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Author Topic: Testosterone Therapy - Forever?  (Read 19994 times)

anonymous11

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Testosterone Therapy - Forever?
« on: September 22, 2012, 01:06:20 am »
Just an FYI, I have a muscular build, not heavy and not fat. If someone saw me, they wouldn't ever guess something like this of a man in his lower 30s. Will I have to take T injections forever? Please respond to this and my last post.

PeakT

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Re: Testosterone Therapy - Forever?
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2012, 02:15:35 pm »
Your doctor should have discussed all this with you, but HRT is currently a forever thing almost always, because they do not really know yet how to jumpstart testosterone production consistently.  If you have secondary hypogonadism - and, sorry, I can't remember your LH/FSH #s - then, theoretically, you may be able to get jumpstarted. 

However, this just does not seem to happen except in the case of steroid users as far as I know.  One of the reasons, I suspect, is that it is often due to the fact that the hypothalamus is damaged.  But, again, no one is studying the 'why', so solutions will be awhile.

You can go off of HRT, but it is generally painful and takes many months for your body to recover to where it was at and, of course, your back at square one with low testosterone.

Talk to your doc and confirm, but, with the exception of some steroid users, I have not seen men "healed" or "cured" of their low testosterone.  FightLowT's doc actually tried that with him and it did boost his testosterone temporarily but then it fell back down.  If you're interested, you can read one of this first posts on the subject...

NOTE:  You can kind of "shift gears" and go a new form of therapy.  For example, you can go off of HRT and do what some men to preserve testosteorne and fertility, such as Clomid/HCG.  But I don't think that is what you are asking here, i.e. can you quit HRT cold turkey and/or can your body heal itself over time?  One final comment:  men who lose a LOT of weight can in some case turn their testosterone production back on.  But that does not apply to you either.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 05:46:45 am by PeakT »
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

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Re: Testosterone Therapy - Forever?
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2012, 02:15:35 pm »


anonymous11

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Re: Testosterone Therapy - Forever?
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2012, 03:23:13 pm »
WOW....Never is a powerful word. I will continue to do everything I need to do to boost is naturally. I just ran a mile this morning 7.1 minutes at avg. speed of 8.5 miles per hour. Good thing is that I did not get as winded as I did the last couple weeks. I felt great and sweat a lot. I believe the L-Carnitine played a great role helping my run. I like to get my heart rate up really high and oxygen capacity near max rate. I will keep you posted on how  HRT is going and the hurdles I am facing. If my head clears up finally from the heavy weight and fog in there, then I will be extremely happy. My wife said I been acting like a normal person recently which is very good. She is happy so far. Hope my blood work in the end of October goes well.

anonymous11

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Re: Testosterone Therapy - Forever?
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2012, 03:31:16 pm »
If I have to take Testosterone shots my whole life, then will by body get immune to it and need a stronger dosage eventually? From what the doctor told me a 100mg-400mg is the range of dosage per week. Does anyone recommend any other supplements besides Ginkgo Biloba, L-Carnitine, fish oil and vitamin B-6 and B-12?

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: Testosterone Therapy - Forever?
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2012, 03:31:16 pm »


anonymous11

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Re: Testosterone Therapy - Forever?
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2012, 04:54:10 pm »
One more question. What if I break up the 200mg shot into one 100mg shot every 4 days? Instead of having ups and downs, wouldn't that make more sense in order to keep testosterone at a high all the time.

Quincy

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Re: Testosterone Therapy - Forever?
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2012, 07:33:52 pm »
Testosterone C has a half life of 12 days (approx). What that means is it will take you 2-3 months on a weekly shot before the T reaches its peak. So for example the 1st day you had 200mg in your system and it should decline to about 140mg before your next shot. After the 2nd injection, you will be around 334mg in your system and it will bottom out at 236mg. After 2-3 months you will stabilize with a cycling range from about 400 - 600mg. That is way more than what you are at now. But remember, this is not what your serum T levels are, just what is injected into your muscle tissue. Of course the two should be correlated, but serum T levels will vary by each individual.

If I was to guess, the doc will probably have to reduce your dosage, particularly if it makes your T go 1000+.

I was kind of surprised to read your doc said the upper range on weekly dosage can be 400mg. 200mg is a hefty dose from everything I've seen prescibed.

56yo, Pre  T level 239
Previous dosage 180mg T.cypionate weekly BW @ 1056 on 7th day of cycle
Previous dosage 100mg T.cypionate weekly BW @   414 on 7th day of cycle

Current dosage  140mg T.cypionate weekly

PeakT

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Re: Testosterone Therapy - Forever?
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2012, 09:51:17 pm »
If I have to take Testosterone shots my whole life, then will by body get immune to it and need a stronger dosage eventually? From what the doctor told me a 100mg-400mg is the range of dosage per week. Does anyone recommend any other supplements besides Ginkgo Biloba, L-Carnitine, fish oil and vitamin B-6 and B-12?

I have never heard of anyone becoming "immune" to testosterone shots in the long term.
 Of course, what Quincy wrote is true as far as gentle adjustments. 

Also, you could require adjustments over time due to your body own natural production, which is scaled back due to the HRT of course, decreasing due to aging/toxins/endocrine disruptors, etc.

There is something "androgen resistance" and is a medical condition that does not seem to apply to everyday HRT type guy as far as I know.

