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Author Topic: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections + Schedules and Methods  (Read 99383 times)

PeakT

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The following was written by Peak:

Intramuscular:

http://www.excelmale.com/showthread.php?480-How-to-Inject-Testosterone-Safely

SubQ:

Youtube by the University of Pennsylvania: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLeEQTt25QE

Please feel free to ask questions within this thread:  we have many guys using cypionate on the forum, both subQ and IM (intramuscular).

CAUTION:  This is not a substitute for the training your doc (should) give you on the subject. 

---

The following was written by Kierkegaard:

Most symptoms from TRT probably come from too much estradiol (E2), and more rarely too much DHT; both of these hormones are metabolized from testosterone, such that the more you increase one the more the other two increase.  The question then becomes: how can we increase T to a level we want while minimizing its conversion to E2?  The following is a metaphorical "formula" I created for understanding this problem:

Total T --> T metabolites (E2, DHT) = injection method + injection schedule

Please don't take this formula literally.  The idea is that the amount of T you convert to E2 and DHT is a function of your injection method (intramuscular [IM] or subcutaneous [subq]) as well as your injection schedule (how often you inject).

There are a lot of possibilities to consider.  You could inject IM weekly, subq weekly (rare for some reason, perhaps because it's not wise to inject more than .5 ml at once when utilizing subq), IM every three days, subq every three days, and so on.  Why IM?  Because that's the traditional method for injecting testosterone.  Subq has four very good studies to support it (see Peak's page: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/SubQ_Testosterone_Injection_Studies ), but it's still a relatively new treatment; however, it has the clear advantage of making it much easier to inject more often, you don't have to aspirate, and you have no risk of muscle scarring with IM.  The vast majority of guys who have transitioned from IM to subq shots notice significant reductions in E2, something on the order of 40% according to the studies I've looked at; this might be due to something inherent about injecting into fat (slower absorption?), or simply because you're able to inject more often.  Either way, subq injections mean much lower peaks and higher troughs.  Check out this fascinating study that compares HCG (not cypionate, yes, but it should generalize to testosterone) injections on obese and non-obese women comparing subq and IM shots (notice the difference in peaks): http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/18/11/2294/F1.expansion

Here's a hint: injecting less often than weekly IM or subq will very likely not work, and many guys have told the perennial story of doctors who don't know basic pharmacokinetics and regurgitate the "200 mg every two weeks" rule for cypionate, leading to big rollercoaster reactions because levels of T and therefore E2 and DHT shoot into the stratosphere for the first few days around the peak and then reach hypogonadal levels (unless perhaps your SHBG is relatively high) the last few days approaching your next injection.  This stuff doesn't work, and if you have a doctor who insists it does, it's either time to find another doctor or take things into your own hands by injecting more frequently -- which isn't something this site recommends you do. 

Pay attention to your body.  Estradiol and testosterone ranges are pretty huge, and a big philosophical limitation of statistics is it looks at large groups of people to determine ranges, but you're a particular individual, so your sweet spot could be anywhere along the range, although it probably should be somewhere at least at the 20th percentile, and you should be cautious about going into supraphysiological (i.e., above the range) levels because that's just not, you know, natural, dude. 

So say you've tried multiple schedules and methods, playing with, e.g., E3D, EOD, subq, IM, and other combinations, and you still don't feel your best.  This very likely means that your problem is something other than (just) testosterone, and I would highly recommend checking out thyroid (free T3, free T4, antibodies, TSH, reverse T3, also ferritin, iron, selenium, iodine), cortisol (blood: cortisol, cortisol binding globulin, ACTH, DHEA-S; salivary: 4x/day salivary test, which you can order through www.canaryclub.org, DHEA-S might be unreliable because of complicated flow-rate considerations), insulin (fasting glucose, A1C, insulin), growth hormone (IGF-1), and remember to make sure you're getting the right tests pulled for testosterone (free T, total T, E2).  Don't forget the basics, such as diet and exercise.  If you're wanting a big picture that's a superb value (don't let the price intimidate you), check out Life Extension's excellent comprehensive male hormone panel: http://www.lifeextension.com/vitamins-supplements/itemlc100010/male-comprehensive-hormone-panel-blood-test.  Feel free to message me (Kierkegaard) about cortisol stuff, because it can get a bit complicated (i.e., cortisol:ACTH ratio might be more important than just cortisol, testosterone-only TRT seems to lower cortisol just a bit and therefore can cause problems in guys "on the edge" with cortisol, ACTH stim tests can be insensitive, and some guys only get better with a trial of hydrocortisone). 
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 04:02:06 am by Kierkegaard »
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Sam

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2014, 04:53:04 pm »
Important to note, I believe Crisler has moved to doing subQ in his Glutes.  His technique in this video is questionable.   I have been doing subQ for many months now and never got as much blood as he did in the video.  Some posters on his site have suggested that due to his low body fat and direct in technique he actually did a shallow IM injection.

