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Author Topic: Should I Go For Maximum Youthful Testosterone Levels?  (Read 7406 times)

sockmonkey

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Should I Go For Maximum Youthful Testosterone Levels?
« on: July 26, 2014, 01:33:14 pm »
I cannot lie, I stole this subject from verbatim from PeakT's comment on my introductory thread.  But it might be a good topic for discussion.  I don't have a dog in this race particularly, so I don't mind tearing this topic to shreds if that's what happens.

Many of the things I've read online point to TRT as an anti-aging strategy.  And ok, sure, it looks like it helps in the gym, too.  And I have to admit, the pics I've seen of Dr. Life and Dr. Crisler look pretty compelling.  I can't say for sure that these gentlemen aim for the high end of the range, but I'm guessing that they do.  And why not?  I'm currently attempting to bolster my sluggish thyroid, taking T4 and T3 in the form of a naturally dessicated thyroid (NDT).  Why shouldn't I also aim for a "youthful" T range if it'll help me add muscle and lose fat, aside from all the other benefits that we discuss here.

I'm a pretty regular middle-aged guy seeking to get the most out of life, and I'm beset by enough of our familiar problems that I decided to look into HRT and eventually landed here.  I've had two Total T tests in my life, three weeks apart, one 306 and one 597.  I'll get another test eventually to find out which is the anomaly.  But even if I find that I'm somewhere in the 500s, why shouldn't I seek to bump that up to 1000?
Age 52
6'2"  194lbs

Not currently on TRT

bzarfas

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Re: Should I Go For Maximum Youthful Testosterone Levels?
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2014, 03:08:38 pm »
  But even if I find that I'm somewhere in the 500s, why shouldn't I seek to bump that up to 1000?
Im interested in this also

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: Should I Go For Maximum Youthful Testosterone Levels?
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2014, 03:08:38 pm »


sockmonkey

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Re: Should I Go For Maximum Youthful Testosterone Levels?
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2014, 05:18:09 pm »
If you don't mind my asking, bzarfas, are you currently doing TRT?  If so, what are your numbers?
Age 52
6'2"  194lbs

Not currently on TRT

PeakT

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Re: Should I Go For Maximum Youthful Testosterone Levels?
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2014, 05:32:42 pm »
Yes, that is one philosophy out there and I though it was beautifully articulated right here in this Testosterone for Executives page:

https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=780.msg7017#msg7017

I quote from the ABC News story:

""Chris Running, 57, president and CEO ... said testosterone was the fuel that kept him on top.  He said the little vial he stores in the bathroom enabled him to run four companies at once, lose 30 pounds and gain muscle, and maintain an energy and mental sharpness he hadn't felt since college."

The same guys later said that it has helped him be successful and "I would say I look more ripped than I have since I was in college.  I mean, I like looking at myself in the mirror. I look freaking awesome. If I was marketing testosterone, I would be marketing in the Wall Street Journal, Business Week and Newsweek and Forbes.  I'm completely sold. I mean I will never not do this.""

So are there any cons?  Well, here are a few to consider:

1.  One expert is insisting that some men, particularly with clotting disorders, could be at increased risk for stroke:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/testosterone_risks (See #7.)

2.  You can feel "wired" and "judgemental" (per Paul Zaks).  I felt this when my T went up (accidently) to a 1400 peak.  I was quick tempered at home, steriotypically alpha doggish.

3.  You have increased risk of side effects from elevated estradiol and DHT (acne, gyno, E.D., male pattern baldness).  This can require increase pharmaceuticals to control the side effects (AI's, acne meds, alpha reductase inhibitors, etc.), all of which have certain risks.

Let me know what you guys think...
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

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Re: Should I Go For Maximum Youthful Testosterone Levels?
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2014, 05:32:42 pm »


PeakT

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Re: Should I Go For Maximum Youthful Testosterone Levels?
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2014, 05:33:50 pm »
One more:

4.  Increased risk of having to withdraw from HRT due to high hematocrit, blood pressure (in sensitive men), etc.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

bzarfas

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Re: Should I Go For Maximum Youthful Testosterone Levels?
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2014, 07:27:43 pm »
If you don't mind my asking, bzarfas, are you currently doing TRT?  If so, what are your numbers?

