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Author Topic: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors  (Read 25324 times)

Tfan

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2014, 08:31:11 pm »
PeakT, y the first thing i just fournd in google is this.
A new study was recently published showing that 3g/d of fish oil in patients with metabolic syndrome increased LDL levels and insulin resistance. :o
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20694407
Why is everything so contraictory when it comes to science?
Quote

Metabolic syndrome (MS) is a cluster of factors which favors the development of cardiovascular diseases. Previous studies have shown that polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) can improve some of these factors. This study aimed to evaluate the effect of fish oil on glucose and lipid profiles, oxidative stress and total antioxidant capacity (TRAP) in patients with MS.
SUBJECTS AND METHODS:

We conducted a clinical trial in 40 patients with the MS (20 controls and 20 patients receiving 3 g/day of PUFAs).
SUBJECTS AND RESULTS:


The group that received treatment showed a significant decrease in levels of triglycerides and increased in TRAP, but they had a significant increase in LDL, glucose and insulin resistance.
CONCLUSION:

We conclude that intake of fish oil resulted in decreased levels of triglycerides and increased the TRAP of patients with MS; however, increased LDL levels and insulin resistance, were observed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8911273

  Once read an article saying that  Fish oil is highly vulnerable to oxidative damage and should be accompanied by taking antioxidants.

... and it is a 2010 study!!! Wonder what is in it and how they did it. My experience trying to reproduce HDL increase and LDL decrease using protocols in studies is dismal. I OFTEN get opposite results and my learning is nothing different from what we ve experienced a number of times here on this forum... what may work for a group of men may not work for others. It is such a complex system of variables.

Fish oil is well known for increasing HDL and some men respond extremely well to it for this purpose. Just recently we learned Clarence Bass increasing his HDL to an amaing 86 level and he attributes it to his increase in fish intake. He does not say anything about his LDL though.
Age 48
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PeakT

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2014, 09:25:15 pm »
It is complex and HDL is particularly complex.  It turns out that you can increase HDL but it can become "dysfunctional" and pro-oxidant and it does not transport like it is supposed to, etc. 

Dr. Gould has a fantastic discussion of it in the back of him book Heal Your Heart based on his clinical experience with regressing plaque.  Highly recommend reading that section - it answered a lot of questions for me.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2014, 09:25:15 pm »


RM

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2014, 08:27:49 pm »
 PeakT, do you have any information that avocados also negatively affect arterial plaque?
 After I read the thread I excluded any oil completely from my diet. But I haven't found any info on  negative effects of avocados yet.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 01:23:26 am by RM »

PeakT

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2014, 09:01:39 pm »
PeakT, do you have any information that avocados also negatively effect arterial plaque?
 After I read the thread I excluded any oil completely from my diet. But I haven't found any info on  negative effects of avocados yet.

Avacado oil has a similar profile to olive oil and so comments on olive oil probably apply.

Now I want to emphasize that, if you want some fat in your diet, the key thing to focus on is your numbers and then some sort of monitoring system to make sure it's working.  In other words, Dr. Davis would allow some olive oil and avocado oil in his plan but the key thing is that you are monitoring HDL, LDL, triglycerides, Lp(a), VLDL and the other key markers outlined in his book and others.  It's all about chemistry, eh?
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2014, 09:01:39 pm »


brokenHeart

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2015, 04:36:17 am »
Hey TimeZones,
It seems you have concluded that diet & exercise did it for you. So what was the original diagnosis if any? At 33 I doubt you had organic impotence unless you had been a couch potato for years, were you? (Isn't NO deficiency considered organic) Did you pull any blood tests before and after? May it was psychogenic and the good feelings and confidence caused by exercise, etc cured it?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 04:54:08 am by brokenHeart »

dubidoo

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2015, 10:21:10 am »
5. Powerful antioxidants temporarily lessen ED, and then make it worse (e.g. tart cherry extract, pycnogenol)

Can you tell a bit more about it? For example, how long before it started making it worse?
I'm about to receive my pycnogenol, this post makes me a little bit worried.

factor5a

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2015, 03:10:55 pm »
Well, great story TimeZones.  Look if the erections and blood pressure are in good shape, then the changes you have made are going to make a huge difference to your long term health needless to say.

One caution:  make sure you test your post-prandial blood sugar.  When you eat even a medium amount of carbs at a meal, you want to do that.  It is very unlikely with all your exercising that that is an issue, but I would just double check.  You can get the testing stuff at Walmart for dirt cheap.

And, yes, it's very interesting, but very few guys will do what you do above.  I have always found that to be the case, though, that I simply could not handle fat. 

