Quantcast

Author Topic: If You Are Very Low Testosterone, Why Bother with Clomid and Natural Solutions?  (Read 3890 times)

rainydays

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 78
    • View Profile
[MODERATOR SPLIT FROM HERE: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=6609.0.]

Hey Peak, If I may pose two questions in regard to this situation. What I don't understand, at least.

In this type of scenario when say, numbers are low off the bat, is it time to just give up the fight, accept the body is not capable of producing adequate testosterone and make the transition to TRT?

And secondly. Clomid is not a long-term solution, is it? Why does it appear SO commonly as the go-to, and especially, in this subsequent situation? Where one is placed on TRT, does WELL, and for some reason comes off/doctors want to get off and then try Clomid? Subject then turns miserable again. Why stop supplemental Test to begin with?

I could appreciate that it's to see if the body CAN still make its own T, but it seems so counter-productive. As Clomid then isn't a permanent solution, so the vicious cycle repeats itself. And there was clearly a problem to begin with, that Clomid not being a long-term solution doesn't seem suitable for.

It just seems like a band-aid, or an especially drawn out way of solidifying the need, and delaying the inevitable: TRT.
?
« Last Edit: June 17, 2015, 05:23:00 am by PeakT »

PeakT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 38446
    • View Profile
    • Peak Testosterone
Hey, a few comments and I'm sure others will have opinions:

--Some men do very well on low dose Clomid.  It can be argued that 12.5 mg 3X per week is more safe than HRT in many ways.

--The argument against HRT is the following:

a) It leads many to a partial shutdown of various hormones, such as thyroid, DHEA and maybe cortisol.

b) If you have to go off of HRT due to high PSA, high hematocrit, etc., you may never fully get your old baseline T levels back due to a, i.e. a certain amount of atrophy.

--Finally, I would point out that even if you have very low testosterone, 50+ pounds weight loss and correcting a zinc deficiency can make a dramatic difference - doubling or more - in T levels.

I cover all of this here:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Hdr_Testosterone

By the way, I do see what you are saying and imo HRT provides a much better benefit profile and, if you are careful, you are unlikely to have to go off of HRT.  But I am just giving you the alternative school of thought out there.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2015, 05:23:50 am by PeakT »
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Peak Testosterone Forum


Zerozeroseven

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 67
    • View Profile
I'll give you my quick history then answer your questions...My low T started when I was in pretty good health overall.  I assume I had a pretty normal puberty, but it seems like my testicles just decided to shutdown in my early 20s (granted I was still able to father 2 kids).  In this order, I've been on patches, T-injections, T + hCG injections, Arimidex, Clomid and now Tamoxifen.  I felt the best (and most stable) doing T + hCG injections.  I had more energy, brain fog was improving, libido was through the roof, weight loss/maintenance came a lot easier, etc.

I guess in my mind and at my doc's recommendation, I wanted to give SERMs a try just to see if I was still capable of naturally producing my own testosterone.  I would prefer having something stimulate my natural production if at all possible and frequent injections can be inconvenient.  That's just my $.02
Age - 27
Height - 6'4"
Weight - 240 lbs
Symptoms:  Brain/memory fog, low energy, trouble sleeping, weak erections, low libido

2/23/2015
Regimen: 12.5 mg Clomid daily, 2000 IUs Vit D3 daily

Total T 310 (348.0-1197.0)
FSH 2.0 (1.5-12.4 mIU/mL)
LH 1.6 (1.8-12.0 mIU/L)
E2 15.1 (7.6-42.6 pg/mL)
Vitamin D3 20.3 (30-100 ng/mL)
Prolactin 7.0 (2 - 18 ng/mL)
Free Testosterone - 54.4 (25-110)
SHGB - 15.2 (16.5-55.9 nmol/L)
DHT - 20 (30-85 ng/dL)

3/27/15 Labs - 50 mg Clomid/5000 IUs Vitamin D daily

Total T 321 (348.0-1197.0)
FSH 2.3 (1.5-12.4 mIU/mL)
LH 6.9 (1.8-12.0 mIU/L)
E2 28.5 (7.6-42.6 pg/mL)
Vitamin D3 32.3 (30-100 ng/mL)
Prolactin 11.0 (2 - 18 ng/mL)
Free T - 27.3 (25-110)
SHGB - 20.3 (16.5-55.9 nmol/L)
DHT - 22 (30-85 ng/dL)

6/4/15 Labs - 10 mg Tamoxifen/5000 IUs Vitamin D daily

Total T 363 (348.0-1197.0)
FSH 2.2 (1.5-12.4 mIU/mL)
LH 3.8 (1.8-12.0 mIU/L)
Estradiol 24.6 (7.6-42.6 pg/mL)
SHGB - 18.8 (16.5-55.9 nmol/L)
DHT - 26 (30-85 ng/dL)

PeakT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 38446
    • View Profile
    • Peak Testosterone
I'll give you my quick history then answer your questions...My low T started when I was in pretty good health overall.  I assume I had a pretty normal puberty, but it seems like my testicles just decided to shutdown in my early 20s (granted I was still able to father 2 kids).  In this order, I've been on patches, T-injections, T + hCG injections, Arimidex, Clomid and now Tamoxifen.  I felt the best (and most stable) doing T + hCG injections.  I had more energy, brain fog was improving, libido was through the roof, weight loss/maintenance came a lot easier, etc.

I guess in my mind and at my doc's recommendation, I wanted to give SERMs a try just to see if I was still capable of naturally producing my own testosterone.  I would prefer having something stimulate my natural production if at all possible and frequent injections can be inconvenient.  That's just my $.02

If I had it to do all over again, I would have tried something similar.

And, from what I have seen, HRT is the most powerful option in terms of symptom correction for the greatest percentage of men.  I'm certainly not saying it's perfect and there are definite risks, but it has the best outcomes overall imo.  And HCG coupled with it seems to help some men as well.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Peak Testosterone Forum


rainydays

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 78
    • View Profile
Top notch replies.

From my reading I would have assumed that T + HCG seems the most logical decision to make, but it just seems so rarely used amongst the sea of other, more common options.

PeakT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 38446
    • View Profile
    • Peak Testosterone
Top notch replies.

From my reading I would have assumed that T + HCG seems the most logical decision to make, but it just seems so rarely used amongst the sea of other, more common options.

T + HCG is also probably a little protective of the testes shutdown and maintain fertility (usually assuming you do it right) and so on.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Peak Testosterone Forum