FAVOR:  You are asking some great questions, but do you mind starting a new topic when it does not tie into the original thread topic, i.e. can you start a new thread on the supplements?  Thx...
« Last Edit: September 22, 2012, 09:53:43 pm by PeakT »
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

anonymous11

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Re: Testosterone Therapy - Forever?
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2012, 02:10:01 pm »
Will do. Writing in forums is new to me but everytime I have an off subject, I will open a new session. Thanks for the responses.

anonymous11

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Re: Testosterone Therapy - Forever?
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2012, 02:24:01 pm »
So if my T levels eventually get to over 800+ then what will the doctor most likely do? Will they ask me to lower dosage? I feel great with the 200mg dosage so far. I am going to the gym in the morning. Hope to be stronger than last week. I am interested to see my levels at the end of the month. I will be shocked if they are 10X the amount of 72 last month.

Quincy

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Re: Testosterone Therapy - Forever?
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2012, 03:15:26 pm »
Well, I can only speculate what will happen but the dosage should be more involved than just the actual T level. Everyone is different and have different reactions to the amount of T in their blood. Too much can also make you feel like crap. So there is a sweet spot that you and your doc will have to determine based on not only your T level but how you feel and perhaps other serum readings such as estradiol, Free T, etc. It is a balancing act trying to get all systems in a healthy balance.

It is probably a good idea to make notes of anything you feel as the weeks roll by. Getting in touch with your body is always a good idea. Something i need to practice a lot more myself.

In all likelihood you will notice different things changing over time. Many of the affects of low T can take several months to work themselves back to a normal healthy function. So you need to have patience and just go with the flow.
56yo, Pre  T level 239
Previous dosage 180mg T.cypionate weekly BW @ 1056 on 7th day of cycle
Previous dosage 100mg T.cypionate weekly BW @   414 on 7th day of cycle

Current dosage  140mg T.cypionate weekly

PeakT

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Re: Testosterone Therapy - Forever?
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2012, 03:39:14 pm »
So if my T levels eventually get to over 800+ then what will the doctor most likely do? Will they ask me to lower dosage? I feel great with the 200mg dosage so far. I am going to the gym in the morning. Hope to be stronger than last week. I am interested to see my levels at the end of the month. I will be shocked if they are 10X the amount of 72 last month.

Quincy had a good answer as far as general philosophy.  If you are too high, you over-aromatize and start to do worse. 

 But I do want to comment that at the beginning of the injection period you probably will go over 1000.  You then taper off.  So it's more a matter of your average testosterone. 

Again, it's important to have a doctor with some experience.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

anonymous11

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Re: Testosterone Therapy - Forever?
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2012, 07:11:18 pm »
Thanks again both of you. I monitor my feelings and document them. As time goes on, I will have a better understanding where I am headed. The idea of a weekly injection FOREVER at the age of 33 is hard to comprehend.

Quincy

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Re: Testosterone Therapy - Forever?
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2012, 07:47:40 pm »
As time goes on, I will have a better understanding where I am headed. The idea of a weekly injection FOREVER at the age of 33 is hard to comprehend.

Well, I feel the same way as you... about shots the rest of my life. But there are a few possibilities that may come into play in the future.

There is another inject-able T called testosterone undecanoate. Been approved in Europe and several countries around the world. It's still waiting approval in the US. Instead of every week like TC, the TU is taken every 10-14 weeks, depending on the individual. 4 or 5 shots a year would be great. Pellets are also low maintenance 3 or 4 implantations a year. But that is a lot more invasive and quite expensive. Even with my insurance, I have to pay the first $2000 and then 20% of the cost. I think it is about $800 per procedure. It would cost me over $2000/year. I'll stick with the shots for now.

Also there will probably be an ever increasing number of new delivery methods over the coming years, so our choices will improve hopefully.

And lastly, at some point they may figure out how to repair or jumpstart our natural T as science continues to learn more about this affliction.
56yo, Pre  T level 239
Previous dosage 180mg T.cypionate weekly BW @ 1056 on 7th day of cycle
Previous dosage 100mg T.cypionate weekly BW @   414 on 7th day of cycle

Current dosage  140mg T.cypionate weekly

PeakT

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Re: Testosterone Therapy - Forever?
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2012, 10:20:35 pm »
Thanks again both of you. I monitor my feelings and document them. As time goes on, I will have a better understanding where I am headed. The idea of a weekly injection FOREVER at the age of 33 is hard to comprehend.

I understand what you are saying, but there is an "epidemic" of low testosterone now in our Western societies probably for a variety of reasons.  So I guess all I'm saying is that you are definitely not alone.

And, again, they may come up with some nice solutions in the future.  For example, for those who are primary, they may be able to use stem cell therapy to regenerate Leydig cells.  But, for now, we have to just crudely add back in what is missing. 

People with thyroid dysfunction are similar. 
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

anonymous11

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Re: Testosterone Therapy - Forever?
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2012, 10:29:14 pm »
The future options sounds very promising, however, we have to deal with today. The FDA takes a lot longer than many other countries to approved new drugs. Either way, I am happy my 2nd opinion doctor got me on TC. I am looking forward to Wednesday morning for my 2nd injection.

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: Testosterone Therapy - Forever?
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2012, 10:29:14 pm »