Quick q's for you:

1.  How old are you?  (I don't think you said that.)

2.  Are you going to get an IMT or Heart Scan done?

3.  Do you consume any nuts or seeds?

And it's nice to see someone with a very similar to story to my own.  Well, I haven't got off the Cialis yet, totally, but I think you know what I mean.  A low fat, whole foods diet is what got me back into the game (coupled with HRT).

Peak,

Do you really think you can get off Cialis ?

I mean, Timezones is 20 years younger than you,that is a huge difference. I agree that diet and exercise can make a great difference but I don't think will do miracles and more if you are already on a high NO and low fat diet.

54 years

HRT  protocol

62 mgs of Sustenon weekly one IM shot
600 IU HGC  weekly divided in two SQ shots
6 click of  HGH daily
1 ml of Progesteron cream daily
Half pill of Arimidex once a week

Last lab tests

Progesterone,
1.50 ng/mL                                       0.21 - 1.54

Estradiol,
26 pg/mL                                              5 - 66

Testosterone Total

* 989.5 ng/dL                               142.0 - 923.0    ;D

Testosterone Libre (free)

 * 31.0 ng/dL                                     4.0 - 30.0      ;D

Testosterone Biodisponible

* 645.0 ng/dL                                        98.0 - 590.0

Sex Hormone Binding Globulin

 23.4 nmol/L                                              11.2 - 78.1

Alb˙min

 3.8 g/dL                                                  3.0 - 5.0

PeakT

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2015, 04:37:13 pm »

Peak,

Do you really think you can get off Cialis ?

I mean, Timezones is 20 years younger than you,that is a huge difference. I agree that diet and exercise can make a great difference but I don't think will do miracles and more if you are already on a high NO and low fat diet.

I don't know.  However, I suspect that I have become dependent on them.  To be honest, I would need my wife to go on a vacation for about a month for me to try it out.  I would need to go off cold turkey I believe and let the enzyme activity reset.  It would be an ugly month, but would be worth the try.  In the meantime, I am stuck on them as after about five or six days, morning erections greatly diminish, etc.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

factor5a

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2015, 04:57:25 pm »

Peak,

Do you really think you can get off Cialis ?

I mean, Timezones is 20 years younger than you,that is a huge difference. I agree that diet and exercise can make a great difference but I don't think will do miracles and more if you are already on a high NO and low fat diet.

I don't know.  However, I suspect that I have become dependent on them.  To be honest, I would need my wife to go on a vacation for about a month for me to try it out.  I would need to go off cold turkey I believe and let the enzyme activity reset.  It would be an ugly month, but would be worth the try.  In the meantime, I am stuck on them as after about five or six days, morning erections greatly diminish, etc.

 :D
You scared me at the begining of your parragraph, when you said about your wife !! But then I understood and made me remember a joke. I wish they are not prohibited in this forum. Anyway I'll take a chance.

This guy went to the doctor and told him he was having erection problems ,so the doctor told him , "no problem, take this blue pill half an our before you have sex and you will be ok "
The guy left and the doctor never saw him again until they ran across in the street one day,so the doctor ask him " Hey I never saw you again, did you try the pill I gave you that day?" the patient said " No, I didn't because my wife went out that day and he left me alone in the house with the girl we have that help us with the cleaning of the house."  the doctor said " And why didn't you try the pill with this girl ?"  Patient said, "No, with her I don't need the pill "  ;D


Anyway, I don't think you will have a problem with that daily dose, and you know what ? We need to live life, I prefer to die 10 years earlier but after enyoing the pleasures of life than trying to live "healthy" always. I hope I'm  clear.
54 years

HRT  protocol

62 mgs of Sustenon weekly one IM shot
600 IU HGC  weekly divided in two SQ shots
6 click of  HGH daily
1 ml of Progesteron cream daily
Half pill of Arimidex once a week

Last lab tests

Progesterone,
1.50 ng/mL                                       0.21 - 1.54

Estradiol,
26 pg/mL                                              5 - 66

Testosterone Total

* 989.5 ng/dL                               142.0 - 923.0    ;D

Testosterone Libre (free)

 * 31.0 ng/dL                                     4.0 - 30.0      ;D

Testosterone Biodisponible

* 645.0 ng/dL                                        98.0 - 590.0

Sex Hormone Binding Globulin

 23.4 nmol/L                                              11.2 - 78.1

Alb˙min

 3.8 g/dL                                                  3.0 - 5.0

PeakT

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2015, 05:44:59 pm »

Peak,

Do you really think you can get off Cialis ?

I mean, Timezones is 20 years younger than you,that is a huge difference. I agree that diet and exercise can make a great difference but I don't think will do miracles and more if you are already on a high NO and low fat diet.

