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Author Topic: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors  (Read 25328 times)

TimeZones

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How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« on: December 21, 2014, 09:47:32 pm »
So, I quit cialis and viagra cold turkey in early August 2014; it's now late December 2014.

ED started 5 years ago. I was on as much as 20 mg cialis every other day for about 3 years.

After quitting ED meds, I've slowly found what supplements and foods aggravate ED.

In brief, here's what I've found to help my ED:
1. Avoiding oils and fats
2. Avoiding processed foods
3. Eating a completely plant based diet with limited fatty fish sporadically (3 times per week) and ~6 egg whites per day
4. Juicing (celery, spring mix, spinach, kale, chard, beets, any/all types of vegetables)
5. Powerful antioxidants temporarily lessen ED, and then make it worse (e.g. tart cherry extract, pycnogenol)
6. Lots of water/staying hydrated
7. No processed carbohydrates

I have experimented with garlic and vitamin C, but in general, L-citrulline is the best supplement along with plenty of WALKING (2 hours per day). Cacao and ginseng are good, too.

Otherwise, I can somewhat consistently get a decent erection that requires effort/persistence to stay erect, but they fade fast. Still, I have been using daytime erection quality and nighttime erection presence as a gauge for what works and what doesn't.

Again, the BIG THINGS you want to AVOID are:
FATS (saturated, cholesterol-rich, omega 6's)
STAYING SEDENTARY
BAD DIET (anything that isn't whole foods and plant based IS POISON)

The BIG THINGS you want TO DO are:
WALK (at least an hour per day)
JUICE (beets, celery, greens, ginger, etc)
EAT HEALTHY (plant based, low/no fat, unprocessed, moderate/low carb)

I may transition to 2.5 mg of cialis per day at some point to see what happens as PeakT and many others do. But for now, I'm maintaining a decent personal sex life without meds for the first time in 5 years.

I also see a lot of people using garlic on here. You can try raw garlic, but kyolic aged garlic extract seems to be better in some ways. Cayenne pepper is good, too.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 02:28:44 pm by TimeZones »

PeakT

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2014, 12:43:17 am »
Hey, you da Man!  I really appreciate the post.  Yeah, I have not been able to get off of Cialis.  But your post gives me post, so thanks for the story.

You know very interesting about the exercise.  I have noticed this makes an incredible difference.  But I am going to ask a question that I am sure others are wondering:

"How in the heck do you find two hours per day to walk?"

and

"How do you make it productive or do you?"

I have my own answer to the last question, but I'd love to hear from you.  Just today I walked for an hour and 10 minutes and I usually get about 15,000 steps per day, so I'm reasonably active.  But I'd like to figure out how to do what you are doing.

Also, are you totally a raw foods guy? 

And one last thing:  sounds like we are going down very similar pathways.  The only thing is that I am still too sendentary from having two jobs requiring me to stare into a computer screen.  I am able to exercise 50-60 minutes per day day, though, rain or shine.  Maybe if I do that last step I can get off of the those bad boys. 

I am trying a temporary experiment with Korean Ginseng.  I had the same experience as you where with Pomegranate and anti-inflammatories:  they seem like might have a rebound.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 12:46:59 am by PeakT »
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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2014, 12:43:17 am »


TimeZones

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2014, 03:59:53 am »
Hey, you da Man!  I really appreciate the post.  Yeah, I have not been able to get off of Cialis.  But your post gives me post, so thanks for the story.

You know very interesting about the exercise.  I have noticed this makes an incredible difference.  But I am going to ask a question that I am sure others are wondering:

"How in the heck do you find two hours per day to walk?"

and

"How do you make it productive or do you?"

I have my own answer to the last question, but I'd love to hear from you.  Just today I walked for an hour and 10 minutes and I usually get about 15,000 steps per day, so I'm reasonably active.  But I'd like to figure out how to do what you are doing.

Also, are you totally a raw foods guy? 

And one last thing:  sounds like we are going down very similar pathways.  The only thing is that I am still too sendentary from having two jobs requiring me to stare into a computer screen.  I am able to exercise 50-60 minutes per day day, though, rain or shine.  Maybe if I do that last step I can get off of the those bad boys. 

I am trying a temporary experiment with Korean Ginseng.  I had the same experience as you where with Pomegranate and anti-inflammatories:  they seem like might have a rebound.

Thanks for the good words. All I can say is that while the last 4-5 months haven't been a great time, I've learned a lot about how my body reacts to foods, activities, and lifestyle changes now that I'm not under the illusion that PDE5i's (viagra, cialis, etc) will cure everything; I used to think that taking PDE5i's would -- and should -- cure ED while buttering up foods, adding olive oil to everything I ate because "it's a healthy oil," having saturated fats (e.g. cheese, animal products), etc etc then wondering why 10+ mg of cialis wouldn't work. Now, I see that my diet is more linked to my ED than anything else.

