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Author Topic: Nolvadex monotherapy - baseline blood results + 8 weeks later  (Read 4142 times)

FinnMcCool

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Hi everyone,

After some previous discussion in another thread and with my Doctor, I decided to commence 10mg Nolvadex/Tamoxifan therapy.  This is because I want to maintain fertility, and something to try before going HCG and other more involved interventions.

Here are my baseline and results about 8 weeks later. 



Note - Australian date formats and units of measure.


Surprisingly, my E2 went through the roof.  This is way to high.  The sweet spot (in pmol/L) is 70-100.  Mine is 223.

In general, I am very sensitive to meds, which is why I was only on 10mg ED (vs 20mg ED).  My Doctor explained that even though Nolva is a E2 blocker, my body responds by making more E2 and therefore there are larger amounts in my blood (although the receptor is blocked).  This originally confused us both as I expected a decrease in E2 (similar to Arimidex has done for me previously, as it stops it being converted in the first place).

As my E2 and T levels were too high, he suggested I half my dosage again and re-test in 4-6 weeks. 

Also of note, my low Progest results.  I don't know what to make of this?

My symptoms are lack of drive and low libido (same as original).

All comments read and appreciated.

FMc.

Cataceous

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Re: Nolvadex monotherapy - baseline blood results + 8 weeks later
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2017, 11:15:37 am »
...  My Doctor explained that even though Nolva is a E2 blocker, my body responds by making more E2 and therefore there are larger amounts in my blood (although the receptor is blocked).  This originally confused us both as I expected a decrease in E2 (similar to Arimidex has done for me previously, as it stops it being converted in the first place).
...

I'd find it concerning if my doctor didn't understand the difference between a SERM and an AI.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 59, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 154 lbs
Protocol: 2.8 mg T propionate subQ qd, 3.7 mg T enanthate qd, 20 mcg GnRH subQ 5.25x/d, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
Test results (peak): TT: 780 ng/dL, E2: 40 pg/mL, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG 32 nMol/L

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Re: Nolvadex monotherapy - baseline blood results + 8 weeks later
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2017, 11:15:37 am »


FinnMcCool

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Re: Nolvadex monotherapy - baseline blood results + 8 weeks later
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2017, 11:46:57 am »
Welcome to Australia :S

Unfortunately we're a bit more conservative and doctors don't have as much experience. I also suspect he doesn't have many guys on Nolva mono. On the plus side he's open minded and keen to help.

Thankfully this forum and its members are a great resource.

Question - how does one go about measuring how much E2 my body is really using with a SERM?

Cataceous

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Re: Nolvadex monotherapy - baseline blood results + 8 weeks later
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2017, 06:57:36 pm »
Are you asking how much E2 your body is metabolizing vs how much is excreted?

I'm surprised by the big jump you saw in SHBG. That's around 60% higher. Hopefully it will come down with the lower dose, as 81 nmol/L is quite high.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 59, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 154 lbs
Protocol: 2.8 mg T propionate subQ qd, 3.7 mg T enanthate qd, 20 mcg GnRH subQ 5.25x/d, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
Test results (peak): TT: 780 ng/dL, E2: 40 pg/mL, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG 32 nMol/L

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: Nolvadex monotherapy - baseline blood results + 8 weeks later
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2017, 06:57:36 pm »


electrify

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Re: Nolvadex monotherapy - baseline blood results + 8 weeks later
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2017, 08:19:24 pm »
Are you asking how much E2 your body is metabolizing vs how much is excreted?

I'm surprised by the big jump you saw in SHBG. That's around 60% higher. Hopefully it will come down with the lower dose, as 81 nmol/L is quite high.

I think he is asking how much of the E2 he has is actually being used in the sense of how much of it is actually exerting its psychological/physical effects. Ie how much of it is actually binding to the receptors.

Problem is there actually isn't a simple way to know as we cannot yet measure things at a receptor level as far as I am aware. But this is a major issue of why T can increase on SERMS but symptoms dont get better.
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Cataceous

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Re: Nolvadex monotherapy - baseline blood results + 8 weeks later
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2017, 09:04:28 pm »
Are you asking how much E2 your body is metabolizing vs how much is excreted?

I'm surprised by the big jump you saw in SHBG. That's around 60% higher. Hopefully it will come down with the lower dose, as 81 nmol/L is quite high.

