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Author Topic: Depression, High Cholesterol and Low T  (Read 81589 times)

anonymous11

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Depression, High Cholesterol and Low T
« on: September 11, 2012, 11:25:31 am »
Peak T: I had e-mailed you about my husbands low t a while back. Last week he had a testosterone check and you wouldn't believe the results. It was less than 100. I cant believe this and I don't what else to do. The doctor prescribed androgel 1.62%. He quit taking andogel 1% a few days before to lower the results on purpose (he took this for 1 year prior).

Anyway, he is currently taking crestor for high cholesterol and I noticed when he started taking it, everything went down hill. Lately I been on him to eat better and work out. He has been doing great. No more ambien, no beers, only wine once in a while. Do you think It be ok to get him to stop taking crestor? I mean if he works out and eats right, where would the plaque come from? I just hate this pill for everything. He is also taking fish oil a few times a day, ginkgo biloba, he drinks cocoa. Also, he takes Zoloft for depression and is still depressed. What are your thoughts?

PeakT

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Re: Depression, High Cholesterol and Low T
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2012, 11:47:42 am »
Peak T: I had e-mailed you about my husbands low t a while back. Last week he had a testosterone check and you wouldn't believe the results. It was less than 100. I cant believe this and I don't what else to do. The doctor prescribed androgel 1.62%. He quit taking andogel 1% a few days before to lower the results on purpose (he took this for 1 year prior).

Anyway, he is currently taking crestor for high cholesterol and I noticed when he started taking it, everything went down hill. Lately I been on him to eat better and work out. He has been doing great. No more ambien, no beers, only wine once in a while. Do you think It be ok to get him to stop taking crestor? I mean if he works out and eats right, where would the plaque come from? I just hate this pill for everything. He is also taking fish oil a few times a day, ginkgo biloba, he drinks cocoa. Also, he takes Zoloft for depression and is still depressed. What are your thoughts?

I've just got a sec, but here are few comments:

--With T that low, he needs to be carefully monitored for bone loss, anemaia, low estradiol, etc.

--Crestor can lower testosterone but I doubt that has much to do with his abyssmally low T.  Imo it probably has most to do with 1) Androgel - see comments below - and 2) the fact he quit it.  When you quit HRT, you have a rebound period usually where your testosterone falls even further.  It usually takes months (from what I have seen) for it to normalize to what it was before.

--Our bodies make all the saturated fat that we need.  When we consume extra amounts in the diet, it will send our cholesterol through the roof, especially with a modern lifestyle.  A Low Fat Diet will dramatically reduce his high cholesterol without using pharaceuticals.  Almost everyone I know who has gone on a true, whole foods Low fat Diet has pushed their cholesterol below 150.

--Please use the search for Androgel above on the forum.  You will see issue after issue with it being poorly absorbed and men's testosterone actually decreasing from being on it.

--Gingko can react with some medications.  Get all supplements checked with your doc.

--As I think we've discussed, low testosterone can definitely contribute and even initiate depression in men.  You know his history, but this is certainly not helping things.  The sword can cut the other way as well:  depression can increase cortisol which will tend to lower testosterone through a variety of pathways.

--You must get your doctor to monitor your husband very regularly.  There is no way he should have testosterone that low after a year of HRT.  This should have been diagnosed and discovered by your doctor within a few months of him giving him Androgel.  Then a different delivery method could have been explored that would definitely boost his testosterone. 

Pellets, injections, (well-written) compounding and patches all usually work from what I have seen.  Arimidex and Clomid would probably work.  The point is that there are many ways to go and your husband needs to be monitored frequently until this a solution is actually achieved.

--If I remember right, your husband has quite severe depression.  SSRI's by themselves have not done well in the studies and have many sexual dysfunction issues as you probably know.  However, I have read that many knowledgeable doctors are now combine them with SNRI's, atypicals, triclyclics, etc. to achieve much better results.  However, all of these require experimentation with the patient, have side effects, etc.

--Be sure that is not even marginally hypothyroid.  Hypothyroidism will put the accelerator on many mental conditions including depression.  It also can lower testosterone.  (Get his Vitamin D checked if you have not as well.)