As far as walking goes, I've always been into exercise and have found a way for it one way or another. My productivity might suffer in the short term, but when I orient my day the right way, things eventually work out.

I'm not into raw foods so much as I avoid anything processed or artificial. I eat minimal sodium, no preservatives, colors, dyes, or bleached products. The only thing I eat out of a bag are frozen, pre-cooked black beans and corn.

And you know what's funny? The diet I'm on now is exactly what Jack LaLanne and Dr. Esselstyn (google "Forks Over Knives") preached/have been preaching for years. I only found out that my diet mirrored Jack's after googling the name on my juicer (it's a Jack LaLanne brand juicer). Anyhow, moderate fish, 5-6 egg whites per day, and plants with more plants and pounds more juiced vegetables is the way to go. Meat is garbage.

Anyhow, being stuck with cialis is lousy. Believe me, I know. Since I haven't been seeing anybody in the last year, I have no idea whether I'd be up for being completely unassisted.

Thanks for hosting this site, by the way. As far as I know, it's the most informative compendium of knowledge and research on ED and men's health on the internet.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 04:08:23 am by TimeZones »

PeakT

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2014, 01:20:56 pm »
Well, great story TimeZones.  Look if the erections and blood pressure are in good shape, then the changes you have made are going to make a huge difference to your long term health needless to say.

One caution:  make sure you test your post-prandial blood sugar.  When you eat even a medium amount of carbs at a meal, you want to do that.  It is very unlikely with all your exercising that that is an issue, but I would just double check.  You can get the testing stuff at Walmart for dirt cheap.

And, yes, it's very interesting, but very few guys will do what you do above.  I have always found that to be the case, though, that I simply could not handle fat. 

Quick q's for you:

1.  How old are you?  (I don't think you said that.)

2.  Are you going to get an IMT or Heart Scan done?

3.  Do you consume any nuts or seeds?

And it's nice to see someone with a very similar to story to my own.  Well, I haven't got off the Cialis yet, totally, but I think you know what I mean.  A low fat, whole foods diet is what got me back into the game (coupled with HRT).
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If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2014, 01:20:56 pm »


HouKN98

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2014, 08:12:00 pm »
And another quick question:

Since you eat 5-6 egg whites a day, do you buy ~4 dozen eggs every week?  or do you use egg substitutes?
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TimeZones

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2014, 09:47:33 pm »
Well, great story TimeZones.  Look if the erections and blood pressure are in good shape, then the changes you have made are going to make a huge difference to your long term health needless to say.

One caution:  make sure you test your post-prandial blood sugar.  When you eat even a medium amount of carbs at a meal, you want to do that.  It is very unlikely with all your exercising that that is an issue, but I would just double check.  You can get the testing stuff at Walmart for dirt cheap.

And, yes, it's very interesting, but very few guys will do what you do above.  I have always found that to be the case, though, that I simply could not handle fat. 

Quick q's for you:

1.  How old are you?  (I don't think you said that.)

2.  Are you going to get an IMT or Heart Scan done?

3.  Do you consume any nuts or seeds?

And it's nice to see someone with a very similar to story to my own.  Well, I haven't got off the Cialis yet, totally, but I think you know what I mean.  A low fat, whole foods diet is what got me back into the game (coupled with HRT).

Thanks for the info. I'll look into testing my post-prandial blood sugar soon.

Fat is definitely responsible for aggravation of ED; especially oils of all types.

About your questions, answers are as follows:
1. Age: 33
2. IMT/Heart Scan: Not planned. I will post results if I have any after an upcoming, more in depth physical.
3. Nut/Seed consumption: yes. I eat chia seeds and peanuts from time to time, but avoid other nuts that have been reported to help ED (walnuts and pistachios).

And to the other poster that asked about egg whites, I buy bags of hard boiled eggs from Trader Joes for $3/bag of 6. I avoid packaged egg white liquid after being less than impressed by 4 brands I experimented with.

DdR

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2014, 04:04:04 pm »
I also see a lot of people using garlic on here. Do not use raw garlic. Use kyolic aged garlic extract and cayenne extract with ester C if you're going to go that route.


Why?  I've only noticed a difference with real garlic.  If I eat it regularly (I don't now that I'm engaged), I would lose fat and kill any type of cold forming. 

Have you tried pomegranates yet?