I talk about this in my log(link in my sig)
but the jist is
PeakT says before getting on TRT, get as lean as you can.  2 main reasons:
1 being overweight can be why you have lowT(high E2 converts T into E)
2 if you have high E(from being fat) and you get on Trt, you'lll have more issues trying to get that AI dose right to get a E2 number that worls
PLUS
the increased T will lead to fat loss(he talks about the somewhere) which will  mess with you more

so june 2013, I was pretty lean about 10-15% and I had just got  a blood test, bujt then I had medical issues-->depression-->refatting
so although I am still fighting my mental battle, I am losing fat again and should be ready for TRT by thanksgiving....

acording to my blood test I am about  350 currently with a high E2(37)  so I'm in no mood to mess with hormones, when I know eaing/fat loss will get me prepared to get my T up

lots of info, eh

This is why I wonder about the OPs question
I think total T is less relevant(although it is important to stay above 200 or whatever) but I think T/E-ratio is more indicated of feeling/no symptoms of low T than just high T and high E

your stats show you are pretty lean?  and you are asking the questions I've asked before
https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=2477.new#new

if that's the case, then feeling sluggish/ED issues, doesnt mean run out and get on HRT, as more testosterone will have less effect then if you reduce estradiol(e2),so losing fat will have more of an impact both on your T/E ratio, ED issues and general health( which is why I think the 1st step in the Peak Program should be to get to 15-20% bodyfat/BMI 25


sockmonkey

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Re: Should I Go For Maximum Youthful Testosterone Levels?
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2014, 10:07:28 pm »
The chain of TRT clinics in SW Florida wanted to hit me with 200mg Test Cypionate at my first "exam" following my labs. As I've read elsewhere on this forum, that's pretty clearly a technique to give us guys a rush and hook us in, and that makes a great deal of sense (commercially).  Their method of dealing with elevated hematocrit was to have us donate blood once in a while.  This center seemed shady - I never even met with a doctor, just a barely trained PA - and that's why I sought out an actual doctor specializing in HRT.

So let's say that I donate blood regularly, monitor my BP, and scale back the dose to deal with symptoms rather than withdraw entirely.  Where's the problem?  I don't run four companies, but I am athletic and I wouldn't mind a performance hit. 

And of course I can't help but derail a thread...so, maybe my T/E ratio is part of my problem?

Free T     597
Estradiol   34 pg/mL
Age 52
6'2"  194lbs

Not currently on TRT

PeakT

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Re: Should I Go For Maximum Youthful Testosterone Levels?
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2014, 11:04:25 pm »
Sorry, I'm confused:

I thought you said your total T was 597?

But to answer your question:

Imo most guys can probably go up to a 1200 peak without too many problems.  I mean there were tons of guys at my last clinic doing just that.  But they all had to use Arimidex and I'm sure more than a few had sides like me.  (I had a little gyno.)  In addition, you really should get tested for the above four or five clotting factors imo...

Is it safe long term?  Well, I know that testosterone has some anti-aging properties such as underhardening arteries, keeping you in the bedroom, improving muscle and weight maintenance, lowering insulin resistance, etc.  But is it both angel and devil for some men?  We just don't have those long term studies yet, so you have to make your own best guess decision with your doc.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

PeakT

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Re: Should I Go For Maximum Youthful Testosterone Levels?
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2014, 11:29:18 pm »
I split out a question on the optimal T/E2 ratio:

https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=4705.0
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

sockmonkey

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Re: Should I Go For Maximum Youthful Testosterone Levels?
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2014, 01:18:20 am »
Sorry, I'm confused:

I thought you said your total T was 597?


Sorry for the confusion, though I'm glad it was an obvious mistake.  Yeah, total T was 597.  And of course I'm being a newb and not searching properly, I guess.  Thanks for all the help, though, I do appreciate the support and the insights.
Age 52
6'2"  194lbs

Not currently on TRT

PeakT

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Re: Should I Go For Maximum Youthful Testosterone Levels?
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2014, 01:26:14 am »

Sorry for the confusion, though I'm glad it was an obvious mistake.  Yeah, total T was 597.  And of course I'm being a newb and not searching properly, I guess.  Thanks for all the help, though, I do appreciate the support and the insights.

Let us know what you decide...
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

sockmonkey

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Re: Should I Go For Maximum Youthful Testosterone Levels?
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2014, 01:35:24 am »
For now, I'm going to work up to my full prescribed dose of natural thyroid and see how I feel in a couple months.  And I'm going to add zinc to my supplements, tighten up my diet/exercise routine and see if I can shake off a little belly fat.

Believe me, I want nothing more than a simple solution in a syringe, even though I'm not at all wired that way.  I'm just tired of feeling prematurely middle aged and depressed.  I'll see my doc next week, though not for me.  He's also my wife's doc, and she likes me to sit in, and if there's an opportunity for a quick question or two (me me, it's all about me!) I might ask him to clarify his position on "youthful" T levels.

I will for sure report my findings and whether or not I decide to go for TRT at this point.
Age 52
6'2"  194lbs

Not currently on TRT


Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: Should I Go For Maximum Youthful Testosterone Levels?
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2014, 07:06:18 am »