I use the standard pinch technique for subQ and consistently see levels in the 700-900 range with E2 in the 20-30 range without and AI.

My protocol is 0.15ml(30mg) EOD using a 1/2 29ga Insulin Needle.  These work great for subQ IMO.

I am 200lbs and about 7-10% bodyfat.  I typically rotate injections around the fatty areas below my love handles to as far back as I can reach above my but. Rotating sides.   I prefer this area also because if you do get a red bump under the skin it is less noticeable and bothersome IMO.

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2014, 04:53:04 pm »


PeakT

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2014, 05:17:10 pm »
fyi:

Wholbrook was using:  30 gauge 5/16 (8mm) length (Insulin) per this thread:

https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=4582.0

So very similar...

THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Kierkegaard

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2014, 06:07:15 pm »
Important to note, I believe Crisler has moved to doing subQ in his Glutes.  His technique in this video is questionable.   I have been doing subQ for many months now and never got as much blood as he did in the video.  Some posters on his site have suggested that due to his low body fat and direct in technique he actually did a shallow IM injection.

I use the standard pinch technique for subQ and consistently see levels in the 700-900 range with E2 in the 20-30 range without and AI.

My protocol is 0.15ml(30mg) EOD using a 1/2 29ga Insulin Needle.  These work great for subQ IMO.

I am 200lbs and about 7-10% bodyfat.  I typically rotate injections around the fatty areas below my love handles to as far back as I can reach above my but. Rotating sides.   I prefer this area also because if you do get a red bump under the skin it is less noticeable and bothersome IMO.

I also question his 90 degree injection technique.  (Actually, given that I was injecting with a 1/2 inch needle into my glute when I started TRT IM, I probably got a little subq going with it as well, interestingly.)  I inject mine into my stomach (tried glutes for a while a liked them but stomach is easier) at a 45 degree angle, which allows me to get really deep into the fat, minimizing leakage. 
"The same thing that makes you live can kill you in the end." -- Neil Young

March 2014: Dx low T (158ng/dl)
September 2015: Dx hypothyroidism, other adrenal hypofunction
2016: chronic fatigue, unspecified

Depression and anxiety guide: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Help_Anxiety_Depression

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2014, 06:07:15 pm »


PeakT

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2014, 04:26:25 pm »
Here is another site that covers things pictorially to all the different muscle groups:

http://spotinjections.com/index3.htm
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

PeakT

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2014, 05:49:05 am »
Sam is doing subQ in the glut and prefers that.  He found a page that describes the location and technique that he is using:

http://nursing-knowhows.blogspot.com/2010/02/subcutaneous-injection.html
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

HouKN98

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2014, 02:38:15 pm »
Technical question-  when you do IM injections in the quads, do you push the needle in downward or from the side?  I did it from the side this morning, and I think I got some air into my quads.  Is this normal for it to happen every now and then?
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About Me: 35 y/o, 5'11", 165 lbs as of June 2015
TRT: 120 mg T + 1000 IU HCG weekly + 0.5 mg anastrozole, all in divided doses

Steady

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2014, 04:44:47 pm »
If you are sitting with your thighs perpindicular to the floor aiming at the center of the Vastus Lateralis puts you about 45 deg off of vertical. Is that what you mean?
2/12/12 - TT=212, FT=5.3
7/15/13 - TT=876, FT=26.5, E2=17.8
9/19/13 - TT=534, FT=12.5, E2=12
12/5/2013 - TT=701, FT=18.3, E2=15.1
4/21/14 - TT=1002, E2=10.4
6/6/14 - TT=752, FT=18.1, SHBG=28, E2=14.2
7/28/14 - TT=1093, FT=30, E2=65.6b & 46s
10/22/14 - TT=1104, FT=32.6, E2=10s
4/24/15 - TT=945, FT=20.2, E2=48.6s
Prior to last labs SubQ (11/3):
TCyp 34mg & HCG 250iu M/W/F
Current Protocol SubQ:
TCyp 36mg & HCG 250iu & 0.04mg AI - M/W/F

Steady

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2014, 05:00:33 pm »
Check out the spotinjections website linked above in this thread, there are alot of good images.

