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Author Topic: 801 Total T @ 24 mg E3D Subq  (Read 10029 times)

Kierkegaard

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801 Total T @ 24 mg E3D Subq
« on: January 29, 2015, 02:27:20 am »
Yep folks, my suspicions have been true.  I tried injecting very low doses of cypionate because higher doses kept putting me over the edge with high T/E2 symptoms (insomnia, heart palpitations, increased pulse, too much energy, etc.), and here's where I'm at after a week of injecting 24 mg every three days subcutaneously (and previously injecting only 22 mg a week before):

Total T = 801 ng/dl
Free T = 20.4 pg/ml
Estradiol = 20.3 pg/ml
SHBG = ~28 nmol/L (lowest it's ever been for any dose)

So I'm finally within reach of smashing this motherfucker and getting my sweet spot after starting subq.

Why are my levels so sensitive?  One, I'm assuming it has something to do with my relatively high DHEA, but I'm not sure.  24 mg E3D equals out to 56 mg per week, and at least one of the four studies I have on subq injections points to how lowering the injection amount is something that happens after going subq from IM, and 2-3 of the studies have around 50-60 mg subq injected once per week resulting in mid-range results (all within physiological ranges).  Like this one: https://endo.confex.com/endo/2013endo/webprogram/Paper9064.html

Two, it might be the amount of vitamin D I've been taking, because that's the only change in supplements since months ago when 33 mg resulted in feeling very good.  As Peak has on the main site (I think), supplementing with vitamin D can increase your total T levels by up to 200-300 ng/dl.  Maybe that's it?  It might also be the change in fish oil, from 360 mg EPA to 500 mg EPA given the change in brand that started at about the time when I seemed to be getting more sensitive to cypionate.  An only other possibility is that injecting in my belly fat results in more T than injecting in my glutes, and judging by the study I have on comparing obese and non-obese women given HCG injections, your amount of overall bodyfat determines how sensitive you are to HCG, but *maybe* it's the case that it's the fat at the injection site and not overall bodyfat level.  Who knows?

So let this be a hope for people who seem to have weird symptoms and think they've tried everything.  Consider cutting your dose and getting retested, especially if you're injecting subq (but remember that you'll see about a 40% drop in estradiol subq compared to IM).  The general sense Peak, myself, and others have noticed is that a lot of guys need to cut down on their dose when going from IM to subq.  Who knows why that is. 
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 03:12:50 am by Kierkegaard »
"The same thing that makes you live can kill you in the end." -- Neil Young

March 2014: Dx low T (158ng/dl)
September 2015: Dx hypothyroidism, other adrenal hypofunction
2016: chronic fatigue, unspecified

Depression and anxiety guide: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Help_Anxiety_Depression

PeakT

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Re: 801 Total T @ 24 mg E3D Subq
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2015, 04:16:22 am »
Wow.  Okay, that is weird K.  You set a record for a Plasma Testosterone/mg Injected Ratio!
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
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If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

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Re: 801 Total T @ 24 mg E3D Subq
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2015, 04:16:22 am »


Kierkegaard

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Re: 801 Total T @ 24 mg E3D Subq
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2015, 04:25:00 am »
Wow.  Okay, that is weird K.  You set a record for a Plasma Testosterone/mg Injected Ratio!

Yeah, tell me about it.  Makes you think of how shittacular I felt when injecting 200 mg every two weeks IM!  That put me in the stratosphere for T and E2!
"The same thing that makes you live can kill you in the end." -- Neil Young

March 2014: Dx low T (158ng/dl)
September 2015: Dx hypothyroidism, other adrenal hypofunction
2016: chronic fatigue, unspecified

Depression and anxiety guide: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Help_Anxiety_Depression

euphorixx1

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Re: 801 Total T @ 24 mg E3D Subq
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2015, 05:40:53 am »
God I wish I could do this!

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Re: 801 Total T @ 24 mg E3D Subq
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2015, 05:40:53 am »


PeakT

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Re: 801 Total T @ 24 mg E3D Subq
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2015, 06:59:12 am »
God I wish I could do this!

Yeah, I'm starting to wonder if all K needs to do is look at the vial and his testosterone will rise!
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Okian

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Re: 801 Total T @ 24 mg E3D Subq
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2015, 09:31:02 am »
God I wish I could do this!

Yeah, I'm starting to wonder if all K needs to do is look at the vial and his testosterone will rise!

:)) Power of the mind baby!!!
Age : 25
5' 7.5'' 163 lbs

Total T - 15.98 nmol/L

Free T  - 0.068 nmol/L

TSH   -  1.05 uUI/mL (0.27 - 4.2 )

Estradiol - 120.2 pmol/L

SHBG  - 6.95 nmol/L

DHEAS - 282.7 ug/dL

Free Urine Cortisol  - 388.8 nmol/24h  (100 - 379)

ACTH - 49.48 pg/mL

timmy11

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Re: 801 Total T @ 24 mg E3D Subq
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2015, 10:37:00 am »
Woke up this morning and read your first post in here and am pumped up!! Awesome, glad for you and thanks for sharing!!!

