100 mg/3.5 ~= 28.6 mg, so the 30 mg dose would put you closest (at 105 mg per week). But it's frequently said that you can use a lower dose when injecting more often, so I would go for the 25 mg dose.

Thanks! I'll probably try to stay as close to 28.6 mg EOD until my next doctor's visit and blood draw. My doctor recently switched me from 80 mg per week to 100 mg per week, so I want to see where that puts my numbers on my next lab test before adjusting up or down.
Age: 53
Height: 5' 8"
Weight: 185 lbs
Body Fat: 10-13%
50 mg test cyp IM twice per week

PeakT

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
« Reply #78 on: September 30, 2017, 10:25:18 am »
If I want to stay at 100mg per week of test cyp, what would be the proper dosage if I start SubQ injections EOD? 20mg, 25mg, or 30mg?

Well 100 mg/3.5 ~= 28.6 mg, so the 30 mg dose would put you closest (at 105 mg per week). But it's frequently said that you can use a lower dose when injecting more often, so I would go for the 25 mg dose.

Thanks! I'll probably try to stay as close to 28.6 mg EOD until my next doctor's visit and blood draw. My doctor recently switched me from 80 mg per week to 100 mg per week, so I want to see where that puts my numbers on my next lab test before adjusting up or down.

That's almost exactly what I was doing - I'm 162 lbs though - but I just recently bumped it up.  I feel a lot better higher to be honest but didn't feel bad at 26 mg EOD.
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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
« Reply #78 on: September 30, 2017, 10:25:18 am »


doin it

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
« Reply #79 on: October 02, 2017, 06:32:25 am »

PeakT,

When you were doing 26 mg, we're you using a 3/10 syringe?  I will be doing those kind of numbers and so l have been looking for a syringe that has graduations fine enough to measure small quantities  accurately and consistently.  I have not been able to find a 10 unit/0.1 cc/0.1ml syringe so am about to give up the search and settle for a 3\10 with half-scale markings.

Thanks,
Doin it

Roger

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
« Reply #80 on: October 02, 2017, 11:00:10 am »
Doin it, you should be able to find what you're looking for at the below link. I use a 1 mL Tuberculin Syringe, 26 Gauge x 3/8 Inch, but if you're looking for something else just type it into the search button and it should pop up. I've been buying my syringes from here for a few years without any problem. You just have to email them a photo of your testosterone Rx on your first order.

https://www.vitalitymedical.com/kendall-tuberculin-syringe-1cc-25ga-x-58.html

 
Age: 53
Height: 5' 8"
Weight: 185 lbs
Body Fat: 10-13%
50 mg test cyp IM twice per week

doin it

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
« Reply #81 on: October 02, 2017, 02:05:20 pm »
Roger.

Thanks for the lead.  Went there, smallest they carry is 3/10 (0.3 cc/ml: 30 unit).  So I guess I'll just be happy with 3/10, half-scale graduation.

Thanks again,
Doin it

PeakT

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
« Reply #82 on: October 03, 2017, 03:21:15 pm »

PeakT,

When you were doing 26 mg, we're you using a 3/10 syringe?  I will be doing those kind of numbers and so l have been looking for a syringe that has graduations fine enough to measure small quantities  accurately and consistently.  I have not been able to find a 10 unit/0.1 cc/0.1ml syringe so am about to give up the search and settle for a 3\10 with half-scale markings.

Thanks,
Doin it

I am using the 29 gauge half inch monoeject from Defy. I really like those as they are cheaper and you can do everything with one syringe.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
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And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program.aspx
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

doin it

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
« Reply #83 on: October 05, 2017, 05:39:46 am »
Peak,

You are probably not carrying a lot of waist fat, and using a 1/2 " needle, are you sure you are not really doing abdominal IM?

I would think a 5/16 or 3/8 " needle would be more likely to be in the fat (assuming needle penetration of the entire needle).

Also, are you using a 3/10 or 1 cc/ml syringe?

Thanks,
Doin it

PeakT

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
« Reply #84 on: October 05, 2017, 09:59:29 pm »
Peak,

You are probably not carrying a lot of waist fat, and using a 1/2 " needle, are you sure you are not really doing abdominal IM?

I would think a 5/16 or 3/8 " needle would be more likely to be in the fat (assuming needle penetration of the entire needle).

Also, are you using a 3/10 or 1 cc/ml syringe?

Thanks,
Doin it

I don't think so.  The last refuge of fat for me is a little pad on my abs.  It's really tough for me to get rid of.  In addition, I kind of go in at an angle.  But it's possible.  Sometimes it really stings and my theory is that that is when I "hit bottom."  I don't know...
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program.aspx
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

doin it

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Are SubQ abdominal injections REALLY IM?
« Reply #85 on: October 07, 2017, 10:33:32 pm »
Posted by: PeakT« on: October 05, 2017, 09:59:29 pm »

Insert Quote

Quote from: doin it on October 05, 2017, 05:39:46 am

Peak,

You are probably not carrying a lot of waist fat, and using a 1/2 " needle, are you sure you are not really doing abdominal IM?