And I wish you all the best, btw, as this sounds like a very tough situation. 





« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 11:50:02 am by PeakT »
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program.aspx
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

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Re: Depression, High Cholesterol and Low T
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2012, 11:47:42 am »


bubba29

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Re: Depression, High Cholesterol and Low T
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2012, 12:03:33 pm »
first, this is not medical advice, it is only my well educated opinion i am sharing.

25% of the cholesterol in the body is located in the brain.  cholesterol is a precursor to the production of testosterone.  it is no surprise that after using cholesterol lowering drugs called statins that your husband would have the problems he is having.  he is probably having muscle pains and weakness too. 

statins have yet to be proven to reduce heart attacks in people who have not already had a heart attack.  it has been speculated their most effective action is reduction in inflammation.  sugars and grains tend to be inlammatory.  fish and veggies are anti inflammatory.  i would encourage your husband to check for inflammation in a test called a c reactive protein test.  also, i would check his A1C level.  this gives a good picture of blood sugar levels.  diabetes risk is also increased by statins. 

to muddy up the waters even more, "high" cholesterol is a poor indicator for heart disease risk.  another post on this board was by a man who had cholesterol of ~120 and still had several heart attacks.  watch this video to determine whether the risks of taking crestor are worth it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8SSCNaaDcE&feature=player_embedded

you 2 may want to check out a review of an interesting book here.
http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/2012/09/06/book-review-dont-die-early/

PeakT

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Re: Depression, High Cholesterol and Low T
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2012, 12:15:00 pm »

statins have yet to be proven to reduce heart attacks in people who have not already had a heart attack.  it has been speculated their most effective action is reduction in inflammation.  sugars and grains tend to be inlammatory.  fish and veggies are anti inflammatory.  i would encourage your husband to check for inflammation in a test called a c reactive protein test.  also, i would check his A1C level.  this gives a good picture of blood sugar levels.  diabetes risk is also increased by statins. 

Couldn't agree more.

to muddy up the waters even more, "high" cholesterol is a poor indicator for heart disease risk.  another post on this board was by a man who had cholesterol of ~120 and still had several heart attacks.  watch this video to determine whether the risks of taking crestor are worth it:


Couldn't agree less.  Why?  Because men in modern societies generally do not live perfectly.  Many studies have shown that hyperlipidemia is a huge problem as you well know.  So how can you say that high cholesterol is not a problem?  Of course, it is a problem for those with additional issue and most men do have those additional issues.

In addition, cholesterol will be a big problem for those with significant inflammation.  Many, if not most, of the men on this board have inflammation issues.  They are learning to get their inflammation under control but are not there yet.

You are also not cautioning them that an Atikins-esque Diet will actually increase their inflammatory levels:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Atkins_Low_Carb_Diet.aspx

Wonder why Atkins Diets are not nearly as popular any more?  It's because several studies have shown that they elevate your archenemy:  inflammation.

So you're leaving out all the details that could make or break a man's health.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program.aspx
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

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Re: Depression, High Cholesterol and Low T
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2012, 12:15:00 pm »


bubba29

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Re: Depression, High Cholesterol and Low T
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2012, 12:50:45 pm »

statins have yet to be proven to reduce heart attacks in people who have not already had a heart attack.  it has been speculated their most effective action is reduction in inflammation.  sugars and grains tend to be inlammatory.  fish and veggies are anti inflammatory.  i would encourage your husband to check for inflammation in a test called a c reactive protein test.  also, i would check his A1C level.  this gives a good picture of blood sugar levels.  diabetes risk is also increased by statins. 

Couldn't agree more.

to muddy up the waters even more, "high" cholesterol is a poor indicator for heart disease risk.  another post on this board was by a man who had cholesterol of ~120 and still had several heart attacks.  watch this video to determine whether the risks of taking crestor are worth it:


Couldn't agree less.  Why?  Because men in modern societies generally do not live perfectly.  Many studies have shown that hyperlipidemia is a huge problem as you well know.  So how can you say that high cholesterol is not a problem?  Of course, it is a problem for those with additional issue and most men do have those additional issues.