Steady

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Re: 801 Total T @ 24 mg E3D Subq
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2015, 12:39:32 pm »
Great news K. I'm sure you're on to something. I've also been gradually reducing my dosage since going SubQ. But be sure to test after more time on this new protocol. It takes 5 to 6 half lives to reach steady state and I believe that SubQ effectively increases the 8 day half life of TCyp. So maybe give it 2 months.
2/12/12 - TT=212, FT=5.3
7/15/13 - TT=876, FT=26.5, E2=17.8
9/19/13 - TT=534, FT=12.5, E2=12
12/5/2013 - TT=701, FT=18.3, E2=15.1
4/21/14 - TT=1002, E2=10.4
6/6/14 - TT=752, FT=18.1, SHBG=28, E2=14.2
7/28/14 - TT=1093, FT=30, E2=65.6b & 46s
10/22/14 - TT=1104, FT=32.6, E2=10s
4/24/15 - TT=945, FT=20.2, E2=48.6s
Prior to last labs SubQ (11/3):
TCyp 34mg & HCG 250iu M/W/F
Current Protocol SubQ:
TCyp 36mg & HCG 250iu & 0.04mg AI - M/W/F

JustAskin

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Re: 801 Total T @ 24 mg E3D Subq
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2015, 02:02:42 pm »
I have been on TRT for 3 years, and a patient of Dr. Shippen.
I use 30mg. Testosterone SubQ  E3D, that will equal 70mg. per week.  and HCG of .1cc (115iu) E3D the day before my T. shot.
My levels are basically like Kierkegaard
Testosterone = 825
E2 = 25
SHGB = 28
I have tried higher doses but it just drives up E2, As Dr. Shippen says "More is not better".
Plus I feel and sleep better at a lower dose, but it does take 6-8 weeks to even out.

Kierkegaard

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Re: 801 Total T @ 24 mg E3D Subq
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2015, 03:10:41 pm »
I have been on TRT for 3 years, and a patient of Dr. Shippen.
I use 30mg. Testosterone SubQ  E3D, that will equal 70mg. per week.  and HCG of .1cc (115iu) E3D the day before my T. shot.
My levels are basically like Kierkegaard
Testosterone = 825
E2 = 25
SHGB = 28
I have tried higher doses but it just drives up E2, As Dr. Shippen says "More is not better".
Plus I feel and sleep better at a lower dose, but it does take 6-8 weeks to even out.

How did things even out for you over the 6-8 weeks?  Right now my levels seem a little high because I'm having sleep difficulties and my pulse is a little faster!  So I'm going to try cutting to 22 mg tomorrow.  Generally I find that levels build up gradually, so that after 6-8 weeks the dose I've started on in the past that worked for me built up to high and E2 levels.
"The same thing that makes you live can kill you in the end." -- Neil Young

March 2014: Dx low T (158ng/dl)
September 2015: Dx hypothyroidism, other adrenal hypofunction
2016: chronic fatigue, unspecified

Depression and anxiety guide: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Help_Anxiety_Depression

Kierkegaard

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Re: 801 Total T @ 24 mg E3D Subq
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2015, 03:53:09 pm »
God I wish I could do this!

Yeah, I'm starting to wonder if all K needs to do is look at the vial and his testosterone will rise!

Lol.  Well, remember that my higher levels very well might be because I've taken your great advice about supplements on your site (fish oil, vitamin D, etc.).  I did start taking Turmeric recently...
"The same thing that makes you live can kill you in the end." -- Neil Young

March 2014: Dx low T (158ng/dl)
September 2015: Dx hypothyroidism, other adrenal hypofunction
2016: chronic fatigue, unspecified

Depression and anxiety guide: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Help_Anxiety_Depression

Kierkegaard

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Re: 801 Total T @ 24 mg E3D Subq
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2015, 04:02:32 pm »
Great news K. I'm sure you're on to something. I've also been gradually reducing my dosage since going SubQ. But be sure to test after more time on this new protocol. It takes 5 to 6 half lives to reach steady state and I believe that SubQ effectively increases the 8 day half life of TCyp. So maybe give it 2 months.

Interesting thoughts on the half life.  I can only go by symptoms comparing IM and subq, and so far it seems like they both have the same time frame for any symptoms if my levels are too high: 30-36 hours, which tells me they have roughly the same pharmacodynamics, i.e., peak at approximately the same time.  But who knows?  Over Spring break I'm planning on doing a three day profile by getting tested on total T each day of my injection schedule and seeing where my peak is. 
"The same thing that makes you live can kill you in the end." -- Neil Young

March 2014: Dx low T (158ng/dl)
September 2015: Dx hypothyroidism, other adrenal hypofunction
2016: chronic fatigue, unspecified

Depression and anxiety guide: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Help_Anxiety_Depression

theturducken

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Re: 801 Total T @ 24 mg E3D Subq
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2015, 04:39:38 pm »
That's some solid personal progress you got there man.  Congrats!
Age - 33

HRT Protocol:

up in the air now!

PeakT

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Re: 801 Total T @ 24 mg E3D Subq
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2015, 05:27:53 pm »
God I wish I could do this!

Yeah, I'm starting to wonder if all K needs to do is look at the vial and his testosterone will rise!

Lol.  Well, remember that my higher levels very well might be because I've taken your great advice about supplements on your site (fish oil, vitamin D, etc.).  I did start taking Turmeric recently...

Dont think those would do it.

Turmeric can lower ferrirtin per a post by Sam.  I stopped taking the extract because of it.  I do put curry on my food every day tho...
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

VinnAY

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Re: 801 Total T @ 24 mg E3D Subq
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2015, 07:58:07 pm »
Serious questions for you:
Is it coincidental that 801 you feel as good as you could? Optimized? For you? Why not TT @ 950? Or 1150? What is precluding you from seeking higher T levels? If not, would 700 be great for YOU?
On that alone, I get your E2 is fine, your SHBG is fine and everything seems nominally controlled. Nothing beats your apparent happines.
I just can't figure out to what end people choose a lower dose and lower numbers, and yet others opt for higher dosages and higher numbers.
Everything seems to PERSONAL that it's tough to navigate and know what works until you really get in tune with YOURSELF.

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: 801 Total T @ 24 mg E3D Subq
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2015, 07:58:07 pm »