I would think a 5/16 or 3/8 " needle would be more likely to be in the fat (assuming needle penetration of the entire needle).

Also, are you using a 3/10 or 1 cc/ml syringe?

Thanks, 
Doin it


I don't think so.  The last refuge of fat for me is a little pad on my abs.  It's really tough for me to get rid of.  In addition, I kind of go in at an angle.  But it's possible.  Sometimes it really stings and my theory is that that is when I "hit bottom."  I don't know...



Recognizing that insulin and SubQ T both are intended to be injected into the fat layer and not into muscle tissue, I have been trying to pin down (sorry, couldn't resist) what size needle to use for SubQ T (primarily abdominal).  In my search for info, I ran across a paper by BD (the syringe manuf), excerpts from it follow (sorry for its length, but it all seemed applicable to this forum).

Doin it

 During subcutaneous insulin therapy, inadvertent intramuscular (IM) injections may increase pain and/or adversely affect glucose control. The most appropriate needle length for patients depends on skin and subcutaneous adipose layer thickness.

 Research design and methods:
388 U.S. adults with diabetes (in 3 body mass index (BMI) groups: <25; 25-29.9; and ≥30 kg/m2) with diverse demographic features were evaluated. Each subject had ultrasound measurements of skin and subcutaneous thickness (SC) at the four commonly used injection sites; rear upper arm, anterior upper thigh, anterior abdomen and upper outer quadrant of the buttock.

 Results:
BMI ranged from 19.4 to 64.5 kg/m2, age 18 to 85 years; 40% were Caucasian, 25% Asian, 16% Black, 14% Hispanic; 28% had type 1 diabetes.
Mean skin thickness was; arm 2.2 mm, thigh 1.9 mm, abdomen 2.2 mm and buttocks 2.4 mm.

 Thigh skin thickness was <0.6 mm thinner than the buttocks. Differences of 10 kg/m2 account for 0.2 mm skin thickness variation, i.e. the skin thickness difference between patients with BMI of 25 vs. 35 was only 0.2 mm.

 Mean subcutaneous thickness was: arm 10.8 mm, thigh 10.4 mm, abdomen 13.9 mm and buttocks 15.4 mm. Subcutaneous thickness in females was 5.1 mm greater than in males. Differences of 10 kg/m2 account for a difference of 4 mm subcutaneous thickness.

Discussion:

 This data supports the use of short needles for subcutaneous injection therapy. A 4 mm pen needle will successfully deliver medication subcutaneously at all sites in nearly all adults with diabetes. Specifically, it is estimated that perpendicular insertion of such needles will deliver drug into the subcutaneous space >99.5% of the time, without intradermal injections.

 An additional MRI study shows precise anatomic deposition of small volume (4 “units”) saline injections into the thigh of a healthy adult male, BMI 25.2 kg/m2), using 90° insertions of pen needles 4-8 mm in length. Both the 4 mm and 5 mm pen needles deposit the saline within the SC tissue, whereas the 6mm injection is at the level of the muscle fascia, and the 8 mm injection clearly lies within the muscle tissue. Results would likely differ in patients with lower or higher BMI.

 Conclusions:
Injection site skin thickness does not differ by clinically significant degrees in demographically diverse adults with diabetes; subcutaneous thickness has a wider range. Pen needles ≥8 mm, inserted perpendicularly, may frequently enter muscle in limbs of males and those with BMI <25 kg/m2.
A 4 mm length pen needle, inserted perpendicularly without a raised skin fold, will consistently provide subcutaneous medication delivery.

The paper cites the following 2 sources:

 1 Gibney MA, Arce CH, Byron KJ, Hirsch LJ. Skin and subcutaneous adipose layer thickness in adults with diabetes at sites used for insulin injections: implications for needle length recommendations. Curr Med Res Opin. 2010; 26 (6): 1519–1530.

2 MRI images provided by Drs. Anders Frid and Björn Lindén, 2010.

Link to paper (pdf):

 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.bd.com/documents/white-paper/DC_Adult-Skin-Insulin-Injection-Site-Thickness-in-Diabetes_WP_EN.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjB-4y3oeDWAhUq5IMKHd3qDswQFggtMAA&usg=AOvVaw2JfCPRGes04m4UfA9yWEyp


PeakT

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
« Reply #86 on: October 13, 2017, 06:54:01 pm »
Thats for insulin though unless I'm really missing something.

Subq and IM does not share those same concerns as fat as I know.

Have you seen this thread on IM with an insulin needle for example?

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=13677.0
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
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And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program.aspx
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

doin it

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
« Reply #87 on: October 13, 2017, 09:09:03 pm »

Peak,

I think the point the paper is trying to communicate is to establsh the maximum length of needle required to inject a liquid substance (insulin or T, makes no difference) into the fat layer  >99.5 % of the time in most all adults (average BMI, etc.) without getting into the muscle.  And they found that a 4 mm needle will satisfy that requirement.