In addition, cholesterol will be a big problem for those with significant inflammation.  Many, if not most, of the men on this board have inflammation issues.  They are learning to get their inflammation under control but are not there yet.

You are also not cautioning them that an Atikins-esque Diet will actually increase their inflammatory levels:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Atkins_Low_Carb_Diet.aspx

Wonder why Atkins Diets are not nearly as popular any more?  It's because several studies have shown that they elevate your archenemy:  inflammation.

So you're leaving out all the details that could make or break a man's health.

i am confused, is it about cholesterol or inflammation.  seems you are eluding that the problem is inflammation.  if that is the case, you are right.  to a large part, sat fats have been replaced by mono and poly unsat fats.  these are in the form of seed oils aka, veggie oils (they are not made out of veggies).  the omega 6 oils are very inflammatory also.

regarding low carb diets....you are relying on old data.  the latest data comparing low fat to low carb is favorable for low carb.  this post reviewed 21 such studies from the last 9 years.


[edited by moderator;  Last warning.  This is the 2nd time you have posted non-authority sites that look like spam.]
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 01:19:50 pm by PeakT »

PeakT

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Re: Depression, High Cholesterol and Low T
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2012, 01:22:22 pm »
Low carb may be favorable in some situations for weight loss per a couple of studies.  However, when you are dropping pounds, it really doesn't matter how you eat because inflammation is reduced automatically as far as health goes.

There is also some evidence that there may be advantages for the super obese:

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa022637
"A Low-Carbohydrate as Compared with a Low-Fat Diet in Severe Obesity"

The problem is once you go back regular calorie levels:  this is when an Atkins Diet gets ugly.

And you keep ignoring this point.  Here is just one of many studies that shows fat slowing down blood flow:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002914996007606
"Effect of a Single High-Fat Meal on Endothelial Function in Healthy Subjects"

Who needs decreased blood flow?  Maybe a half-crazed teenage boy, but that's not 99% of the posters on this board.  The rest of us need increased blood flow!
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 01:30:56 pm by PeakT »
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program.aspx
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

bubba29

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Re: Depression, High Cholesterol and Low T
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2012, 01:35:18 pm »

statins have yet to be proven to reduce heart attacks in people who have not already had a heart attack.  it has been speculated their most effective action is reduction in inflammation.  sugars and grains tend to be inlammatory.  fish and veggies are anti inflammatory.  i would encourage your husband to check for inflammation in a test called a c reactive protein test.  also, i would check his A1C level.  this gives a good picture of blood sugar levels.  diabetes risk is also increased by statins. 

Couldn't agree more.

to muddy up the waters even more, "high" cholesterol is a poor indicator for heart disease risk.  another post on this board was by a man who had cholesterol of ~120 and still had several heart attacks.  watch this video to determine whether the risks of taking crestor are worth it:


Couldn't agree less.  Why?  Because men in modern societies generally do not live perfectly.  Many studies have shown that hyperlipidemia is a huge problem as you well know.  So how can you say that high cholesterol is not a problem?  Of course, it is a problem for those with additional issue and most men do have those additional issues.

In addition, cholesterol will be a big problem for those with significant inflammation.  Many, if not most, of the men on this board have inflammation issues.  They are learning to get their inflammation under control but are not there yet.

You are also not cautioning them that an Atikins-esque Diet will actually increase their inflammatory levels:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Atkins_Low_Carb_Diet.aspx

Wonder why Atkins Diets are not nearly as popular any more?  It's because several studies have shown that they elevate your archenemy:  inflammation.

So you're leaving out all the details that could make or break a man's health.

i am confused, is it about cholesterol or inflammation.  seems you are eluding that the problem is inflammation.  if that is the case, you are right.  to a large part, sat fats have been replaced by mono and poly unsat fats.  these are in the form of seed oils aka, veggie oils (they are not made out of veggies).  the omega 6 oils are very inflammatory also.

regarding low carb diets....you are relying on old data.  the latest data comparing low fat to low carb is favorable for low carb.  this post reviewed 21 such studies from the last 9 years.


[edited by moderator;  Last warning.  This is the 2nd time you have posted non-authority sites that look like spam.]