I don't know.  However, I suspect that I have become dependent on them.  To be honest, I would need my wife to go on a vacation for about a month for me to try it out.  I would need to go off cold turkey I believe and let the enzyme activity reset.  It would be an ugly month, but would be worth the try.  In the meantime, I am stuck on them as after about five or six days, morning erections greatly diminish, etc.

 :D
You scared me at the begining of your parragraph, when you said about your wife !! But then I understood and made me remember a joke. I wish they are not prohibited in this forum. Anyway I'll take a chance.

This guy went to the doctor and told him he was having erection problems ,so the doctor told him , "no problem, take this blue pill half an our before you have sex and you will be ok "
The guy left and the doctor never saw him again until they ran across in the street one day,so the doctor ask him " Hey I never saw you again, did you try the pill I gave you that day?" the patient said " No, I didn't because my wife went out that day and he left me alone in the house with the girl we have that help us with the cleaning of the house."  the doctor said " And why didn't you try the pill with this girl ?"  Patient said, "No, with her I don't need the pill "  ;D


Anyway, I don't think you will have a problem with that daily dose, and you know what ? We need to live life, I prefer to die 10 years earlier but after enyoing the pleasures of life than trying to live "healthy" always. I hope I'm  clear.

Lol.  Pretty funny there guy!

Yeah and a perfect example of that is caloric restriction.  Yeah, it might add 10 years to your life, but I don't think it's worth it...
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

factor5a

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2015, 10:44:54 pm »
 ;D
54 years

HRT  protocol

62 mgs of Sustenon weekly one IM shot
600 IU HGC  weekly divided in two SQ shots
6 click of  HGH daily
1 ml of Progesteron cream daily
Half pill of Arimidex once a week

Last lab tests

Progesterone,
1.50 ng/mL                                       0.21 - 1.54

Estradiol,
26 pg/mL                                              5 - 66

Testosterone Total

* 989.5 ng/dL                               142.0 - 923.0    ;D

Testosterone Libre (free)

 * 31.0 ng/dL                                     4.0 - 30.0      ;D

Testosterone Biodisponible

* 645.0 ng/dL                                        98.0 - 590.0

Sex Hormone Binding Globulin

 23.4 nmol/L                                              11.2 - 78.1

Alb˙min

 3.8 g/dL                                                  3.0 - 5.0

rainydays

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2015, 05:22:59 pm »
Amazing how diversely different we all are.

I am just the opposite. I NEED healthy fats, or my drive and erections plummet to hell. I also need a few carbs for basic sanity.

But I have a mate that's just like you. Fats destroy him. Make him super pudgy and kill everything positive about him. He has to eat like a rabbit - everything in the garden - just to stay tip top.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 04:52:39 am by rainydays »

PeakT

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2015, 06:12:43 pm »
Amazing how diversely different we all are.

I am just the opposite. I NEED healthy fats, or my drive and erections plummet to hell. I also need a few carbs for basic sanity.

But I have a mate that's just like you. Fats destroy him. Make him super pudgy and kill everything positive about him. He has to eat like a rabbit - everything in the garden - just to stay tip top.

Well, wait, everyone needs fats.  I don't think any expert disagrees with that.  It's just how much fat we need.  For example, I consume 3-4 grams or even more of saturated fat per day.  And, as you know, I eat a lot of omega-3's.  Just want to clarify that.

But, yes, you're right:  I don't do well, for example, with several grams of saturated fat in one meal.  I try to keep saturated fat less than a gram per meal or snack.

Like I always say:  I don't really care how you eat as long as you are meeting your cardiovascular numbers and not increasing plaque.  Some guys can eat more fat and still have good LDL-P and apoB numbers for example.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

rainydays

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2015, 04:56:46 am »
10-4. I should have clarified 'a lot of'. :)


TimeZones

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2015, 02:35:46 am »
5. Powerful antioxidants temporarily lessen ED, and then make it worse (e.g. tart cherry extract, pycnogenol)

Can you tell a bit more about it? For example, how long before it started making it worse?
I'm about to receive my pycnogenol, this post makes me a little bit worried.

I'm working on a master's thesis related to a receptor I believe plays a role in ED, and from my research, oxidation of receptor subunits affect its function; so, too many anti-oxidants may alter normal functions.

I wouldn't want to speculate any further than that as I don't know enough receptor function versus chemistry to speak definitively, but I am in the process of investigating it and will reply when I know more.

If you're curious, oxidation causes calcium leak from this receptor, and calcium causes smooth muscle contraction and therefore no relaxation, so this would explain how oxidants/anti-oxidants play a role in ED development. I'm not sure where else anti-oxidants would exert their effects on the erectile function pathway/spectrum, but it would be worth researching things like "phosphodiesterase oxidation" to find out.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 02:47:17 am by TimeZones »

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2015, 02:35:46 am »