You were on Cialis starting at the age of 28?  Do you mind sharing why?  It appears that you were in good shape for being a cyclist all those years. 
Age=35; Weight = 175lbs; Height=5'11"

Lab results 10/13/2013: Total test = 357 ng/dL; Free test = 68.0 pg/mL; SHBG = 31 nmol/L; TSH = 3.19 uIU/mL; Vitamin D = 29 ng/mL

Lab results 4/21/2014: Total test = 465 ng/dL; Free test = 40.45 pg/mL; SHBG = 39.8 nmol/L;
TSH = 3.57 uIU/mL; Vitamin D = Not pulled

Lab results 8/3/2014: Total test = 439 ng/dL; Free test = 21.8 pg/mL; SHBG = Not pulled; TSH = 3.79 uIU/mL; Vitamin D = 23 ng/mL

roadglide

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2014, 05:25:34 pm »
I didn't know they sell eggs already boiled.  Is it the whites only?  Organic grass fed?

I was wonder why not fresh garlic either?

RM

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2014, 05:39:41 am »
TimeZones, in what time did you feel improvements after you stopped consuming oil or even avocados or walnuts?
I always thought some oil or avocados should help with testosterone , inflammation and cardiovascular system overall.

PeakT

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2014, 07:43:54 am »
TimeZones, in what time did you feel improvements after you stopped consuming oil or even avocados or walnuts?
I always thought some oil or avocados should help with testosterone , inflammation and cardiovascular system overall.

Here is the counterargument:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/803568

"Dr. Black: What about the Mediterranean diet? What do we know about that?

Dr. Vogel: That is a very hot topic right now. The PREDIMED study[3] from Barcelona included 7500 patients and showed about a 30% reduction in cardiovascular events with a Mediterranean diet. Of interest, I think they wanted to prove that it was the olive oil that was beneficial, but they got the same results whether participants consumed high amounts of olive oil or high amounts of mixed nuts. So they did not show what I think they intended to show.

We have looked at olive oil.[4] We found that olive oil may be not as bad as lard, but it does depress endothelial function, and that is because it also has high saturated fat."

Also, see this:

https://www.pritikin.com/your-health/healthy-living/eating-right/1103-whats-wrong-with-olive-oil.html#.VJpuGF4ALI
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

TimeZones

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2014, 04:23:43 pm »
Just google jack lalanne's diet, dr esselstyn caldwell's research on circulation following fatty food intake and atherosclerosis/arterial/venous plaque removal, etc and you'll see that endothelial function is tied to low fat intake, plant based diets, and staying active.

RM

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2014, 05:22:51 pm »
PeakT, TimeZones,
I just wish I have read this earlier. Damn! This is how otherwise very healthy diet and lifestyle changes and all that discipline it requires could be ruined by one single product - olive oil. And honestly I do not even like olive oil. I just though it was supposed to help and not harm.

PeakT, thanks for the links, very convincing.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 05:26:12 pm by RM »

RM

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2014, 06:02:55 pm »
I only hope this does not apply to Flaxseed oil and Omega 3 oil.

PeakT

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2014, 06:51:20 pm »
I only hope this does not apply to Flaxseed oil and Omega 3 oil.

Flaxseed is anti-atherosclerotic per many studies.  See this link:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Flaxseed_Benefits

And megadosing fish oil is a strategy of Dr. Davis to reverse plaque. 

So, on that side of the equation, you should be good as far as I know.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

RM

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2014, 07:16:46 pm »
PeakT, y the first thing i just fournd in google is this.
A new study was recently published showing that 3g/d of fish oil in patients with metabolic syndrome increased LDL levels and insulin resistance. :o
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20694407
Why is everything so contraictory when it comes to science?
Quote

Metabolic syndrome (MS) is a cluster of factors which favors the development of cardiovascular diseases. Previous studies have shown that polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) can improve some of these factors. This study aimed to evaluate the effect of fish oil on glucose and lipid profiles, oxidative stress and total antioxidant capacity (TRAP) in patients with MS.
SUBJECTS AND METHODS:

We conducted a clinical trial in 40 patients with the MS (20 controls and 20 patients receiving 3 g/day of PUFAs).
SUBJECTS AND RESULTS:


The group that received treatment showed a significant decrease in levels of triglycerides and increased in TRAP, but they had a significant increase in LDL, glucose and insulin resistance.
CONCLUSION:

We conclude that intake of fish oil resulted in decreased levels of triglycerides and increased the TRAP of patients with MS; however, increased LDL levels and insulin resistance, were observed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8911273

  Once read an article saying that  Fish oil is highly vulnerable to oxidative damage and should be accompanied by taking antioxidants.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 07:22:45 pm by RM »

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Re: How I Got Off of the PDE5 Inhibitors
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2014, 07:16:46 pm »