I think he is asking how much of the E2 he has is actually being used in the sense of how much of it is actually exerting its psychological/physical effects. Ie how much of it is actually binding to the receptors.

Problem is there actually isn't a simple way to know as we cannot yet measure things at a receptor level as far as I am aware. But this is a major issue of why T can increase on SERMS but symptoms dont get better.

Isn't there speculation that with Clomid you're getting too much estrogenic action in some places and not enough in others? If so then you'd need to know a lot more than how much E2 is used: Where and how much is the zuclomifene binding? The enclomifene? The estradiol?
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 09:07:55 pm by Cataceous »
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 59, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 154 lbs
Protocol: 2.8 mg T propionate subQ qd, 3.7 mg T enanthate qd, 20 mcg GnRH subQ 5.25x/d, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
Test results (peak): TT: 780 ng/dL, E2: 40 pg/mL, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG 32 nMol/L

FinnMcCool

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Re: Nolvadex monotherapy - baseline blood results + 8 weeks later
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2017, 05:15:57 am »
Are you asking how much E2 your body is metabolizing vs how much is excreted?

I'm surprised by the big jump you saw in SHBG. That's around 60% higher. Hopefully it will come down with the lower dose, as 81 nmol/L is quite high.

Yes, this is what I meant.

Regarding SHBG, would cutting out coffee help this (I'm sensitive to caffiene). I've googled how to lower this although the tips and so on I've found don't seem credible.

Cataceous

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Re: Nolvadex monotherapy - baseline blood results + 8 weeks later
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2017, 11:43:48 am »
Are you asking how much E2 your body is metabolizing vs how much is excreted?

I'm surprised by the big jump you saw in SHBG. That's around 60% higher. Hopefully it will come down with the lower dose, as 81 nmol/L is quite high.

Yes, this is what I meant.

Regarding SHBG, would cutting out coffee help this (I'm sensitive to caffiene). I've googled how to lower this although the tips and so on I've found don't seem credible.

Regarding E2 consumption, it may be possible to estimate from plasma levels, but I'd suspect other parameters are needed.

For lowering SHBG read PeakT's page on high SHBG if you haven't already. Unfortunately the natural methods may not move the number that much.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 59, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 154 lbs
Protocol: 2.8 mg T propionate subQ qd, 3.7 mg T enanthate qd, 20 mcg GnRH subQ 5.25x/d, 6.25 mg DHEA orally bid
Test results (peak): TT: 780 ng/dL, E2: 40 pg/mL, DHEA-S: 264 ug/dL (49-344)—SHBG 32 nMol/L

FinnMcCool

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Re: Nolvadex monotherapy - baseline blood results + 8 weeks later
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2017, 04:38:19 am »
For lowering SHBG read PeakT's page on high SHBG if you haven't already. Unfortunately the natural methods may not move the number that much.

Thanks - I had a good read of this page. 

If it helps others, I received this guide from my previous Doctor (http://i.picresize.com/cgzN).  From what I can tell, lowering SHBG relates to lowering stress and inflammation - stopping alcohol/caffeine/stress/etc.

I'm very keen to lower mine as I have had high levels of SHBG (and stress). 

I'm trying to give up coffee, mediate in the mornings, take vit C & D & fish oil ED, I don't smoke or drink, I work out 3x per week.  I have some body fat ('overweight' but not obese).  I'm doing many things on this list, but it's still way too high.

It should come down a bit as I half my dose of Nolva although even my baseline SHBG is at the high end of the 'normal' range. 

1. Are there any other tips or good resources on lowering SHBG? 

2. Secondly, any idea how to raise my Progesterone? (which also hovers around and dips below the low of the normal range)
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 04:52:23 am by FinnMcCool »

bbnoob25

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Re: Nolvadex monotherapy - baseline blood results + 8 weeks later
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2017, 05:44:29 pm »
Keep us posted on your progress. I haven't heard much anecdotal evidence on Nolvadex mono, and I am very interested in hearing your story!
Current protocol
Test cyp = 80mg E3.5D
hCG = 350iu 3x per week
Anastrozole = .25mg E3.5D

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Re: Nolvadex monotherapy - baseline blood results + 8 weeks later
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2017, 05:44:29 pm »