I am confused, why can you use links like this:
http://www.daphnezuniga.net/environment/mercury.php

but i use a link that compiles 21 clinical trials and it is censored.  i will post data points from the censored post.




blue is low carb, red is low fat.  bigger bar equals greater weight loss.



low carb seems to raise HDL more often.



low carb lowers triglycerides (blood fat) to a much greater extent.

here is an excerpt from the article i could not link:

Low-carb, ketogenic diets are superior to low-fat diets, not only when it comes to weight loss but also in improving pretty much all the major risk factors for western disease.

The results of the studies above all point to low-carb diets being superior when compared to low-fat diets. This is especially prominent for obese individuals, diabetics and those with the metabolic syndrome.

Low-carb diets lead to much more weight loss than the standard of care, low-fat calorie restricted diets, without causing hunger. This is important, because being hungry all the time has a significant effect on quality of life and is hard to sustain.

Low-carb diets also improve other risk factors for disease further than low-fat diets, especially Triglycerides, HDL and LDL pattern.


anonymous11

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Re: Depression, High Cholesterol and Low T
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2012, 01:55:25 pm »
Vitamin D level is great. Do you know if high cholesterol is genetic? What kind of injection? Be specific about other treatment options. Do you mean testim shots? What should he ask the doctor for? Also, should he stop taking androgel? Maybe going down to zero will wake the doctors. In the first post, I stated that he quit taking the androgel for a few days before the test. I don't think it really lowered his levels. Even when he took it for a year, the results are the same. Androgel just doesn't work for him.

bubba29

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Re: Depression, High Cholesterol and Low T
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2012, 02:11:43 pm »
Vitamin D level is great. Do you know if high cholesterol is genetic? What kind of injection? Be specific about other treatment options. Do you mean testim shots? What should he ask the doctor for? Also, should he stop taking androgel? Maybe going down to zero will wake the doctors. In the first post, I stated that he quit taking the androgel for a few days before the test. I don't think it really lowered his levels. Even when he took it for a year, the results are the same. Androgel just doesn't work for him.

for the most part cholesterol levels are not hereditary.  there is something that is called familial hypercholesterolemia which is typically reserved for numbers above 300 that cannot be managed by diet.  it is a pretty rare condition.

genetics is an interesting topic.  do certain activities and consume certain foods and your body will react to this stimulation in a certain way.  we are not hard coded with a destiny to die of cancer or heart disease for example.  this is called epigenetics and it is the bodies way of adjusting to certain stimuli.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 02:18:32 pm by bubba29 »

PeakT

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Re: Depression, High Cholesterol and Low T
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2012, 03:13:34 pm »
Vitamin D level is great. Do you know if high cholesterol is genetic?
Some guys are VERY sensitive to saturated fat.  I have known a number of men with cholsterol in the 250+ range who dramatically lowered cholseterol when they went low fat for example. 

What kind of injection? Be specific about other treatment options. Do you mean testim shots? What should he ask the doctor for?
Here is the key with injections:  you want a doc that will give them (ideally) once per week as you start out high and end up low.  Here are just a few of the many links on the forum and the site about this topic:

http://peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=424.0
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Interview_Testopel_Testosterone_Pellets.aspx
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Compounding_Testosterone.aspx
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Bioidentical_Testosterone.aspx

As far as I know, it's pretty much urologists that do Testopel and not everyone is covered on insurance.

Hope that helps.

Also, should he stop taking androgel? Maybe going down to zero will wake the doctors. In the first post, I stated that he quit taking the androgel for a few days before the test. I don't think it really lowered his levels. Even when he took it for a year, the results are the same. Androgel just doesn't work for him.

Very low testosterone is potentially dangerous.  Again, it can lead to anemia and osteopenia/osteoporosis.  This needs to be looked at asap.

You're right:  it probably didn't lower them much.  I know you did what you thought you had to do but the key is to find a doctor that is knowledgeable not game the system.  Again, not finding fault with you, but I'm just saying that because it's VERY important you find a physician who understands men's health issues.  I'm not seeing a lot of signs that this office does!