The paper IS using insulin as the subject liquid but there is no reason the paper cannot be applicable to T as well.  At least, that was my take on it.

Yes, I did read that string and almost commented that you (T guys) have to make sure you are using what they call U-100 insulin syringes (100 units holds 1 cc (or 1 ml), and marked off linearly:  "10" on the body graduations equals 10 units equals 0.1 cc/ml).

Not an expert at syringes in the diabetes world, but I think there are two types: U-100 and U-40. The U-100 is to be used ONLY with U-100 insulin (100 units of insulin per ml) and the U-40 used ONLY with U-40 insulin (40 units of insulin per ml).

There are warnings all over the net not to use U-100 syringes with U-40 insulin and vice versa as the U-40 holds a different amount than the U-100, but can easily be confused with the U-100 ("10" on the body graduations does not equal 0.1 cc/ml type thing).

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
« Reply #88 on: October 25, 2017, 12:50:52 pm »
Hi all - this is my first post. Would be great to receive some advice.

I recently switched to T enanthate after trying a plethora of other things. It's probably been about a month. The ampoules that I receive in the UK are 250mg/1ml. I have been injecting subq EOD, following the advice in this thread. I'm not taking any HCG or Arimidex in order to attain some baseline values.

Few questions:

1) I've noticed that if I inject into my love handles, the 'effects' e.g. morning erections are much lower than if I inject into the layer of fat in the upper/side region of the buttock cheek (fairly close to the hip bone).

As the half life on enanthate is about 8 days and I inject EOD - should I be injecting into 1 site every 8 days? In other words, I have been using left butt-cheek for injection 1 e.g. Monday. Right buttcheek for injection 2 e.g. Weds. Then left buttcheek for injection 3 (friday).

Thoughts?

2) The values that I have been reading in this thread e.g. 0.13ml subq injection = 30mg testosterone (this is just an example) is based on testosterone cypionate. Is this 'testosterone volume' that discounts the volume of the ester? Or plain injection volume, straight from the ampoule/vial? As I understand, testosterone enanthate volume per ml is 250mg, however the ester consumes 70mg, leaving 180mg of actual testosterone in each 250mg ampoule/ml.

I ask because I have been injecting about 0.11ml subq EOD. This translates to 27.5mg of 'ampoule volume' per subq injection / 19.8mg of actual testosterone when you discount the ester itself.

Thoughts?

Thanks guys

Cataceous

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
« Reply #89 on: October 25, 2017, 01:58:39 pm »
...1) I've noticed that if I inject into my love handles, the 'effects' e.g. morning erections are much lower than if I inject into the layer of fat in the upper/side region of the buttock cheek (fairly close to the hip bone).

As the half life on enanthate is about 8 days and I inject EOD - should I be injecting into 1 site every 8 days? In other words, I have been using left butt-cheek for injection 1 e.g. Monday. Right buttcheek for injection 2 e.g. Weds. Then left buttcheek for injection 3 (friday).
...

There's going to be some individual variation, but I can't think of any reason why you would see differences between these two locations. The testosterone enanthate slowly enters the bloodstream where the ester is cleaved, allowing the testosterone to do its job.

I think a major reason for site rotation is simply to avoid irritating any one location too much. The half life doesn't particularly matter. If you're using small insulin needles then site rotation is barely necessary, as they are minimally disruptive of the tissue. I use enanthate also and I alternate subQ injections between left and right quads.

...
2) The values that I have been reading in this thread e.g. 0.13ml subq injection = 30mg testosterone (this is just an example) is based on testosterone cypionate. Is this 'testosterone volume' that discounts the volume of the ester? Or plain injection volume, straight from the ampoule/vial? As I understand, testosterone enanthate volume per ml is 250mg, however the ester consumes 70mg, leaving 180mg of actual testosterone in each 250mg ampoule/ml.

I ask because I have been injecting about 0.11ml subq EOD. This translates to 27.5mg of 'ampoule volume' per subq injection / 19.8mg of actual testosterone when you discount the ester itself.
...

Volume is volume, no matter what the ester. In fact the vast majority of the volume is going to be carrier oil, typically sesame oil with testosterone enanthate. What counts then is the density, so that you can easily do the translation to weight of the testosterone ester. Your particular formulation has a density of 250 mg/mL, but mine is 200 mg/mL. Your calculation is correct for determining the actual testosterone content. This would mainly be useful if you were going to change or compare esters and wanted to get the same amount of testosterone. Otherwise just stick to thinking about the testosterone ester weight. In my case it's 18 mg EOD, considerably less than your 27.5 mg.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2017, 01:22:51 pm by Cataceous »
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 57, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 158 lbs
Protocol: 18 mg T enanthate subQ qod, 250 IU hCG subQ qod, 70 mcg anastrozole qod, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
7-12/2018 test results: TT: 800 ng/dL, E2: 31 pg/mL LC/MS-MS, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG ~30 nmol/L

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods
« Reply #89 on: October 25, 2017, 01:58:39 pm »