How much air?
You will want to keep those bubbles to the absolute minimum and if you are using that bubble push method it becomes even more important to aspirate, in my opinion.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 05:14:41 pm by Steady »
2/12/12 - TT=212, FT=5.3
7/15/13 - TT=876, FT=26.5, E2=17.8
9/19/13 - TT=534, FT=12.5, E2=12
12/5/2013 - TT=701, FT=18.3, E2=15.1
4/21/14 - TT=1002, E2=10.4
6/6/14 - TT=752, FT=18.1, SHBG=28, E2=14.2
7/28/14 - TT=1093, FT=30, E2=65.6b & 46s
10/22/14 - TT=1104, FT=32.6, E2=10s
4/24/15 - TT=945, FT=20.2, E2=48.6s
Prior to last labs SubQ (11/3):
TCyp 34mg & HCG 250iu M/W/F
Current Protocol SubQ:
TCyp 36mg & HCG 250iu & 0.04mg AI - M/W/F

HouKN98

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2014, 06:55:29 pm »
If you are sitting with your thighs perpindicular to the floor aiming at the center of the Vastus Lateralis puts you about 45 deg off of vertical. Is that what you mean?

Yeah that's what I mean, and is usually what I do, but I think this time with the way I did it, it was even more than 45 deg off vertical... more parallel to the floor.  I'm still getting the technique down.  Also using the bubble push method, about 0.1 ml, but some of that got in, too.
My TRT Guide & eBook: http://www.trtguide.com
About Me: 35 y/o, 5'11", 165 lbs as of June 2015
TRT: 120 mg T + 1000 IU HCG weekly + 0.5 mg anastrozole, all in divided doses

Hydranted

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2014, 05:46:49 pm »
No need to stress about a little bit of air in your injection.  It helps push out all of the oil and is perfectly safe.  You would have to inject an insane amount of air directly into a major blood vessel for it to have any negative effect.

HouKN98

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2014, 09:09:48 pm »
No need to stress about a little bit of air in your injection.  It helps push out all of the oil and is perfectly safe.  You would have to inject an insane amount of air directly into a major blood vessel for it to have any negative effect.

Good to know, thanks!
My TRT Guide & eBook: http://www.trtguide.com
About Me: 35 y/o, 5'11", 165 lbs as of June 2015
TRT: 120 mg T + 1000 IU HCG weekly + 0.5 mg anastrozole, all in divided doses

Jezza819

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2015, 03:23:31 am »
I've been doing IM injections since early February in the side of the quads and on the first two I bled like a stuck pig. I also had very bad knots in the legs on the first two that lasted for two days afterwards. But now almost 6 weeks or so later I get very little blood if any at all and almost no leg pain the next day.

I first thought that there was no way I could inject myself with a needle and I still have some apprehension holding the needle above the skin but once it goes in it's ok.
50 years old
6' 0"
145 lbs.

PeakT

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2015, 04:27:03 am »
I've been doing IM injections since early February in the side of the quads and on the first two I bled like a stuck pig. I also had very bad knots in the legs on the first two that lasted for two days afterwards. But now almost 6 weeks or so later I get very little blood if any at all and almost no leg pain the next day.

I first thought that there was no way I could inject myself with a needle and I still have some apprehension holding the needle above the skin but once it goes in it's ok.

So what are you doing differently?
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Jezza819

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2015, 06:50:09 pm »
I've been doing IM injections since early February in the side of the quads and on the first two I bled like a stuck pig. I also had very bad knots in the legs on the first two that lasted for two days afterwards. But now almost 6 weeks or so later I get very little blood if any at all and almost no leg pain the next day.

I first thought that there was no way I could inject myself with a needle and I still have some apprehension holding the needle above the skin but once it goes in it's ok.

So what are you doing differently?

Nothing really. I think it's just a matter of the area or muscle getting used to the injection. Wednesday night is my scheduled injection night and the first two times I did it I was still limping at work on Friday. I first started in the right leg but I'm left handed and I thought I just might have missed the angle or something but then the next week it was the same for the left leg. I think it's just a matter of the muscle or skin getting used to injections.

The way I was taught was to stretch the skin tight at the injection area. Then after the injection rub the leg vigorously to try and ease any pain or bleeding. I might have gotten a little dot of blood since then but not like that first night. I had a stream of blood running down my leg before I could get to the cotton balls and band aids. 
50 years old
6' 0"
145 lbs.

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Re: How to Do Testosterone Cypionate Injections
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2015, 06:50:09 pm »