By the way, you should not have to even debate whether or not he is hypogonadal.  LabCorb's bottom range is about 360 ng/dl now and the other big labs are in the 260-280 range.  Your husband is hypogonadal by any standard I know of.

Only a physician can and should prescribe medications and I can't give you advice on the subject.  but you definitely have a right to demand why their definition of hypogonadal excludes someone with such low levels, ask for a 2nd opinion, etc.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program.aspx
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

bubba29

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Re: Depression, High Cholesterol and Low T
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2012, 09:50:42 am »
Vitamin D level is great. Do you know if high cholesterol is genetic? What kind of injection? Be specific about other treatment options. Do you mean testim shots? What should he ask the doctor for? Also, should he stop taking androgel? Maybe going down to zero will wake the doctors. In the first post, I stated that he quit taking the androgel for a few days before the test. I don't think it really lowered his levels. Even when he took it for a year, the results are the same. Androgel just doesn't work for him.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1503058626001/

anonymous11

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Re: Depression, High Cholesterol and Low T
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2012, 11:12:05 am »
Bubba:

Just saw this video. Great information and thanks. We all know some of these medications are a waste of time. I am researching zoloft to see how much of a help it is. I have noticed his problems going down hill after taking zoloft.

Peak T:

I just called his first doctor who was initially treating him to make an appointment with him. For some reason, he decided to see this other doctor who sucks. She seems to think 250 testosterone level is ideal for someone his age. Those were her goals, to get him to 250. She said any more would make him aggressive. I will go with him to this appointment. He seems to let them run him around.

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Re: Depression, High Cholesterol and Low T
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2012, 11:26:58 am »
She seems to think 250 testosterone level is ideal for someone his age. Those were her goals, to get him to 250. She said any more would make him aggressive.

That would be hilarious if it wasn't someone's life and health at stake!

So she wants to neuter your husband in order to make him less aggressive.

The irony is that the opposite is true.  Many animal and a couple of human studies have shown that males with abundant testosterone levels are more relaxed and less likely to fight.  Lower testosterone males are actually the ones getting in the fights.

When all your neurotransmitters have been sucked out of your brain, your nitric oxide levels have decreased, your insulin levels are rising, and the internals of your penis are literally withering - well, it can make you just a little bit crabby!
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program.aspx
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

bubba29

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Re: Depression, High Cholesterol and Low T
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2012, 12:02:12 pm »
She seems to think 250 testosterone level is ideal for someone his age. Those were her goals, to get him to 250. She said any more would make him aggressive.


When all your neurotransmitters have been sucked out of your brain, your nitric oxide levels have decreased, your insulin levels are rising, and the internals of your penis are literally withering - well, it can make you just a little bit crabby!

funny you bring up neurotransmitters in the brain because that is one of the functions cholesterol helps with.

Research by an Iowa State University scientist due to be published this month in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences indicates that cholesterol-lowering drugs (statins) may lessen brain function.

The results of the study show that drugs that inhibit the liver from making cholesterol may also keep the brain from making cholesterol, which is vital to efficient brain function.

“If you deprive cholesterol from the brain, then you directly affect the machinery that triggers the release of neurotransmitters,”, said Yeon-Kyun Shin, the lead researcher. “Neurotransmitters affect the data-processing and memory functions. In other words – how smart you are and how well you remember things.”

Cholesterol is abundant in the tissue of the brain and nervous system. Myelin, which covers nerve axons to help conduct the electrical impulses that make movement, sensation, thinking, learning, and remembering possible, is over one fifth cholesterol by weight. Even though the brain only makes up 2% of the body’s weight, it contains 25% of its cholesterol.

We now know that the formation of synapses, or connections between neurons, is directly dependent on the availability of cholesterol.


“If you try to lower the cholesterol by taking medicine that is attacking the machinery of cholesterol synthesis in the liver, that medicine goes to the brain too. And then it reduces the synthesis of cholesterol which is necessary in the brain,” said Shin.

http://chriskresser.com/cholesterol-lowering-drugs-reduce-brain-function

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Re: Depression, High Cholesterol and Low T
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2012, 12:07:27 pm »
He is 33

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Re: Depression, High Cholesterol and Low T
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2012, 12:07:27 pm »